Sell me on a real 5.1 system VS AiO kit.

[markw]

Which is exactly why i suggested keeping the logitechs for games and adding some decent monitors for music.

As of late, it seems that some people are posting just to post rather than to get real solutions to imagined problems.

 

[BMXTRIX]

He's the guy trying to sell you on an Onkyo HTIB system you would probably think is worse than what you have now.

There's seems to be a bit of vehemence from people posting here which is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how much research you've done with the Onkyo HTiB packages, but their value for the money is very good and their receivers, while entry level, still produce solid sound. It's a 'bang for the buck' product and by the reviews of people who are upgrading their systems from cheap computer speakers (like the original poster) or their TV speakers, people are exceedingly satisfied with the upgrade.

Now, we can get like audiophiles or we can be helpful within the budget and with the request of the OP. It really seems like people are more butt hurt that the guy WANTS 5.1, and doesn't just immediately get stereo speakers and listen to music all day long. I see more people post unhelpful information on forums when they ignore the original request then those who spend the time to provide a complete answer to the question.

I think the Boston Acoustics speakers linked won't be significantly better than the ones which will come with the Onkyo HTiB. Most of the Onkyo HTiB have a subwoofer which is admirable for the cash and is one of the better points of their systems.

This post is a bit dated, but still has some good information and advice in it for the OP...
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/home-theater-gear/79806-build-your-own-htib-400-800-a.html

 

[fuzz092888]

Vehemence isn't necessarily bad, it's akin to being fervent or passionate or perhaps intense.

Now if you were to say some remarks have been a bit venomous, or maybe a little malicious, pernicious, acrimonious or just plain unkind then you may be on to something.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would be very interested in hearing how these sound, the reviews of buyers has been excellent...

For only $49.07 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 8 Inches 3-Way Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) - Black | Bookshelf Speakers

pair it with this...

For only $78.30 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 12 Inch 150 Watt Powered Subwoofer - Light Wood Finish | Subwoofers

Considering you can get 6 of them for under $200, then add their 12" sub for another $100, that would provide a 5.1 setup for about $300 shipped, with a couple hundred or so left over for a receiver.

A bit more than budget...
Newegg.com - ONKYO HT-RC360 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver

Though that Denon 1712 seems like a great value for under $200...
DENON AVR-1712 7.1 A/V Surround Receiver | Accessories4less

I would probalby jump at the 1712, and with my past experience with Monoprice speakers, I would likely take a chance, especially with their own solid reviews, on the Monoprice speakers.

A complete 5.1 setup for under $500, and room to take it to 7.1, with future growth potential right from the start.

 

[jonnythan]

There's seems to be a bit of vehemence from people posting here which is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how much research you've done with the Onkyo HTiB packages, but their value for the money is very good and their receivers, while entry level, still produce solid sound. It's a 'bang for the buck' product and by the reviews of people who are upgrading their systems from cheap computer speakers (like the original poster) or their TV speakers, people are exceedingly satisfied with the upgrade.

I'm sure they're fine for home theater, but this is for computer speakers. They just would not work well sitting on a computer desk. There's no way it would be a good option for the desk in the picture.

 

[Mkilbride]

I'm sure they're fine for home theater, but this is for computer speakers. They just would not work well sitting on a computer desk. There's no way it would be a good option for the desk in the picture.

Did mention I could wall mount them, several times.

Monoprice speakers seem good.

But even though Monoprice always has amazing, out of this world prices, those are way to good to be true.

12'', 150 Watt Subwoofer for 80$?

I just paid 160$ for a 10'' 150 Watt Subwoofer, that was on sale and I was told it was low end.

Amazon.com: Velodyne VX-11: Electronics

I'd be willing to swing with the price.

I can't see going to 1000$. That seems to be breaking into a very high price range for what I want and most likely my ears aren't as keen as you folks are to the differences.

But maybe 800$, could be my new limit.

So, I want this known now, I will set 800$, for a 5.1 Set, for the room you saw. Infact, I got a new Digital Camera.

So new pictures, trying to show the room off.

 

[jonnythan]

Wall mounting is irrelevant when your ears will be a foot from the drivers.

 

[Grador]

I'll give you another Try It Yourself, not that you've mentioned listening to anything I've said so far: Take your current speakers and put them far above you and see how it sounds. For the onkyo's to sound good you're going to need to give them a few feet, meaning putting them high up on your wall. This is going to be really subpar for many reasons.

 

[fuzz092888]

I suggest cleaning your room before you attempt to place anything anywhere.

 

[Mkilbride]

I suggest cleaning your room before you attempt to place anything anywhere.

How about new suggestions with a 800$ price tag. If there is still nothing, I give up.

 

[fuzz092888]

Look, there are plenty of suggestions in this thread. 2.0, 2.1, 4.0, 4.1 systems, HTIB systems like the ones you already have, I'm not sure theres anything else to say.

To put it succinctly, because of your distance from the speakers there is no reason to have 5 speakers all in front of you.

A quality pair of bookshelves will give you the same imaging and wide soundstage as all 5 of those speakers and take up less space.

If you want sound behind or to the sides of you, you need to put speakers there, because nothing in your price range will throw sound the way you describe, at least to my knowledge.

If you rent it is not suggested you go drilling holes in the walls, but that's up to you.

If you're set on 5 speakers, just go pick up one of those systems you mentioned in your very first post or the onkyo HTIB. It doesn't sound like you care a whole lot about how it sounds (just an observation) so any of those choices is a viable option. We've tried to help, but you seem to have your mind set and no amount of reasoning will convince you of otherwise.

Why come ask for help if you're not willing to take the advice that is given? You've misinterpreted advice that wasn't for a 5.1 system as ignoring what you've mentioned you wanted instead of taking it for what it was......pointing you in a direction that will give you better sound for the money you plan on spending.

My final bit of advice would be to just keep the system you have, you're doing more of a lateral move with another 5.1 box set, although the onkyo will give you a small bit of upgradability.

Otherwise I still say you need to clean up that room.

 

[Mkilbride]

Can you not read?

Everything you said I didn't do - I did. I responded ot them all.

I already said I would wall mount them, but there, again, you must have failed to read.

I swear this forum is full of children, with only a few actual adults. It's insults over here, then on your high horse over there.

Please go back, a page or two, re-read all my posts, then come back. I'm sick of re-answering the same questions, over and over.

 

[Grador]

You have failed to read what most people are saying. There really is plenty of advice here for all orders of setups you could go with. Whenever people ask you to specify something you get defensive and proclaim that we're not listening to you. Yes you said you were willing to wall mount, that's one answer, but it took 3 pages of thread for you to answer that you'd be mostly gaming with the setup. When people (namely myself) have suggested that for this purpose none of the options available will be helpful you either ignored or started complaining about people not listening. You have shown no desire to actually learn anything which is what would be required for you to make the proper on what to buy, instead just wanting us to tell you that what you desire is in fact correct [IT ISN'T]. I think maybe you were correct earlier when you thought you had the wrong forum, feel free to leave at any time.

 

[Mkilbride]

You have failed to read what most people are saying. There really is plenty of advice here for all orders of setups you could go with. Whenever people ask you to specify something you get defensive and proclaim that we're not listening to you. Yes you said you were willing to wall mount, that's one answer, but it took 3 pages of thread for you to answer that you'd be mostly gaming with the setup. When people (namely myself) have suggested that for this purpose none of the options available will be helpful you either ignored or started complaining about people not listening. You have shown no desire to actually learn anything which is what would be required for you to make the proper on what to buy, instead just wanting us to tell you that what you desire is in fact correct [IT ISN'T]. I think maybe you were correct earlier when you thought you had the wrong forum, feel free to leave at any time.

Yeah, if this topic can be closed, let it.

I came here to learn, to hear opinions, and facts, and get the best system for my budget and my needs.

Clearly, this is not the forum for that.

 

[fuzz092888]

Ok, but in the first post of my topic, I say 5.1 only, no 2.1 setups.

I was just looking over at that topic.

And yes, I mentioned PC Speakers VS Real speakers, even in my title. I guess I could repost the topic over there if that's the proper area.

And I've done down the route of looking at amps and self powered speakers.

If it came to that, I'd just get the AiO kit, it'd be better.

We all know what you said and we gave recommendations based on the idea that you would keep these speakers for a long time and possibly upgrade and add to the system.

Well, I read your first post and that's what I've been trying to tell you, a quality 2.1 will sound better than those 5.1 systems. A real 5.1 system is out of your price range quite frankly.

I still stand by this statement because with a good 2.1 you'll get better quality speakers and be able to add two more as your needs dictated.

If you don't mind what you currently have, it really doesn't matter now, does it?

A decent stereo system with a bass box system beats a POS 5.1 system any day, and presents much less of a placement problem.

Onkyo HT-S9400 THX 7.1 Ch Network Home Theater Receiver/Speaker | Accessories4less

Mm, someone linked me to this, pretty good price. What do you think?

No you did not respond to every single post because here is your next post after the suggestions were given.

So are you ready to act like adults now and discuss this properly?

I'd really like to get this question answered.

Just got a nice setup for my living room, 2.1, as mentioned in this thread, and would like to get a good setup for my PC now:

In this post you state that you'll be wall mounting, but insult your audience instead of having a conversation with them about why they're recommending you start with fewer speakers and not a "in box" system. Thick headed comes to mind and if you're going to talk about people insulting you, well.....if the shoe fits wear it. I'm not going to sugar coat it on my end either. I admit some of my posts were abrasive, but hardly childish.

I mainly game on my PC. 5.1 has helped me many times.

I can hear sounds that people with 2.1 setups don't, more accurate that is.

For example, I can hear guys coming from behind me, or to the side, or at an angle, ect.

Several times I've had to double check and actually look into the next room or turn my chair around because I've been tricked.

Even though these are crappy PC Speakers from like...2004, I can't imagine going away from 5.1

The benefits in gaming and how much it improves immersion is insane.

I've had several people just question me to as how I knew where they are coming due to hearing such specific sound angles. I've often been at a 4 way inter-pass in a game and could hear the exact direction the person was coming from without trying because of the directional sound. It's invaluable at times.


How could I go back to 2.1 after that?

And all the sources I use are FLAC Stereo or 5.1 or 640 . If it's Stereo, I usually upmix it. Using a combination of MPCHC + MadVR + MadFlac + ReClock for direct playback, i.e, lossless.

--------------------

I think I may be coming to the wrong site. You guys are full on audioholics, as is the forum name. I thought you'd be able to see it from other peoples perspectives, but I'll probably go ask on another audiophile forum and hope the people can understand there that I am not paying 2,000$ for a setup. I'm not looking for that kind of setup.

Well, these points were never made clear until now first of all. I'm not big into PC gaming, but as far as I know beatmatcher is right. There are very few games that actually support true 5.1 channel sound. Besides, you're not losing anything by using 4 bookshelves and a sub compared to any boxed 5.1 channel system and have only to gain in audio quality. I used to have a z5500 system, still do and you will never ever ever convince me that those things produce better sound than quality bookshelves. Not after what I've heard. To me 4 bookshelves will give you so much better sound than those crappy super directional speakers that come boxed up like that.

Don't get me wrong my z5500 served me well, especially for what it provided on a super limited college budget. Nowadays, when budget is a little more flexible, if I had my computer in a separate room from my regular HT system I would not be going back to such a thing. It would be 4 bookshelves and a sub. I'd also like to point out that from your picture (things may be different) you don't even have them set up in a position to give you good surround sound. None are mounted adjacent to you or behind you. they're all in like a wall or slightly curved position in front of you. This is not how you get good surround sound where you hear noises all around you.

I can't speak for how things in your gaming have occurred, I can only try and translate your gaming experiences to my HT experiences and from those experiences you're just not going to convince me those things were throwing sounds behind you, and if they were, not accurately. Not until I hear such a thing for myself from speakers like those.

Furthermore, none of my recommendations have been for a $2000 setup. They have all been within your budget, or close to it. I think you need to realize that you're not going to convince people, some of whom have spent many years in the audio industry, that what you're claiming is true. You claim that you can't get the sound you want from what we recommend when, that's just untrue. Not to mention you're basing your reactions to our recommendations on information that wasn't given to us.

I mean if you don't like what we have to say/don't agree, then provide factual evidence that what we're saying is wrong. If we've given you suggestions that are outside your price range quote the suggestion and say so. If you think we haven't seen things from your perspective provide some evidence. Obviously you haven't been on this website too long or looked around too hard. There are many people with budgets less than yours that members have worked with to get something worth their money. Odds are, if recommendations get made for something above budget theres a good reason. If you hold something back like what you've said above, then criticize members for suggestions that don't meet unknown criteria, well then I think that's kinda bull. If you want recommendations for something that sounds good, you're on the right website. If you only want confirmations or denials for things you've already set your mind on, then go to amazon and read reviews.

Some of us have tried to help, I know I have, and all my recommendations have been off of the information you've given. Which means I personally don't appreciate the implication that you've made.

I game on consoles and if the PC audio output is the same, which I would imagine it would be, surround sound does indeed help with "target" location. Now would a better setup improve gaming, maybe a slight bit but the sounds wouldn't need to be that accurate, it's more about location. Also, a 4.1 system (phantom center) would probably work just as well providing it was mixed properly.

Steve

I don't think you're on the wrong site. No one is recommending a $2000 audiophile system. I think you're not hearing what you want to hear so you're lashing out.

Third or so post is recommending a 2000$ system.

Others concur.

And very few games?



My room is small and the positions they are in were recommended by Dolby themselves to create a sound stage that bounces off the walls and encompasses me. It's a setup for my small room.

Somehow I highly doubt dolby recommends you place all 5 speakers basically in a straight line in front of you for encompassing sound. A link is needed with some proof. Furthermore you never provided proof a $2000 system was recommended

He didn't recommend a $2000 system, he was outlining the basic costs involved in getting something good.

I never said I wasn't a gamer. I never said anything at all about gaming. I am a gamer.

I'm not sure what you want us to say. For an on-desk PC gaming setup, an Onkyo HTIB is a very poor choice. You really need some smallish nearfield monitors for the desk - about $100 each; a halfway decent sub that doesn't suck *** - about $300; a receiver - about $250; and a pair of surround speakers - $100 to $200.

There are no "in a box" systems that will work well for your setup that aren't "computer speakers." The cheap HTiB systems are made for living rooms where you're 10 feet away from the speakers, not a computer desk. They simply won't work well at all for that. You could spend $600 on one and think "these suck more than what I had before!"

You could forgo the receiver and get two pair of A2s plus a sub and run a 4.1 setup - but that's like $700. There's no good answer to this problem in your price range, no matter how much you want there to be.

I still say that you withheld important facts about why you wanted a 5.1 system that could have helped tailor recommendations to your needs. As such you ignored suggestions, insulted other members, all because you weren't specific enough. Specificity kinda makes a difference in case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Grador]

Yeah, if this topic can be closed, let it.

I came here to learn, to hear opinions, and facts, and get the best system for my budget and my needs.

Clearly, this is not the forum for that.

You never asked anyone for reasoning why, you were not trying to learn.

 

[markw]

How about new suggestions with a 800$ price tag. If there is still nothing, I give up.

Please, do. Obviously you never heard whatever it was you wanted to hear.

 

[jonnythan]

How about new suggestions with a 800$ price tag. If there is still nothing, I give up.

A computer 5.1 system from Creative, properly positioned in the room.

Spend the rest of the money in the living room. Start with a better receiver and better speakers.

 

[Mkilbride]

A computer 5.1 system from Creative, properly positioned in the room.

Spend the rest of the money in the living room. Start with a better receiver and better speakers.

Amazon.com: Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Theater System (Set of Six, Black): Electronics

DENON AVR-591 5.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver | Accessories4less

For only $7.84 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Speaker Bracket - Black (Max 33LBS) - Set of 2 (Rev. 2.1) | Speaker Brackets

x3

= 663$

Has that Audessy thing.

 

[jonnythan]

That would be better than the Onkyo HTIB..... if you place the speakers in the right spot.

I'd actually recommend you get the 591 or 1712 and put that in your living room. Move the 1312 to the computer.

By the way...... the "surround" channels don't belong in front of you.