Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

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Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I think they are them, but the 1028 and the 1038 look alike except the 38's are larger. Regarding the a touch bright comment, like the Digm Sig V3's they also use Be tweeters. You had the S8 on your list but used only so I assume you factored in the $/perf ratio? Did you find the S8 a touch bright too? Since my "dream" ones are way our of my price range I am left with the S6 (probably stretchable to the 8), Syn One or the 1028 (pretty sure the 1038 will be way over 10K in Canada). I have listened to the Digms and the Electras but again, hard to say which one sounds better because I could not do any AB comparisons. My final choice will be based on price, specs/graphs and look. Have you seen any graphs for the 1028 or 1038 Be?

Oh, I know you were not knocking the B/M companies and neither am I knocking the smaller one/ID ones. We just have different preference due to our different situations, and locations too.:D
Hmm...Don't know if they were the 28's and 38's, but the ones in the picture are the exact ones I heard, at that very same audio show. I'm pretty sure they are the 28's.

I actually really liked the Be tweeter most of the time, but as I said it walked the line a little too frequently. It's one of the best domes I've heard, though.

A friend of mine owns the Paradigm Sig 8 v3's, so I am pretty familiar with them. In my opinion, yes, they walk that line of being a little harsh, but again, it's one of the better domes I've heard (they use the Be tweeter too). The strength of the Paradigm's is their ability to be cranked to ear bleeding levels while maintaining their composure. My friend has a huge room, and they easily fill it without having to own $10,000 monoblocks putting out 10 million watts per channel.:) Their one main weakness is the midrange, which just isn't as refined, detailed and warm and some other speaker in that price range. Compared to the Focal's, I don't know which I'd personally choose. I really need to find those RMAF notes...

The Orion now cost $15,000.:eek:
You're kidding, right? What changed? When I heard them they cost like $6000ish.

DPS & PENG will get their dream speakers. It's just a matter of time. You have to give DPS a lot of credit for trying out those Aperion speakers, which was a pain in the back for his 60 yr old retired engineer body.:D

The journey to finding the dream speakers, as Nuance will attests to, takes a lot of effort, energy, and time.

But DenPureSound will get their one day.:D

Have some faith. :D
It sure does - too much if you ask me. Most people won't bother, and that's completely fine. I've got "the sickness," as my wife calls it.:) But at least some effort needs to be put forth, and DPS needs to commit and get moving instead of bashing Republicans and posting specs (mostly meaningless ones) of every new speaker he finds. This will take hard work, and if you don't commit you won't succeed. Period.

I told DenPureSound that his next step must be to drive to Spokane, Washington, and audition KEF, Martin Logan, NHT, DefTech.
+1. He needs to go out into the real world and listen to some speakers.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Orion now cost $15,000.

You're kidding, right? What changed? When I heard them they cost like $6000ish.
It was around $6K when it was first released years ago.

Today it is $15K due to marketing (shows) & inflation.

John Atkinson wrote:

"Definitely one of my two best sounds at Axpona, along with the BAT-Scaena room, was the Orion 4 dipole speaker (from $14,750/pair with analog line-level crossover), designed by Siegfried Linkwitz and with custom enclosures made by Wood Artistry. Quad-amped with two Bryston 9B four-channel amplifiers, a Pass Labs preamp, and a Marantz CD player"

http://www.stereophile.com/content/linkwitz-lab-orion-4

Gotta pay for those Bryston amps & Pass Labs preamp. I'm surprised they didn't use those expensive pretty Marantz Reference gold preamp, monoblocks, & universal CD player. They would have taken FIRST place.:D
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Dream Speakers at Around $1.5K

Here they are for a Real Treat and Dream Speaker - who needs to drive anywhere - 30 Day trial, just like the Product of the Year Award at AH, the Aperion VGT's :( What a big joke those things are, just a beautiful cabinet, and a very nice mid-range, but nothing else, and many others are saying the same thing about them.

Bose 901 Speaker System

Since 1968 and still making them, and with over 350 enhancements -- just like my VW Bug, and it is still running!

With all the Phil 2/3's now delivered out there, is there even one review from an owner of them yet? If not, how come?
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
With all the Phil 2/3's now delivered out there, is there even one review from an owner of them yet? If not, how come?
All of them? How many do you think are out there?:rolleyes: How do you know any are even forum members?

And my car is out of Oil and Gas so I can't drive it either. :confused:

Geez, nothing but Excuses... something is rotten in Denmark. :D
I think it's you. For a 60 year-old you sure act childish.;)

Where are all the reviews for the Kef Q900. Oh wait...:D
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
It was around $6K when it was first released years ago.

Today it is $15K due to marketing (shows) & inflation.

John Atkinson wrote:

"Definitely one of my two best sounds at Axpona, along with the BAT-Scaena room, was the Orion 4 dipole speaker (from $14,750/pair with analog line-level crossover), designed by Siegfried Linkwitz and with custom enclosures made by Wood Artistry. Quad-amped with two Bryston 9B four-channel amplifiers, a Pass Labs preamp, and a Marantz CD player"

The Linkwitz Lab Orion 4 | Stereophile.com

Gotta pay for those Bryston amps & Pass Labs preamp. I'm surprised they didn't use those expensive pretty Marantz Reference gold preamp, monoblocks, & universal CD player. They would have taken FIRST place.:D
That really saddens me. Now they aren't the superb value they once were. At least you can build your own for cheaper. Heck, I wonder if having a custom shop do it for you would still be a lot cheaper?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...Paradigm Sig 8 v3...In my opinion, yes, they walk that line of being a little harsh, but again, it's one of the better domes I've heard (they use the Be tweeter too). The strength of the Paradigm's is their ability to be cranked to ear bleeding levels while maintaining their composure... Their one main weakness is the midrange, which just isn't as refined, detailed and warm...
Isn't the midrange the most important part of any speaker when it comes to music?

When I auditioned the Studio 100 v3 & B&W 800Ds, I thought the midrange was not very clear. Both the DefTech BP7000 & RBH T2/P had clearer midrange.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Isn't the midrange the most important part of any speaker when it comes to music?

When I auditioned the Studio 100 v3 & B&W 800Ds, I thought the midrange was not very clear. Both the DefTech BP7000 & RBH T2/P had clearer midrange.
It sure is; I was trying to be nice. :)
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
I do have a pair of sub drivers that might work with this idea. Keep in mind my mains will have 50hz capability. So I'm not sure how much help addition subs would provide.
Recession-busters are vented 7" 2-ways, right? Seven-inch 2-ways just can't do much for you at 50Hz. Maybe 95-96dB each, tops, if they're really really good drivers with 6-8mm of xmax. (Make that 91-92dB if sealed.) And at that frequency unless your room is very small you can't expect them to sum in phase. So, at 1m distance, you're looking at a total output at 50Hz from the three front mains of 101dB, best case. (And falling off from there with distance.)

So yes, more cone area and volume displacement from two additional subs will make a difference on dynamic program material. I'd seal the mains' ports (assuming they are vented), run them full-range, and try to blend in subs starting at maybe 130Hz or so depending on the size of your room.

You're kidding, right? What changed? When I heard them they cost like $6000ish.
He now uses more expensive Seas woofers (as opposed to the old XLS10's) in a different configuration, and the 6k price was IIRC before the rear-firing dome.

However, one can still buy the drivers to make a pair of Orions for ~2200USD from Madisound, use a minDSP to copy the transfer function (I assume with some digging it can be found) and outsource the construction of the cabinet to a local artisan for under $6k, I bet.
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
The placement and implementation matter of course, but at some point it comes irrelevant. I couldn't define that point but it's probably higher than you think.
Also, there's the factor of the sheer size of the VC. The TC3000's is a big honking inductor. (Admittedly, there is another thing that helps explain the low-fidelity bass quality it offers: a very peaky BL curve.)

But overall I think you are on balance right: variation matters more than value, and at some point it becomes irrelevant. As to what that value is, the driver with the highest normalized Le I've measured that I consider a top-level subwoofer driver is the old Oaudio TC2+ 15, at 0.84mH/Ω. However, I cannot think of a driver I've owned or otherwise measured with a normalized Le of between 1 mH/Ω and 1.5mH/Ω. More typical for drivers I find myself liking are values in the >0.3mH/Ω range. In my personal inventory that includes the Peerless 830500 (XLS12)*, JBL W15GTi, Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X Mk. I, and Aurasound NS10-794-4A/NS12-794-4A/NS15-992-4A/NS18-992-4A. (Yes, I like the Aura drivers just a little bit..)

*NOTE: Peerless's factory-spec is for Le is much higher than ANY third-party measured value; I'm using the average measured value - using FuzzMeasure Pro and the impedance jig in the manual - for my 5 XLS12's, which all measure virtually identically despite being purchased years apart. All are of Danish manufacture, not the newer Chinese ones, but I suspect the Chinese ones are just as good.

It really comes down to actual performance. There's a reason people like the RAAL, and not because it's some fad.
I don't know if that's true. I suspect it's rather less true than you think.

I know, but DI matching still doesn't address the issue of metal vs soft dome. Harman has shown almost an absolute preference for metal which implies there's some reasoning behind it.
Cite? I don't know if that's true.

That said, the big research-driven speaker companies such as KEF and the Harman companies have moved to all metal tweeters, so you may be right.

At any rate, midrange power response is much more important than diaphragm material.

it's what the perceptual research seems to show.
In one room, likely gamed to show that conclusion. (Harman makes mostly wider-dispersion speakers. They do great science, but they're also using it as a marketing tool. One shouldn't lose sight of that.)

I do think, as a rule of thumb, the smaller the room, the narrower the pattern the ideal loudspeakers for that room will throw.

Most narrow speakers have their baffle step around 7-800hz. It contributes to a big bump in power.
But typically sound power should start declining at 5kHz or so.

And of course it has to do with driver handoffs. A 1/2" tweeter necesdary for non tapering power response can't play down deep enough for a decent crossover, at least not at meaningful SPLs.
Fortunately, the supertweeter fad, which led to bad sounding speakers even from KEF and Tannoy, is long behind us.

The controls have to be in place... no very early reflections (10-15ms) so a large space is probablynecessary. ;;;;::No:: baffle step below 15khz. (even Pluto has a baffle step at 3khz)
IOW, conditions irrelevant to a domestic living room and practical loudspeakers.

Those of us who have heard systems EQ'ed to flat sound power know what they sound like. B-R-I-G-H-T.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
IOW, conditions irrelevant to a domestic living room and practical loudspeakers.
Is that what we're talking about? I thought we were talking about dream loudspeakers. I know 90 degree patterns are most practical, but most practical =/= best sounding

Those of us who have heard systems EQ'ed to flat sound power know what they sound like. B-R-I-G-H-T.
EQ'd for flat sound power =/= flat sound power + flat response
EQ'd for flat sound power == rising response because all practical drivers have a rising DI.

Either way, if you're factoring in early reflections, then you're not really talking about an ideal system, because an ideal system doesn't have early reflections contributing... just because it's not practical doesn't mean it's automatically "bright".
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
All of them? How many do you think are out there?:rolleyes: How do you know any are even forum members?

I think it's you. For a 60 year-old you sure act childish.;)

Where are all the reviews for the Kef Q900. Oh wait...:D
UT... OO.... another AH review must be another great review for the Q900's just like the Aperion VGT's, if you believe that crap -- Litmu+ just sent his back also, wonder why?

DM stated their are at least 7 pairs out there -- and that is from the horses mouth!

If they are GREAT, there would be some FEEDBACK for sure -- maybe when ADTG gets his, I know he will be honest and give us all some Feedback - OK, Good, Great, or Excellent as the case is. ADTG will call a Spade a Spade!

You have not even heard the KEF Q's or R's, get REAL - and stop your childish comments -- it is OLD!

I'm glad you have All the Answers there...
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Recession-busters are vented 7" 2-ways, right? Seven-inch 2-ways just can't do much for you at 50Hz. Maybe 95-96dB each, tops, if they're really really good drivers with 6-8mm of xmax. (Make that 91-92dB if sealed.).
Those are the current speakers. Not the future speakers. The future botoom drivers are Exodus Anarchy's tuned to 41 hz. There will be 2 per speakers. I'd never cross the RB-Kit that low they are 5.25". Nice bang for buck, but not capable of high SPL. Of course we currently sit pretty close so the requirements are too great anyway.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
UT... OO.... another AH review must be another great review for the Q900's just like the Aperion VGT's, if you believe that crap -- Litmu+ just sent his back also, wonder why?

DM stated their are at least 7 pairs out there -- and that is from the horses mouth!

If they are GREAT, there would be some FEEDBACK for sure -- maybe when ADTG gets his, I know he will be honest and give us all some Feedback - OK, Good, Great, or Excellent as the case is. ADTG will call a Spade a Spade!

You have not even heard the KEF Q's or R's, get REAL - and stop your childish comments -- it is OLD!

I'm glad you have All the Answers there...
I don't know all the answers, but I do e-mail Dennis pretty regularly, and he confirmed that most of the Phil 3 owners aren't forum members (though they've all stated the speakers are beyond their expectations). Two of them are, with one already having posted his impressions, and the other being ADTG, whom hasn't received his yet. When he does get them, yes, he will call a spade a spade. And even if he loves them, you still won't care because you're in your own world. Finally, woodsart will get his Phil 2's this weekend; he's already heard the 3's and loves them (you probably didn't even notice). Get the facts before running your mouth.

You're right, I haven't heard the Kef R's - no one has.:rolleyes: I doubt you ever will either.
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
What music do you guys prefer?

I enjoy Rock and Dance/Techno myself. I love going to Rock Concerts and I love going to a nice club.

Both places use what type of speaker mainly?
Rock, Jazz, New Age, etc. My reference is live jazz and classical, though, which is un-amplified music. You can use amplified rock music as a reference if want to, but the recordings of said genre vary so much that it's hard to do so IMO.
 
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