Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Impressive alliteration. :)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I won't get in your way. Those sisters are all yours, man.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Those high-gloss piano black R-series are definitely sexy looking.

I wonder if they will be available in high-gloss cherry too.:D

I look forward to their reviews on Stereophile or Soundstage/NRC.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Impressive alliteration. :)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I won't get in your way. Those sisters are all yours, man.
I'm with ya on the looks...However, they maybe be the meek quite librarian type that get really hot when applied with the right stimulus. :D
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
If they are priced between the XQ & Reference series, you know they won't be cheap...;). Dealers for the higher end KEF's are sparsely situated in my area....I didn't care much for the looks of the Q's which were easier to locate:).
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Floor-Standing Loudspeakers:

R500 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,299.99
R700 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,799.99
R900 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 8” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $2,499.99

Bookshelf Loudspeakers:

R100 – Two-way bookshelf speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit. Retail: $1,199.99
R300 – Three-way bookshelf speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,799.99

Home Theater Loudspeakers:

R200c – Three-way center channel speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $999.99
R600c – Three-way center channel speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,499.99
R800ds – Three-way dipole speaker; Two 1” HF units with two 5.25” MF drivers. Retail: $1,799.99
R400b – Powered subwoofer; 9” bass driver. Retail: $1,699.99


Cabinetry employs constrained-layer damping to eliminate vibration, and (typically from the computer-modeling/finite-element-analysis enthusiasts at KEF), the ports were designed using computational fluid dynamics modeling. And again typical for KEF, that technology looks nice too. Everything's available in piano black, rosewood, or walnut finishes to suit your space. The company claims performance that "comes close to...[their] Reference Series," so at these prices you should definitely be taking a listen if you're in the market for any of the configurations in the series.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
^^^^^^ are those msrp prices per/pair or each...I would think it's the latter?
 
N

NewHTbuyer

Audioholic
Sound and Vision lists their prices here:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/kef-rolls-out-r-series

I wonder why the surrounds are so high priced? Sure, they have 2 drivers each, but that is kinda a waste of cash to pay that much for dipoles, IMO. They do very little work compared to the center channel, and those are priced at $1499 or $999. I doubt I would ever put together a system where the dipoles cost more than the center channel. This seems to be trend among manufacturers. If you are on a budget you can really save by getting cheaper surrounds. You would probably only notice the difference with 5.1 music, and for that people recommend using regular speakers for surrounds, not dipoles.

Still, overall the line looks quite nice.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Sound and Vision lists their prices here:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/kef-rolls-out-r-series

I wonder why the surrounds are so high priced? Sure, they have 2 drivers each, but that is kinda a waste of cash to pay that much for dipoles, IMO. They do very little work compared to the center channel, and those are priced at $1499 or $999. I doubt I would ever put together a system where the dipoles cost more than the center channel. This seems to be trend among manufacturers. If you are on a budget you can really save by getting cheaper surrounds. You would probably only notice the difference with 5.1 music, and for that people recommend using regular speakers for surrounds, not dipoles.

Still, overall the line looks quite nice.

I wonder why you wonder why the dipoles cost so much, since you recognize the fact that you are buying a whole lot of drivers with a pair of dipole speakers. With one center channel speaker, you have one of the Uni-Q driver arrays, but with a pair of dipole surrounds, there are four of them, so that part of them should cost four times as much. Granted, the dipoles don't have the lower woofers, but we can get an idea of their value by comparing the R100 with the R300, with a price difference of $600 for having a pair of the 6.5" lower woofers. The R100 is a bookshelf with just the Uni-Q driver array, and it costs $1200, compared with the $1800 for the dipoles, which is twice as many actual drivers at only 50% higher price.

Comparing these (the aforementioned R100 with the dipoles), since the added drivers in the dipoles add $600, we may (for the sake of simplicity, not absolute precision) regard the Uni-Q array as $300 each, so the dipole should be $900 more than the one center channel speaker, except that we need to add in that $600 to the center channel price for the lower bass speakers (see comparison above of R100 and R300), which means that the dipole speakers ought to cost $300 more than the center channel speaker with the two 6.5" lower woofers. And that is precisely how much more they do cost than the R600c center channel speaker.

There is, however, one small matter relevant to the above calculation, and that is that the Uni-Q driver array is larger in the dipoles than in the other speakers, and so they ought to cost even more than they do. So KEF is really selling them at a discounted price relative to the other speakers.

If you don't want dipole surround speakers, you could go with the R100 for $1200/pair instead, to save $600 off the dipole price.

I personally expect to pay more for the surround speakers than for the one center channel speaker, but I use identical speakers in all channels (which is the only way to have truly perfect voice matching), so each speaker costs exactly the same as any other speaker (excluding subwoofers, of course). If I were going to go with these KEF speakers for a surround system, I would probably get R100 for all channels (depending on how deep, exactly, they go), and then spend the savings on multiple better subwoofers, to get better bass than one would otherwise get for the same amount of money.

In any case, dipoles cost more to buy because they cost more to make than comparable monopoles. This should not be a mystery to anyone.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Floor-Standing Loudspeakers:

R500 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,299.99
R700 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,799.99
R900 – Three-way floor-standing speaker; 8” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $2,499.99

Bookshelf Loudspeakers:

R100 – Two-way bookshelf speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit. Retail: $1,199.99
R300 – Three-way bookshelf speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,799.99

Home Theater Loudspeakers:

R200c – Three-way center channel speaker; 5.25” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $999.99
R600c – Three-way center channel speaker; 6.5” Uni-Q driver array with 1” HF unit and 5” MF driver. Retail: $1,499.99
R800ds – Three-way dipole speaker; Two 1” HF units with two 5.25” MF drivers. Retail: $1,799.99
R400b – Powered subwoofer; 9” bass driver. Retail: $1,699.99


Cabinetry employs constrained-layer damping to eliminate vibration, and (typically from the computer-modeling/finite-element-analysis enthusiasts at KEF), the ports were designed using computational fluid dynamics modeling. And again typical for KEF, that technology looks nice too. Everything's available in piano black, rosewood, or walnut finishes to suit your space. The company claims performance that "comes close to...[their] Reference Series," so at these prices you should definitely be taking a listen if you're in the market for any of the configurations in the series.
^^^^^^ are those msrp prices per/pair or each...I would think it's the latter?
billy I would think it is 'each'
According to S&V, as provided by:

The prices are each for the towers and center channel speakers, but for pairs of speakers for the bookshelf speakers and dipole surrounds.
 
N

NewHTbuyer

Audioholic
I guess my intent was not clear. It is obvious that a pair of R100s with 2 drivers have less material than a pair of dipoles with 4 drivers. Although, your use of the MSRP to calculate the cost of the driver is a bit misleading. If a pair of R100s cost $1200 retail, then the store probably paid $600 for the pair, assuming 100% markup. That means the cost to KEF was about $300 for the pair. That cost includes R&D, marketing, labor, insurance and parts. So, say 50% is parts. That means the total cost in parts is only $150 for 2 Uni-Q drivers, or $75 each. Maybe my assumptions are off here, but adding 2 more drivers does not actually add all that must cost.

Anyway, you kinda make my point for me at the end of your post. You can save money by getting cheaper surrounds.

Compare these 3 systems, all use matching R100s for L/C/R (cost of $1800)

A: R800ds for surrounds: Cost $1800, total cost $3600
B: R100s for surrounds as you suggested: Cost $1200, total cost $3000, add $600 to subwoofer budget.
C: Get cheaper dipoles for surrounds, such as new Aperion Versus Dipoles.
Cost $600, total cost $2400. Add $600 to sub budget and pocket extra $600 or use for another part of your system.

Of those 3, I wonder if the average consumer would ever notice the difference in the surround speakers during 95-99% of movies they watched (forget 5.1 music for the moment). Maybe they would and I underestimate how important surrounds are. They would definitely notice adding $600 to you sub budget though. That is like going from a Rythmik F12 ($799)to a FV15HP (about $1400)!

In fact, I would love it if someone did a blind shootout with a setup that had cheap, medium, and expensive surrounds using the same 3 speakers for L/C/R and tried to determine how much a difference it made to sink big bucks into surrounds.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The coaxial is probably the most expensive thing to produce for them, along with the large tower cabinets. Not only must the coax be custom shaped, but it's magnesium and magnesium drivers are flat out pricey. It's the same coaxial driver used in the $40,000 KEF blade!

I'm not a fan of THX style surrounds anyways though, so I agree with you they`re a waste of money.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
I'm with ya on the looks...However, they maybe be the meek quite librarian type that get really hot when applied with the right stimulus. :D
Or her frigid sister. :p
 
N

NewHTbuyer

Audioholic
Maybe my assumptions are off about the cost of the dipoles.

Still, I would love to see a blind test like I described to see how much people notice different surrounds. I read an article where the author compared dipoles and monopoles for surrounds and rear surrounds with the listeners blinded. I can't find it right now but people did notice a difference between the two types of speakers. But I haven't seen a test comparing dipoles of different prices.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Now there is my new R900's in HIGH GLOSS PIANO BLACK -- and they measure beyond belief, transparent with excellent clarity, tight bass with fast response having the Aluminum Coils for the motors, and Mag/Alum MF Cone, with the Elliptical/Spherical Dome tweeter within the CoAxial UniQ driver.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
The coaxial is probably the most expensive thing to produce for them, along with the large tower cabinets. Not only must the coax be custom shaped, but it's magnesium and magnesium drivers are flat out pricey. It's the same coaxial driver used in the $40,000 KEF blade!

I'm not a fan of THX style surrounds anyways though, so I agree with you they`re a waste of money.
Not true, after talking to the UniQ Research Engr. that designed the UniQ for the Q Series, the R Series is a spin off of the Blade driver, but not exactly the same, and the R Series is a step up over the Q Series UniQ driver.

The Q900 Harmonic Distortion (2nd and 3rd Order Harmonics) kicks in around 8kHz. and the party is over. The Q900 is roughly <0.4% from 90Hz to 8,000Hz, and the price shows it being around $1300 per Pair for the Q900 delivered to your door.

The R Series HD is <0.4% from 80-20kHz. again proving the UniQ drivers are different for the R Series vs. the Q Series. The R Series UniQ driver is very close to the Blade but not exactly the same, look at the closeup of the MF cone differences between the two.

The R900 adds more refinement to this - in particular the bass is faster and better controlled and, because of the more expensive cabinet construction and the three way design with a slightly more complex crossover, there is more transparency through the midrange and top end.

The Uni-Q in the R-series is not exactly the same as the Blade Uni-Q. The tweeter is very close indeed but the Blade tweeter has a more powerful, lower distortion motor system. The midrange is very different on the Blade, the R-series midrange uses the same technology as the Q-series drivers with a motor system, cone and surround specifically optimised for MF-only operation. The R-series midrange and the LF drivers use aluminium voice coil windings. Also, the Z-Flex rings are different between the R and Q series. The R900 Pair is around $4,000 to your door now.

That should HELP and Clear this up, and this is what the High Gloss Piano Black KEF R900 Tower looks like, but not located in my Audio Room yet. :)

 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
That high-gloss piano black looks mighty fine to me.:D
Black is Beautiful especially with the HIGH GLOSS finish!! :):eek:

See just because it is not curved on the enclosure does not mean that it has excellent specs. and does not sound Boxy, just Foxy!!:)

From my KEF friend:

Those that have heard the R's that we currently have have been very impressed, not only by their detail and openness, but also by their lack of boxiness in their sound.
 
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