Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Irvrobinson]

The reason for question is that the Phil's have low enough extension to wonder about needing EQ for bass modes. It wasn't an issue with the SongTowers, and I guess the subs I run with them are about equivalent with the Phil's bass, so I should be okay.
Sometimes you need to ask the question before you can think it through!

The point of using subs with full-range speakers is to even out the bass response with multiple sources, to place the subs in the optimal locations for bass while the mains go in the optimal locations for imaging, and as a bonus you a bass level control. Most of us run our subs a little hot, just out of preference.

 

[mr littlejeans]

Dennis said you can still buy the $3000 "old" cabinets.

It is $3500 only if you want the "new" cabinets.

I think the $3,000 version looks just fine to me.

Maybe Dennis should label them v.3.0 & v3.5.

Actually, I think the old style are going up as well after Capfest. My understanding was that the new style were going to be $3,500 and the old style were going to be $200 cheaper so would be $3,300 now.

 

[M S]

Actually, I think the old style are going up as well after Capfest. My understanding was that the new style were going to be $3,500 and the old style were going to be $200 cheaper so would be $3,300 now.

The Phil 3 page states:
"......Cabinets for the Philharmonic 3 are made to order domestically with the customer’s choice of veneer. The Philharmonic 3 is priced at $3,000 a pair in standard veneers such as cherry or maple. More expensive veneers are available at additional cost. The base price of $3,000 will be honored for all orders placed before the Capital Audio Show, which begins on July 13, 2012. Starting July 13, the base price will increase to $3,500 a pair."

It does not make any distinction between old or new enclosure style, so you have to assume the price hike is universal?

Marv

 

[M S]

Atten. ADTG and Irvrobinson

I noticed your Salon 2 tweeters are well above typical ear level--6 or 8 inches higher than the Phil 3 in ADTG's pics. Do you notice the difference when listening? Do you think it matters much?

I ask because I am considering a design with tweeter height a few inches above the norm.

Thanks,
Marv

 

[KEW]

The Phil 3 page states:
"......Cabinets for the Philharmonic 3 are made to order domestically with the customer’s choice of veneer. The Philharmonic 3 is priced at $3,000 a pair in standard veneers such as cherry or maple. More expensive veneers are available at additional cost. The base price of $3,000 will be honored for all orders placed before the Capital Audio Show, which begins on July 13, 2012. Starting July 13, the base price will increase to $3,500 a pair."

It does not make any distinction between old or new enclosure style, so you have to assume the price hike is universal?

Marv

Mr. Littlejeans statement is consistent with what I know.
Dennis told me that I could get the new cabinet style for $3200 (I ordered before 7/13/12). It seems that the price is increasing by $300 plus it cost $200 more to produce the new cabinet design. $3500 is the new default price, but your cabinets will be made specifically for your order, so it wouldn't be a surprise if you could decline the new design and save $200.
Email Dennis, if you want to know for sure.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I noticed your Salon 2 tweeters are well above typical ear level--6 or 8 inches higher than the Phil 3 in ADTG's pics. Do you notice the difference when listening? Do you think it matters much?

I ask because I am considering a design with tweeter height a few inches above the norm.

Thanks,
Marv

I have never noticed much of a difference in spectral balance between standing and sitting. In Stereophile's measurements, John Atkinson found that the Salon 2's tweeter had very good vertical dispersion. Perhaps GranteedEV could educate us on whether or not that waveguide the tweeter sits in helps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I noticed your Salon 2 tweeters are well above typical ear level--6 or 8 inches higher than the Phil 3 in ADTG's pics. Do you notice the difference when listening? Do you think it matters much?

Does not matter to me. All seamless smooth sound. And I actually usually lie down on my lounge chair to listen.

But standing up, sitting up, or lying down - always sound great. Great vertical off-axis.

 

[GranteedEV]

Well I'm sure the waveguide keeps the tweeter from ""flaring"" well-off-axis at the reflection points, but overall things like this are moreso a testament to the:

1) very high reflected to direct ratio of the salon 2. Because of this, regardless of whether you sit or stand, you tend to hear mostly the reflected sound power response, which is an average of all the reflected sound. In a super-audiophile padded-room, you may hear more direct sound and thus more change in sound when you stand up.

2) high order crossovers between acoustically small drivers with sufficiently tight driver spacing. Take a look at the vertical off axis of the salon 2:

Compare to a speaker that uses second order slopes, with a higher crossover point, the Genesis II.5 for example:

Finally, there's the simple fact that the tweeter on the salon 2 is really, really high up. So you're basically less off-axis when standing up

 

[Swerd]

At the Capital Audio Fest yesterday, I heard Revel Salon 2s. Because these speakers have been mentioned a number of times in this thread, I was interested in hearing them.

I listened for a short while and overall, I thought they sounded very good. For what its worth, the hotel room was very narrow and I could easily tell that the sound changed as I changed position. I think I could hear sound splashing off the side walls unless I sat in the very center. Standing up, they sounded brighter than if I sat.

I would have listened longer, but the people who ran that room started telling me how they worked hard to customize the sound of those speakers to that room with their room treatments and speaker cables. I quickly found the door.

I mentioned the Salon 2s to Dennis Murphy, but he was tired and punchy late Saturday afternoon. He worked his room alone all day. I hope he'll find the time to listen to them on Sunday.

Here is Dennis Murphy earlier that day, by his speakers: Phil 3 (new cabinet in mahogany) and Phil 2 (black).

Shortly after I took that photo, Dennis pointed out someone who had been sitting in the front center, took pictures, and wrote in a notebook for about 10 or 15 minutes. He was John Atkinson of some well-known audio magazine (the name escapes me now).

More photos of CAF are here. There were some other nice sounding speakers. None were nicer sounding than the Phils and all were much more expensive.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At the Capital Audio Fest yesterday, I heard Revel Salon 2s. Because these speakers have been mentioned a number of times in this thread, I was interested in hearing them.

I listened for a short while and overall, I thought they sounded very good. For what its worth, the hotel room was very narrow and I could easily tell that the sound changed as I changed position. I think I could hear sound splashing off the side walls unless I sat in the very center. Standing up, they sounded brighter than if I sat.

There were some other nice sounding speakers. None were nicer sounding than the Phils and all were much more expensive.

You just made Irvrobinson and Adam itch a little more for the Phil3.

I notice the Soundfield Audio 1812 Overture was also there.

As I've said before, the Salon2 does not sound better than Phil3 IMO. The Orion & KEF Reference speakers don't sound better than Phil3 either IMO.

Okay, Dennis, extend the $3,000 price for the Phil3 old cabinet another week for these guys.

 

[GranteedEV]

That veneer on that Phil is reallly nice. It's the first veneered phil i've liked. The vertical grains make it look tall and in-charge.

Until now my favorite was that white philharmonic on the website, (not including acudeftechguy's "cabinets cost me more than you paid alogether" candy apple reds.)

 

[KEW]

Until now my favorite was that white philharmonic on the website, (not including acudeftechguy's "cabinets cost me more than you paid alogether" candy apple reds.)

FWIW, I think the "white" speaker is Maple in an overexposed photo. My guess is the same speaker is in all three pics below (yeah, that is how obsessively I have been looking at these to pick out my color/finish!):

 

[KEW]

GranteedEV,

As a spin off of the "how much is too much" discussion in the XPR-5 thread, what is your assessment of ample power for the Phil2 and the Phil3?
(3000 cu. ft. room if it is relevant)
Thanks,
Kurt

 

[fuzz092888]

FWIW, I think the "white" speaker is Maple in an overexposed photo. My guess is the same speaker is in all three pics below (yeah, that is how obsessively I have been looking at these to pick out my color/finish!):

Not obsessively enough

White Phils

 

[KEW]

Not obsessively enough

White Phils

Ha!
Cool!
Are those yours?

 

[fuzz092888]

Ha!
Cool!
Are those yours?

Nope, this pair is mine and yes those are little stuffed bears sitting on top. I use them as room treatment

 

[KEW]

I like the off-center location of the nameplate!

 

[GranteedEV]

GranteedEV,

As a spin off of the "how much is too much" discussion in the XPR-5 thread, what is your assessment of ample power for the Phil2 and the Phil3?
(3000 cu. ft. room if it is relevant)
Thanks,
Kurt

The Phil 2 is 84.5db/w/m. In order to hit around 100db @ about 10 feet away you're probably looking at an amp that can deliver around 350w @ 4 ohm. It's possible that 97db peaks or 175w @ 4 ohm - is probably just enough - but I don't think the extra headroom would hurt

I would NOT use Phil 2s for movie watching at reference level as that extra 5db of headroom would require around 1100 watts @ 4 ohm. There are better speakers for movie watching. watching movies a few db below reference level still works, though. Again I would stick to around 7db below reference. Dialogue may be a bit quiet.

The Phil 3 is 82db/w/m so that means those numbers above become 600, 300, and 1900 watts respectively.

 

[Swerd]

As a spin off of the "how much is too much" discussion in the XPR-5 thread, what is your assessment of ample power for the Phil2 and the Phil3? (3000 cu. ft. room if it is relevant)

Kurt

Yesterday at the CAF the Phils were displayed in room 24×25×8. I clearly remember this from last year when I brought a tape measure because I knew someone would ask. That's about 4800 cu. ft. They were driven by two different AVA power amps, the Fetvalve 600R at 300 wpc, and the Synergy 450 at 225 wpc. Both ratings are with 8 ohm loads. The smaller amp at 225 wpc was easily more than enough.

 

[fuzz092888]

I like the off-center location of the nameplate!

Thanks, I really wanted to nameplate on there, but really did not want it centered on the bottom.

After being told "that looks stupid" and asked "what are you doing?" about 8 different times by the lady of the house I ended up there with them, the right one is on the lower right corner so I can tell which is which

I mean, I do technically have two different tweeters so I figured this would help distinguish.