New DIY MTM Towers designed by Dennis Murphy and Paul Kittinger

[Swerd]

Sean

Congatulations on the good news! I'm so glad you are all done with the world's finest glossy black speakers , because you may have less time for that in the future .

The only thing I can add to the other comments on a center channel, is my experience. For movies (but not music) I like using a center channel. With most or all 5-channel digital mixes, the center channel has the dialog and little else. Despite my efforts to properly balance my system, some movies have the center channel sound a little too quiet or, less often, too loud. If you have a separate chenter channel speaker, it is easy to adjust that just for one DVD so people don't have to strain to hear the dialog, no matter where they sit. If you rely on a phantom center channel, its difficult to adjust the volume of the dialog alone.

How did your visit to the B&W dealer go? Was it fun? Dennis Murphy is eager to know if your speakers blew away the competition, but is reluctant to ask. How hard was it to carry those towers and fit them in a car or truck?

Speaking of Dennis, I am pleased to announce that he has finally decided to post the ER18 MTM design on his DIY web site. He will include some of Sean's photos of his spectular speakers. (Sean, sorry to steal your thunder, but your other recent announcement may have you in such a big grin mode, that I hope you won't mind.) It makes sense to me that he will, eventually, design a center channel speaker to go with the towers. It might help speed things up if anyone else interested in building these send an emai to Dennis asking him about a center channel design. His web page has the email contact info.

 

[skyline_123]

First off, thanks for everyone's congrats on the future kiddo. We're very excited to bring a future audio enthusiast into this world.

First congratulations!

I think the issue of center channels is somewhat overrated. I know I have heard systems that would be better off without a center channel.

With my rig there really is very little difference whether you use it or not. If I could do a blind AB I bet you would have a hard time picking the in or out.

The big advantage I find is it allows you to touch up the balance. There are some SACDs and Blue Ray music discs where the engineers got the balance wrong. When wrong the center is invariably too loud. I have my rig with the center level on a potentiometer, so I don't have to fuss with menus to change it. I can change it on the fly, in totally linear old fashioned style. That is an advantage.

The biggest problem is that centers tend to interfere with the mains. You need a nice cone shaped distribution pattern, just covering the listening area.

I don't use a sub either, but I do keep the LFE discrete and I decide how it should be mixed in and not the receiver. I have no trouble really shaking the floor and I'm not using sub drivers. I have lots of spl, and I'm yet to bottom a driver. So subs are not something you have to have, and I designed this system to be better off without one.

I get what you're saying and have actually just now experienced the issue when you don't have one. We watched Inception the other night and in the beginning scene when Cobb and Saito are speaking at the table, the dialog was pretty quiet compared to the rest of the sound. It would have been great to simply adjust the settings to bring it up a notch.

I'm also please to announce that Walberswick Studios has been added to Sean's Bucket List! It would fun to get a collection of Audioholic members willing to open up their home for a personal tour and I could take one long road trip to visit them all. Who's in?

She must be like the happiest pregnant woman ever.
Is she glowing yet? Congratulations.



How about a wall mount? I like the Peerless wall mounts that were recommended to me by BMXTRIX. I used them for my Panny and Walter's Pioneer. Sawzalot built a cool box on his wall that pushes the TV into the room.

Every once in a while I get a movie that just has a stereo soundtrack and I don't have any issues not using the center but TLS' system is a little beyond the scope of normal. Just because he can get away without a center and a sub doesn't mean anybody else can pull it off.

The ER18's are a done deal design wise.
Getting a matching center over to Dennis Murphy for a crossover design seems important.

Yes, she is very happy, followed by depressed, followed by perturbed, followed by happy again. People have commented that she is 'glowing'. She's always been an angel to me so I wouldn't know the difference. (let's hope she snoops on the board and reads this)

Not sure I'd like a wall mount shelf system. Our TV sticks out a little bit from the wall so it'd be cantilevered out pretty far. I wouldn't mind building something into the support bracket holes on the back of the TV and having the shelf come out right over the TV. That would eliminate any unsightly shelving coming out of the walls if you're looking at the setup from the side.

You're right, it's becoming clear that a CC from Dennis is important. Unfortunately, even after heavily adjusting our tax withholdings from last year, we're still in the hole $3.5k. I just found this out yesterday. The good news is..........well no, there is no good news. It's all bad.

Sean

Congatulations on the good news! I'm so glad you are all done with the world's finest glossy black speakers , because you may have less time for that in the future .

The only thing I can add to the other comments on a center channel, is my experience. For movies (but not music) I like using a center channel. With most or all 5-channel digital mixes, the center channel has the dialog and little else. Despite my efforts to properly balance my system, some movies have the center channel sound a little too quiet or, less often, too loud. If you have a separate chenter channel speaker, it is easy to adjust that just for one DVD so people don't have to strain to hear the dialog, no matter where they sit. If you rely on a phantom center channel, its difficult to adjust the volume of the dialog alone.

How did your visit to the B&W dealer go? Was it fun? Dennis Murphy is eager to know if your speakers blew away the competition, but is reluctant to ask. How hard was it to carry those towers and fit them in a car or truck?

Speaking of Dennis, I am pleased to announce that he has finally decided to post the ER18 MTM design on his DIY web site. He will include some of Sean's photos of his spectular speakers. (Sean, sorry to steal your thunder, but your other recent announcement may have you in such a big grin mode, that I hope you won't mind.) It makes sense to me that he will, eventually, design a center channel speaker to go with the towers. It might help speed things up if anyone else interested in building these send an emai to Dennis asking him about a center channel design. His web page has the email contact info.

Well, you guys have me convinced. A center channel it is. Just be patient though. I just hit the reset button on my bank account.

First off, getting the speakers into the SUV was ridiculous! I'm not sure if I'd ever move those things again. Not to mention that when they're in the natural sunlight, all the imperfections are visible. I'm convinced that low lighting and my friends camera really do them justice.

Secondly, the owner of that store completely blew me off. Being a salesman as good as him, I shouldn't be surprised. It was a lot of work getting the speakers in the car and to call the store after work only to find out that he'd already gone home even after we made an appointment, shame shame. Maybe he was scared. So maybe that's good news to Dennis.

 

[GranteedEV]

I get what you're saying and have actually just now experienced the issue when you don't have one. We watched Inception the other night and in the beginning scene when Cobb and Saito are speaking at the table, the dialog was pretty quiet compared to the rest of the sound. It would have been great to simply adjust the settings to bring it up a notch.

I don't think that's what TLS Guy was refering to (channels mixed unevenly)

Inception just has really dynamic background music and special effects and LFE The voices aren't quiet, your volume was just too low.... but turning the volume up...welll...that scene where the glass shatters is frightening to say the least.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

First off, thanks for everyone's congrats on the future kiddo. We're very excited to bring a future audio enthusiast into this world.

Little finger prints all over shinny black speakers! Awesome!!! Congrats to the both of you!

 

[Alex2507]

You dragged the speakers to a store for a comparison and the guy stood you up?

The bit about sunlight just just makes me respect the abilities of these outfits that do flawless piano finishes. I've only ever seen it on some Aperion surround speakers but it is just amazing. The things looked and felt like black glass. *drool*

I can just picture you asking Denise if she knows anything about raising kids and then having to prove that you can outrun her.

 

[Swerd]

You dragged the speakers to a store for a comparison and the guy stood you up?

Maybe Sean should have fibbed and told the guy he was shopping for a center channel speaker to go with his new black beauties.

The bit about sunlight just just makes me respect the abilities of these outfits that do flawless piano finishes. I've only ever seen it on some Aperion surround speakers but it is just amazing. The things looked and felt like black glass. *drool*

That's why I think its easier to veneer speaker cabs than to paint them, especially if a glossy finish is wanted. It takes many coats, enormous amounts of sanding and polishing, and DUST CONTROL.

That's also why Jim Salk charges so much extra for hand-rubbed glossy finishes on his speakers. When he travels to audio trade shows, he always brings some windex and soft cloths to polish all the sweaty handprints from his speakers after they have been wrestled from the trailer to the show rooms.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm also please to announce that Walberswick Studios has been added to Sean's Bucket List! It would fun to get a collection of Audioholic members willing to open up their home for a personal tour and I could take one long road trip to visit them all. Who's in?

Sean, you are welcome here any time. It is a great place for summer R & R on beautiful Benedict Lake. We are geared up for visitors here so we handle it easily.

Children just love the place, so when your baby is two or more they have a really good time.

I have had quite a few audio buffs through the studio, only one audioholics member. They have a blast. It is a curious mix of bleeding edge and museum!

So if you are serious just PM.

We are quite a long way from Oklahoma! 830 miles, so I suppose you would do it in 2 days.

 

[skyline_123]

Wow, that place looks beautiful. Few chances like this come up in a lifetime, I can't think of very many reasons not to take you up on that someday. Thanks!

 

[yelnatsch517]

I did have a little time to compare the ER18's with the TriTrix. I will start off by saying that Curt Cambell did an excellent job at designing this budget friendly speaker. The TriTrix is a pleasure to listen to, especially considering the cost. They are PERFECT for a first time speaker builder. If you so choose, you can build the cabinets from scratch or buy them pre cut. The crossovers are very simple to put together. I believe there are 5 or 6 components to each crossover. And the best part is that if you find yourself way over your head during construction and you quit, you're not out very much money. And if you do go through with it, you have a wonderful set of speakers you can be proud to say you built.

As for comparing the ER18's and the TrixTrix, it's a hands down decision on which I'd rather listen to. The TriTrix images surprising well and has a very spacious sound with surprising bass considering the 5" woofers. Curt claims F3 to be around 50-55 hz. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest this build to others. With that said, in my opinion, the ER18's have a much higher quality sound overall. The bass reaches lower and sounds much cleaner. Instruments sound much more natural and the vocals more realistic. I will admit, this is a very vague description, maybe if anyone has a specific question, I may be able to answer with better information. When I was comparing the two, switching back and forth at the press of a button, every category I was trying to compare was dominated by the ER18's, the bass, mid range, highs, vocals, imaging, etc. I believe in this instance, you really do pay for what you get. The ER18's are bigger in every sense. They're physically larger, the drivers are larger, they cost more and the sound is that much more pleasant. Because of the cost difference though, it's almost unfair to compare the two.

Do you happen to know how these would compare to the Statements or SalkSound Songtowers or it's bigger brother the HT2-TL?

 

[skyline_123]

Do you happen to know how these would compare to the Statements or SalkSound Songtowers or it's bigger brother the HT2-TL?

I haven't heard any of the above speakers. The best person to ask about that is Swerd. He owns a set of Songtowers and has heard the ER18's (I believe). He lives close to Dennis so he's probably heard the HT2-TL's as well. Maybe he'll chime in.

 

[Swerd]

I haven't heard any of the above speakers. The best person to ask about that is Swerd. He owns a set of Songtowers and has heard the ER18's (I believe). He lives close to Dennis so he's probably heard the HT2-TL's as well. Maybe he'll chime in.

I heard the prototype for the ER18 MTM as it was being developed. I liked it a lot. I own SongTowers and could easily hear the strong family resemblance. The ER18's bass was deeper and more powerful sounding, but the midrange was essentially the same. The HT2-TL shares the midrange sound but is slightly more refined or detailed sounding, and has bass just a bit better, but it comes with a large price difference.

If you are considering STs or HT2-TLs, and can build your own cabinets, I strongly recommend the ER18 MTMs.

I havent heard the Statements.

 

[Jeff G]

I just started cutting wood for this MTM. The wife saw pics of the Statements and had a bit of a meltdown. Unfortunately, I had all the drivers for the Statements. Will be on sale soon. Mostly bummed about all the xover parts!!
Thought I might hang on to the Tangbands to make some computer speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

I just started cutting wood for this MTM. The wife saw pics of the Statements and had a bit of a meltdown. Unfortunately, I had all the drivers for the Statements. Will be on sale soon. Mostly bummed about all the xover parts!!
Thought I might hang on to the Tangbands to make some computer speakers.

Tell you wife she will like them. Go ahead and build them now you have cut the wood.

Form and function is the in thing. You have to start training your wife in, until she will accept this.

Tell her she is fortunate you are building such small speakers.

If your wife PM's me, I will pass it on to my wife and she can respond!

 

[jinjuku]

Do you happen to know how these would compare to the Statements or SalkSound Songtowers or it's bigger brother the HT2-TL?

If I were to hazard a guess I believe the Statements will be capable of more output with distortion #'s that will be competitive due do having more drivers and being a true 3 way design. One of the design strengths of true 3 and 4 way systems are drivers allowed to operate optimally in their pass band. Also reduces the X-Over complexity (speaking in general terms).

Can't say if you will like the dipole nature design of the Statements (where the TL MTM is more traditional and allows for easier room placement).

With my build the price difference between the Statements the the TL MTM was $50. So, for me, it was a no brainer.

 

[rajesh]

Here's some photos-

But where are the photos?

 

[GranteedEV]

I just started cutting wood for this MTM. The wife saw pics of the Statements and had a bit of a meltdown. Unfortunately, I had all the drivers for the Statements. Will be on sale soon. Mostly bummed about all the xover parts!!
Thought I might hang on to the Tangbands to make some computer speakers.

While they don't have my personal choice of veneer, I think these "curved" statements look rather attractive.

And that's what makes DIY great... you're not stuck with what the other person has.

 

[highfigh]

But where are the photos?

When did I post that and what photos was I referencing? I don't remember.

 

[Jeff G]

I agree that the curved Statements look really nice. I wnat to try and knock em out pretty quickly. The curved design would be a bit more involved. I like the idea of only using one sheet of veneer for the ER-18s. The Statements height required 2 sheets (unless you change the orientation of the grain and get creative. I think the Salk speakers are pretty gorgeous. That will be the lofty goal.
JG

 

[Jeff G]

Is that an Olive wood burl??? Gorgeous!

 

[Jeff G]

Most of the wood working is done. Drivers are here. Waiting on parts from Erse. just ordered figured Madrone. It will take a bit more but its getting closer-