Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
This sounds very reasonable, and someone with the experience and sheer intelligence of JA should have made that comment, and not supposing "slow bass" that he's often heard from transmission line designs.
He probably grabbed a quick "gut-bomb" burrito for breakfast that was compromising his patience!
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This sounds very reasonable, and someone with the experience and sheer intelligence of JA should have made that comment, and not supposing "slow bass" that he's often heard from transmission line designs.
Too be fair, at these shows in hotels, it can be difficult to come away with a clear impression of how a speaker sounds. The unusual dimensions of the mainly small hotel rooms tends to make many speakers sound boringly ho-hum. I had trouble with that, and I imagine someone like John Atkinson may have also. I found that something (anything) had to grab my attention before I paid enough close attention to hear how the speakers, and not the room, sounded. That's why so many vendors try hard to make their display have a visual aspect that grabs your attention.

The speaker cables that Dennis had looked quite normal to the eye. Only with my camera (when I used the"Excited-State Plasma" setting) were the unique nature of these cables revealed :D.

I think people may have missed this link to a number of other photos I took at CAF 2012. There are several more views of the Phils with the "Excited-State Plasma" speaker cables :D.

Also in the photos were speakers designed by AJinFla. (At work, I can't open the Photoshop link I provided, so I'll have to try and describe them.) They are black speakers with what looks like a 12" or 15" driver mounted on a tripod (3 steel legs) standing above a large cubic black box. They are most unusual, and I'm afraid my photo failed to capture their dipole design. There was a second small driver mounted behind them facing the rear. And the black box underneath contained a large (18"?) driver that was also a dipole - open at the front and rear. I took some time to talk with him and found him interesting and entertaining. His speakers sounded very good.

I also want to praise all the people who displayed at the CAF. They have unusual patience for all the wacky people (who think they are audiophiles) that they meet. Many had their own CDs with them - some music was interesting and even entertaining and some was dreadful. I guess that's to be expected. Dennis described one very serious guy who was dragging around his own set of very high-priced solid sliver speaker cables. He apparently asked every speaker displayer to attach his cables so he could hear the speakers properly :D :D :D. I wish I had seen that!
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Dennis,

What configuring were you running the midrange chambers for the show?
Guess I missed this. I just lightly filled the front half. In a room that large, the rear wave has plenty of room to work.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Too be fair, at these shows in hotels, it can be difficult to come away with a clear impression of how a speaker sounds. The unusual dimensions of the mainly small hotel rooms tends to make many speakers sound boringly ho-hum. I had trouble with that, and I imagine someone like John Atkinson may have also. I found that something (anything) had to grab my attention before I paid enough close attention to hear how the speakers, and not the room, sounded. That's why so many vendors try hard to make their display have a visual aspect that grabs your attention.

[snip]

I also want to praise all the people who displayed at the CAF. They have unusual patience for all the wacky people (who think they are audiophiles) that they meet. Many had their own CDs with them - some music was interesting and even entertaining and some was dreadful. I guess that's to be expected. Dennis described one very serious guy who was dragging around his own set of very high-priced solid sliver speaker cables. He apparently asked every speaker displayer to attach his cables so he could hear the speakers properly :D :D :D. I wish I had seen that!
This is all indicative of why I stopped going to shows. The only good reason left is that you get the chance to meet a few interesting people behind the products in person and chat, assuming they aren't too burnt out by the time you get to them.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
More photos of CAF are here. There were some other nice sounding speakers. None were nicer sounding than the Phils and all were much more expensive.
I wasn't completely sure what the new sloped front would look like. Thanks for this photo:




Looks good, but I think it was a good call to remove the slope from the back on future cabinets!
 
M

M S

Enthusiast
I met Dennis at DIY Iowa a few years back and I thought he looked more like a "westerner" than an "easterner" :D

Dennis certainly is better at speaker stunts than Clint!

Marv

LOL, Dennis is Clint's stunt-double!!!



 
J

jcunwired

Audioholic
I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's looking like I am going to be able to pick up my speakers this Friday. Yippee! Dennis sent me the suite of charts from the custom 2's yesterday evening, here's the important one:
 

Attachments

D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's looking like I am going to be able to pick up my speakers this Friday. Yippee! Dennis sent me the suite of charts from the custom 2's yesterday evening, here's the important one:
Actually, the important one may be the 15-20 degrees off axis. That's the direct sound you'll hear if you don't toe them in (which you shouldn't). I'm still on schedule for Friday, although there's a storm brewing and it could get very dark here.
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
Hey Dennis,

I've seen a dip at Two-Hundred-something hertz on at least 3 pairs of Phil's (My pair have a 5db dip at ~220hz on-axis which becomes a 10db dip 45 degrees off-axis). what causes this dip? To be fair, it's not exactly an issue. I'm simply curious. :)

Thanks Dennis!

To be honest, I just realized I have a "±" button on my phone and I really want to use "±" it in a sentence now...this is that sentence.
 
J

jcunwired

Audioholic
From my chart the further off axis the smoother it gets in this region, where at 40 degrees it is flatter.
 
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J

jcunwired

Audioholic
Actually, the important one may be the 15-20 degrees off axis. That's the direct sound you'll hear if you don't toe them in (which you shouldn't). I'm still on schedule for Friday, although there's a storm brewing and it could get very dark here.
Thanks. At least in my charts the difference is very slight between on axis and 15 degree off axis.

SNAG-024.png
 
D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Hey Dennis,

I've seen a dip at Two-Hundred-something hertz on at least 3 pairs of Phil's (My pair have a 5db dip at ~220hz on-axis which becomes a 10db dip 45 degrees off-axis). what causes this dip? To be fair, it's not exactly an issue. I'm simply curious. :)
Good question. My measurement software is anechoic from about 300 Hz on up. That is, what you see is the inherent response of the speaker, not the room. Unless you have a mega-buck, mega-size anechoic chamber, you can't do anechoic measurements much below 300 Hz. The sampling window is to short, and the wave lengths start getting too long (two few cycles per second) to be captured accurately by the software. You run out of resolution. My software has a feature that lets you transition to a room response below 300 Hz, and in that region you start to see room effects. The sharp dip at 220 Hz is a floor bounce cancellation, where the sound waves hit the floor and rebound out of phase. Where exactly that occurs, and to what degree depends on the location of the woofer to the floor, and the mic to the speaker. The only way to avoid cancellations like that is to place the woofer right next to the floor, which causes other problems. It's very controversial whether you can hear floor bounce cancellations.

Now, if I were dumb enough to show you the full measured response down to 20 Hz, you would see even more prominent cancellations, and a room mode bass peak around 70 Hz. That's just the nature of speakers in rooms. I used to publish the full response, but it was a nightmare explaining all of the ups and downs you see below 300 Hz. So I cut it at 200 Hz, which shows the beginning of the room response region.
 
Gordonj

Gordonj

Full Audioholic
Good question. My measurement software is anechoic from about 300 Hz on up. That is, what you see is the inherent response of the speaker, not the room. Unless you have a mega-buck, mega-size anechoic chamber, you can't do anechoic measurements much below 300 Hz. The sampling window is to short, and the wave lengths start getting too long (two few cycles per second) to be captured accurately by the software. You run out of resolution. My software has a feature that lets you transition to a room response below 300 Hz, and in that region you start to see room effects. The sharp dip at 220 Hz is a floor bounce cancellation, where the sound waves hit the floor and rebound out of phase. Where exactly that occurs, and to what degree depends on the location of the woofer to the floor, and the mic to the speaker. The only way to avoid cancellations like that is to place the woofer right next to the floor, which causes other problems. It's very controversial whether you can hear floor bounce cancellations.

Now, if I were dumb enough to show you the full measured response down to 20 Hz, you would see even more prominent cancellations, and a room mode bass peak around 70 Hz. That's just the nature of speakers in rooms. I used to publish the full response, but it was a nightmare explaining all of the ups and downs you see below 300 Hz. So I cut it at 200 Hz, which shows the beginning of the room response region.
Hey Dennis what software are you using for testing? Just curious...

Gordon
 
monkish54

monkish54

Audioholic General
Good question. My measurement software is anechoic from about 300 Hz on up. That is, what you see is the inherent response of the speaker, not the room. Unless you have a mega-buck, mega-size anechoic chamber, you can't do anechoic measurements much below 300 Hz. The sampling window is to short, and the wave lengths start getting too long (two few cycles per second) to be captured accurately by the software. You run out of resolution. My software has a feature that lets you transition to a room response below 300 Hz, and in that region you start to see room effects. The sharp dip at 220 Hz is a floor bounce cancellation, where the sound waves hit the floor and rebound out of phase. Where exactly that occurs, and to what degree depends on the location of the woofer to the floor, and the mic to the speaker. The only way to avoid cancellations like that is to place the woofer right next to the floor, which causes other problems. It's very controversial whether you can hear floor bounce cancellations.

Now, if I were dumb enough to show you the full measured response down to 20 Hz, you would see even more prominent cancellations, and a room mode bass peak around 70 Hz. That's just the nature of speakers in rooms. I used to publish the full response, but it was a nightmare explaining all of the ups and downs you see below 300 Hz. So I cut it at 200 Hz, which shows the beginning of the room response region.
Ahhh gotcha! I thought it was anechoic from 200hz + :p

Thanks Dennis!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Would you all be so kind to save me from perusing 169 pages of posts to find this out (because I think it's been discussed :eek:) - are there existing, or plans to make, bookshelf versions and a center channel? I don't do much two-channel listening anymore, but I use my home theater system all of the time. The top portion of the Phils intrigues me, but the bottom looks too deep for where I'd want them.

Thanks!
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
No more center, all center request go to Jim Salk from now on.

Bookshelves are available Philharmonitor

Currently I'm using an NHT center and I think it mates pretty well to Phils for movie watching if the Salk option is too steep.
 
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