Pure Direct vs Stereo

3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Direct/pure direct is different than no room correction. Turning Audyssey off or using "bypass L/R" still utilizes a lot of the processing in the receiver (besides just room correction). Direct and Pure Direct bypass these additional processing steps giving a sound that is closer to what is on the source.
Exactly!! It eliminates all DSP like RC and bass management... the sole excpetion being the D/A converters at the input stage. This is how it is with my Yamaha as well. I think my confusion lies in the fact that he mentioned that he turns off Auddessy and I thought this is only possible through Pure Direct Mode and not stereo mode. On my Yammy, Stereo mode still engagaes RC.... ermm and yes I can turn it off seperately. This thread made me re read my owners manual.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Doesn't pure Direct by pass Audessy? On my Yamaha, Pure Direct eliminates all post processing like bass management and room correction, hence the confusion. See my next post on this thread. You will understand why I was confused. :)
To clarify:

Before - NO AUDYSSEY
After -NO AUDYSSEY

So Audyssey was never in the discussion. Audyssey ON vs Audyssey OFF was never even compared.

Before - STEREO/ NO AUDYSSEY
After - DIRECT/ NO AUDYSSEY

So we are just comparing Stereo vs Direct modes.

Direct modes automatically bypass Audyssey. But you can still manually bypass Audyssey even in Stereo mode.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Exactly!! It eliminates all DSP like RC and bass management.
Thats part of the discussion. It appears that on Marantz (still checking on SR-6006) & Denon (at least 3312 & up) even in Pure Direct Mode, you can still get subwoofer output. I don't know if this is called "bass management" or just "simple bass output".

The fact is, you can get subwoofer output even in PD/D on at least some Marantz & Denon, but you can't with Onkyo & Yamaha, etc.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Thats part of the discussion. It appears that on Marantz (still checking on SR-6006) & Denon (at least 3312 & up) even in Pure Direct Mode, you can still get subwoofer output. I don't know if this is called "bass management" or just "simple bass output".

The fact is, you can get subwoofer output even in PD/D on at least some Marantz & Denon, but you can't with Onkyo & Yamaha, etc.
My Yamahas have a Straight mode. It doesn't bypass LFE or YPAO but those can be switched off. I'm not sure how this compairs to what you are doing but felt it was worth a mention. It does bypass more than stereo mode, but not as much as Pure direct does.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
Thats part of the discussion. It appears that on Marantz (still checking on SR-6006) & Denon (at least 3312 & up) even in Pure Direct Mode, you can still get subwoofer output. I don't know if this is called "bass management" or just "simple bass output".

The fact is, you can get subwoofer output even in PD/D on at least some Marantz & Denon, but you can't with Onkyo & Yamaha, etc.

From BatPIG over at AVS who's pretty much is a Denon 4311 guru.

"" Can you explain more about DIRECT and PURE DIRECT modes, and how they differ from STEREO mode?
The major difference is that, when in DIRECT and PURE DIRECT modes, the receiver bypasses most (or all) of the additional processing circuitry such as Tone Controls (bass/treble) and Bass Management. Theoretically, bypassing or shutting off any unneeded circuitry should deliver slightly "purer" audio quality; in practice, you may or may not hear a difference.
If you look in Denon's manuals, they quote their S/N ratio specs in DIRECT mode, which implies that DIRECT will have a slightly lower noise floor than regular STEREO mode.
The key functional difference for most setups is that, when in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode, the speakers are treated as large regardless of how you set things up in the 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu.
The only difference between DIRECT and PURE DIRECT mode is that PURE DIRECT shuts off all the video circuitry, including the display on the receiver itself. Note that if you use PURE DIRECT with an HDMI source, the video will still remain on as the receiver needs to keep the HDMI circuitry active to process the audio. In other respects they are the same; PURE DIRECT and DIRECT share all settings, including surround parameters, subwoofer mode, channel levels, etc.
To set up audio for 2-channel listening, you need to use the 2CH DIRECT/STEREO menu found under MANUAL SETUP > AUDIO SETUP. However, because of the quirks of DIRECT and PURE DIRECT modes, the settings are not always obvious in how they function. In typical Denon fashion, the settings do NOT apply equally to STEREO and DIRECT modes! Here is a summary of the behavior of this special sub menu:

When in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode:
- "Small" vs. "Large" is ignored (the front speakers are always treated as "large")
- The subwoofer will be active only if the LFE+<st1:place w:st="on">MAIN</st1lace> setting is on, and it will be "double bass" because the front speakers will be treated as "large". ** note that you can still have the sub set to LFE in the "normal" subwoofer setup menu, this is just referring to the "2CH DIRECT/STEREO" settings
- The "crossover" frequency effectively functions as an LPF (low pass filter) for the subwoofer's "double bass", but does NOT affect the fronts (again, because of the first bullet point). The "crossover" thus effectively becomes an upper limit or "cap" for the double bass effect. So a good strategy is to set the "crossover" to where your front speakers naturally roll off, to try and get a smooth "blend" despite the double bass. """"""

Well. interesting
 
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RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
The only difference between DIRECT and PURE DIRECT mode is that PURE DIRECT shuts off all the video circuitry, including the display on the receiver itself. Note that if you use PURE DIRECT with an HDMI source, the video will still remain on as the receiver needs to keep the HDMI circuitry active to process the audio. In other respects they are the same; PURE DIRECT and DIRECT share all settings, including surround parameters, subwoofer mode, channel levels, etc.
I have read that before.
There are some "marketing features" at work here as well.

For example:

- Pure Direct turns off the small and large LCD displays to improve sound. But you can use the status command and activate them for a few seconds and there is no change in the sound quality.

- The Web interface did not allow you to change the Output settings in Pure Direct mode. However, you can change these setitngs with the iPad app or
with the web app in Pure Direct mode if you enter the menu in another mode then switch to Pure Direct. In the new firmware for the AV8801 the web interface operates properly in Pure Direct mode.

- All Video processing enabled in the Output settings for any HDMI are always active, so Pure Direct turns off nothing.

So Changing from Pure Direct to Direct does something and I can hear the difference, but I think you have to speak Japanese to find out what it may be.

If you actually want to turn off additional video processing that can be done by:
+ Disabling Lip-Sync
+ Disabling HDMI Pass-thru and HDMI control
+ Turning Off Video Conversion
+ Setting the Video Mode to Game

DeRemote is a pretty I-thing app to control the Marantz (and other DM things) and change the settings on the fly.

If you want to play, Toggle the Video mode between Game and Auto... ;)
I can measure about a 1 watt increase at the wall between the two.
There is a slight difference, even when using the 7.1 analog inputs.

Now before I get flamed to death, It is Marantz, not I, that claims disabling video processing *may* improve the sound.
I am just telling you how to do it.

Again, Pure Direct, Direct, or not any other setting disables video processing on any input that is using an HDMI connection, regardless of the Audio input selection. The Video processing and other DSP are the big power hogs in the preamp. That is where all the heat comes from.

- Rich
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My Yamahas have a Straight mode. It doesn't bypass LFE or YPAO but those can be switched off. I'm not sure how this compairs to what you are doing but felt it was worth a mention. It does bypass more than stereo mode, but not as much as Pure direct does.
I've never owned Yamaha, so that is the first time I have ever heard of that mode (Straight). :D

So does Yamaha have a Direct or Pure Direct mode as well?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Perhaps it is simply "double bass" and nothing else. :D

Perhaps it is something more.

I'm not 100% certain as usual. :D

The only thing I am sure of is that I love the sound from my Linkwitz Orion3 + RBH SX-1010N + AT6012 (now with front metal handles :D) in Direct & Pure Direct mode w/ my new setting in my Denon AVR-5308CI. I will see how this goes with my Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF 201/2.

The Orion does have true BIPOLAR BASS, which is DIFFERENT than most mono-polar bass. So I don't know.

I can't speaker for anyone else, and I never do or will. Perhaps someone else will also benefit from this, perhaps not.
 
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gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
I've never owned Yamaha, so that is the first time I have ever heard of that mode (Straight). :D

So does Yamaha have a Direct or Pure Direct mode as well?
Mine have 2ch, Straight and Pure Direct.

2ch - All processing in play. Even turns multi-channel into 2ch.
Straight - What comes in = what goes out + LFE & EQ (but these can be switched off) I use this more than any other setting. It's great for 5.1 or 2.1.
Pure Direct - 2 ch only. All processing is off. No EQ. No LFE. Even the lights go off. If I feed it multi-channel input, there is no output at all. (not sure if this can be changed with settings of some kind. Never tried. Edit: Maybe analog multi-ch input would function)
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Mine have 2ch, Straight and Pure Direct.

2ch - All processing in play. Even turns multi-channel into 2ch.
Straight - What comes in = what goes out + LFE & EQ (but these can be switched off) I use this more than any other setting. It's great for 5.1 or 2.1.
Pure Direct - 2 ch only. All processing is off. No EQ. No LFE. Even the lights go off. If I feed it multi-channel input, there is no output at all. (not sure if this can be changed with settings of some kind. Never tried. Edit: Maybe analog multi-ch input would function)
After reading the manual, I found that straight does two channel to two channel and multichannel to multichannel. It doesn't convert multichannel to two channel. The Stereo DSP does multichannel to 2 channel conversion, at least on my RX-V1800. Straight does leave all the DSP processing on however. I also have similar results in Direct as you do. When I get home tonight, I'll unplug the analog cables from by BluRay player and just have HDMI out feeding my receiver and hit Pure Direct to see if I get any sound coming out. I did this once before but I can't remember the results. :eek:
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I've never owned Yamaha, so that is the first time I have ever heard of that mode (Straight). :D

So does Yamaha have a Direct or Pure Direct mode as well?
Based on what your saying about your Denon, I would say that Direct = Yamaha's straight and Pure Direct are the same for both.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Based on what your saying about your Denon, I would say that Direct = Yamaha's straight and Pure Direct are the same for both.
Pure Direct allows subwoofer output on my Denon AVP-A1HDCI. I set my XO @ 80Hz. I think it sends all signal below 80Hz (possibly as high as 100Hz) to my subwoofers.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for your help in this. Model is Marantz SR6006, I don't see any menu to setup direct/pure direct. Everything I've read says that in either of these modes user/Audyssey settings are overridden, L/R are set to large and the crossover is disabled.

Yes, sub is LFE+main.
I'm trying to download the manual for the SR6006. Just based on the price, I assume it's comparable to the Denon 3312/3313?

Menu--> Manual Setup --> Audio Setup --> 2Ch/Direct: Custom, Small/Large/ XO, LFE+Main, Distance...

Okay, well, I looked at the SR6006 manual. It does say that Pure Direct allows for subwoofer output if you set Sub to LFE+Main. But I cannot locate anywhere on the manual regarding the Audio 2Ch/Direct setup.

If you have set Speakers to SMALLl + 80Hz XO + LFE+MAIN, and cannot find the Audio 2Ch/Direct/Custom setup, I don't know what else you can do.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Pure Direct allows subwoofer output on my Denon AVP-A1HDCI. I set my XO @ 80Hz. I think it sends all signal below 80Hz (possibly as high as 100Hz) to my subwoofers.
I guess my pure direct is more pure than yours :D I loose bass management as well when going pure direct.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I tell you one thing. Pure Direct 2.1 makes me sound like a Rock star on karaoke. :eek: :cool:
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I guess my pure direct is more pure than yours :D I loose bass management as well when going pure direct.
Either more pure or just less capable. All equivocal or inexplicable. :D
 
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G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
For me on the yamaha's the lack of bass management is a killer. I would really like to use it since I run a slight EQ for TV/Movie [which is most of my use] and it would be convenient to just hit pure direct to disable it for music. Any additional benefits after that would be great.

There is one ridiculous issue with pure direct on my receiver though. The display turns off (woo?), and in it's place to inform you that you are listening to the purest tone possible a very bright blue LED lights on the front panel. It's incredibly distracting.

Mine have 2ch, Straight and Pure Direct.

2ch - All processing in play. Even turns multi-channel into 2ch.
Straight - What comes in = what goes out + LFE & EQ (but these can be switched off) I use this more than any other setting. It's great for 5.1 or 2.1.
Pure Direct - 2 ch only. All processing is off. No EQ. No LFE. Even the lights go off. If I feed it multi-channel input, there is no output at all. (not sure if this can be changed with settings of some kind. Never tried. Edit: Maybe analog multi-ch input would function)
Interesting, my rx-v-675 and my father's (cant remember model, slightly newer than mine) both accept DD in pure direct.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
For me on the yamaha's the lack of bass management is a killer. I would really like to use it since I run a slight EQ for TV/Movie [which is most of my use] and it would be convenient to just hit pure direct to disable it for music. Any additional benefits after that would be great.

There is one ridiculous issue with pure direct on my receiver though. The display turns off (woo?), and in it's place to inform you that you are listening to the purest tone possible a very bright blue LED lights on the front panel. It's incredibly distracting.



Interesting, my rx-v-675 and my father's (cant remember model, slightly newer than mine) both accept DD in pure direct.
By lack of bass amangement, you mean on a per channel basis or is it when using pure direct?
 
G

Grador

Audioholic Field Marshall
By lack of bass amangement, you mean on a per channel basis or is it when using pure direct?
Should have specified, rephrasing: The lack of bass management in pure direct makes it useless for me
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Interesting, my rx-v-675 and my father's (cant remember model, slightly newer than mine) both accept DD in pure direct.
I also get DD, DTS, DTS-HD MA, & Dolby TrueHD with Pure Direct & Direct.
 

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