New House, New Theater

[strube]

OK, just to clarify, what exactly are you doing with the velvet? This is only for a future screen, your present screen, or something else entirely?

I also assumed that the Triple Velvets are the same. I read "triple velvet" often enough, and I just assumed there would only be one true product. I guess we should confirm that there isn't some imitator involved.

I probably exaggerated about the S77, but still, I do recommend a mask. My friend (remodeler) who recommended this product doesn't care, but FWIW, he did buy some gnarly masks finally for other things like painting, after I bothered him about how bad sawdust is to breathe in.

The glue did not seep visibly. (Different story with liquid cement via brush, through thin speaker cloth.) You spray it on, wait a little bit for it to get tacky, apply. The 3M comes in different sized cans, and if this is for a screen border, I recommend the smallest can, because the nozzle is smaller; less overspray or more accuracy. I know you can at least get the smaller can in a combo pack, but perhaps it's available individually too. Get cheap plastic to cover the working area.

My recommendation is to spray like 90% of the fabric length, or I guess I should say all of it except for say the last half foot on each extremity. Make cut, then glue final portions/ends.

Ah yes, a clarification is definitely in order. I am covering my entire front wall in velvet.

I had this idea as I was moving away from Wyoming and my dad was working on a new theater. We stuck some self-adhesive black velvet that they use for telescope liner all over his front wall (except behind the screen) and the effect was most excellent. Despite the improvement in the projection experience, that stuff was expensive and it didn't stick too well. His ceilings were only 7', so we ran a piece on the ceiling as well, and it won't stay up. Anyway, I found the Mc-Master Carr stuff and got a sample (you can see a couple strips on the wall in the above pics). It sticks great, but now you probably understand more why I was so concerned with the price. I estimate I need about 15 yards of 45" wide fabric to do the whole wall, and I should probably go ahead and do behind the screen area if I ever intend to do the AT screen thing...

I will definitely wear a mask. There is going to be a lot of glue fumes if I intend to glue velvet to the entire wall.

I bought the combo pack with the big can and the little can of S77. I think I will probably do the big can for the massive surface area and use some metal J-channel to help me make my edge cuts without gouging the drywall, then use the little can for the edges.

 

[jostenmeat]

Ah, I see! Talk about a light controlled screen wall! Your screen will definitely be "floating", depending on the quality of the screen's border itself.

edit: I am starting to have some concerns about the overall visual effect though. Velvet like this is so absorptive, than any non-absorptive areas may stand out. So, your speakers . . . . will they be distractingly reflective all of a sudden? Your dad's speakers were plainly visible? (If you are certain to go AT, and have all* three speakers behind the screen, then I say go for it.)

Are you planning the cuts to be vertical, or horizontal? Yeah, with that much S77, open ALL the windows! haha.

I've never heard of the Carr stuff, but I'm guessing that every velvet we've mentioned in this thread is used inside telescopes. I'm pretty certain the Fidelio is, as I think Seymour said as much.

The stuff is really like a black hole. Check this out, I had all of my track lighting at max setting, pointed at the velvet. I had a tripod flashlight right next to me, pointed at the cutting area. I also had a headlamp on at max setting, and even with all that lighting, I could barely see the cuts I was making.

 

[strube]

Ah, I see! Talk about a light controlled screen wall! Your screen will definitely be "floating", depending on the quality of the screen's border itself.

edit: I am starting to have some concerns about the overall visual effect though. Velvet like this is so absorptive, than any non-absorptive areas may stand out. So, your speakers . . . . will they be distractingly reflective all of a sudden? Your dad's speakers were plainly visible? (If you are certain to go AT, and have all* three speakers behind the screen, then I say go for it.)

Are you planning the cuts to be vertical, or horizontal? Yeah, with that much S77, open ALL the windows! haha.

I've never heard of the Carr stuff, but I'm guessing that every velvet we've mentioned in this thread is used inside telescopes. I'm pretty certain the Fidelio is, as I think Seymour said as much.

The stuff is really like a black hole. Check this out, I had all of my track lighting at max setting, pointed at the velvet. I had a tripod flashlight right next to me, pointed at the cutting area. I also had a headlamp on at max setting, and even with all that lighting, I could barely see the cuts I was making.

Yeah, my dad's speakers were the most reflective thing around. The grilles weren't distracting, but I think he ended up putting velvet on top of his center and subs and on the sides of his L & R to tame the reflection and it looked fine. I think my situation will have less issue as far as that is concerned because of them being set back near the plane of the screen. I will probably have to put velvet on top of my current center, but I won't glue it. I also intend to wrap the sides and tops of the speaker holes with velvet and there will probably be black acoustic panels in the closet behind the speakers themselves for minimal distraction. I am excited to get it done. Should it turn out even half as good as my dad's theater, it will be awesome...I really need to put up pics of his theater. It is the best thing I/we have ever done. I even mechanical enginerded a vibration-damped projector shelf that made that RS2 nearly silent, after all the noisyness complaints I had while I was using it.

I built an MDF blank-out panel for the center speaker hole today. I will probably velvet right over that. As of today, I am getting a very definite, unambiguous vibe from SWMBO that the AT screen and DIY speakers might not happen in the foreseeable future (less because of money and more because of the doing stuff and never having it done - that may all change but we will see...).

It's okay though, I am sure I will enjoy what I end up with, especially since I have been without a really good HT for about a year now. The distant future holds a move away from California and hopefully a savings account that will allow for a custom home wherever we end up, and at that point, there will almost certainly be the full AT screen experience.

 

[jostenmeat]

Oh yeah, the RS2, and the noise complaints you had. Well, even though you've greatly ameliorated the situation, I have two things for you to look into.

Firstly, and it sounds stupid but it's easy so why not, but try a reseating of the lamp. See when I first changed a bulb, I had significantly higher noise floor all of a sudden. I thought I was careful about flush seating, but I redid it and was very deliberate about flush seating. Noise gone.

The other is something I recently read about, so I'm sure I've never told you. It is the possibility of a poorly installed metal screen between lamp and fan. A link to case opening instructions is included in the post below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=19284467&postcount=8365

 

[strube]

Fixed!

I fixed the left and center speaker holes with some careful muddage. They look much better now (there still looks to be some curvature but that is due to poor photography skills and the resulting distortion from said photography). You can see how bad that left one was before by how much mud there is towards the middle:

 

[jostenmeat]

Oh yeah, the RS2 . . .

You know, you were gone for so long, I think you probably didn't see this either. You gotta tell yer pops. After you do this 5 minute procedure, it's like you got a brand new bulb for free.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64750

And good job!

 

[strube]

You know, you were gone for so long, I think you probably didn't see this either. You gotta tell yer pops. After you do this 5 minute procedure, it's like you got a brand new bulb for free.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64750

And good job!

Nice, thanks! I will pass along the info. That sounds like an easy fix for the diminishing brightness issue. I will probably do it for him when I go visit next.

Working on putting up pics of his room as we speak.

 

[strube]

Here is an update and pics of the progress.

The new rack is the Sanus CFR127. I like it a lot because of how flexible it is, but I might have to add a bit of something dynamat-ish to prevent the side panels from buzzing at certain bass frequencies, should it decide to do so.

The crown molding was my second-most trying project after the velvet walls, but it was definitely the most satisfying when it was done. It looks amazing!

We bought 8' strips of decorative fake wood (some sort of foam) at Lowes, along with some decorative corner and center blocks so I wouldn't have to make any joints. It took forever to get everything painted. I painted the molding and the center/corner blocks the trim color and then sprayed a red stripe on the decorative blocks on the molding. I did end up making one joint in the molding because i had more than 8' over the screen area, but I got it perfect so you can't even see it if you know where it is. I also had to cope that one so it would fit around the vent in the ceiling, which took a very long time running back and forth to the garage, but I got it perfect too.

I put up the new light fixture (which I love) and put it on a Lutron Maestro IR dimmer switch. Excellent.

The projector shelf is positioned such that only my current projector will work, as it centers the lens straight on the screen. I screwed the back to the wall and hung the front by chains. the chains don't really work for me so I plan on wrapping them with wood by routing out a slot and sandwiching the chain between the two pieces. Without any weight on it, the shelf is kind of bouncy out at the end...

The velvet was hard. It took four people and it turned out excellent on the top part of the screen wall, but there were a lot of wrinkles and some slightly disappointing discoloration (from, I assume, being on a roller or cutting machine of some sort. There might be some dye I can fix it with later) on the angled wall by the door. Then came the bottom half of the wall. The adhesive backing was just too good. It stuck to everything and wrapping those speaker holes was sort of a nightmare. We have lots of wrinkles around the L/R speaker holes, the seams don't look very good and I am just not happy with how it all looks, up close that is. From a distance, it looks perfectly fine.

I wrapped the center blanking panel in the waxed paper stuff that was on the velvet and velveted right over itso if I ever go with the center/AT screen I can just slice and peel off the the velvet there and remove the panel, then just wrap the velvet into the hole.

 

[strube]

Semi-final pics:

The theater is operational, but not finished. I haven't got the speaker positions perfected, nor have I done any acoustic panels or the window covering. I probably won't run Audyssey until after those are done. Those are next on the list, but at least we can watch movies now. Woohoo!

As I said, despite my issues with it up-close, the velvet definitely had the desired effect. The screen just floats in space. I think at some point (probably post DIY screen if that ever comes to pass) that I will want to make some top and bottom masking panels for cinescope movies to round out the package, since those gray bars are now even more distracting. You can see the white walls of the closet behind the speakers, but you can't see them with the lights out, and I will have black acoustic panels back there at some point.

I also need to address the shelf vibrations because the projector noise is much more noticeable now (it was in a closet at the old house). Also I can hear the dynamic iris (that I couldn't hear before in the old house) clear as a bell and I hate it. It sounds like a 1990's hard drive. I haven't looked into it before now because I couldn't hear it but I don't think it should be as loud as it is. I am going to put the PJ on a big rock slab to increase the mass of the whole deal to start with and see if that helps at all.

 

[jostenmeat]

My screenwall is far from perfect too. However, it's only someone who is looking for it who will see it, unless they are up very close (but why would they, outside of looking for workmanship) or possibly with bright lighting (rare, as I do believe in letting the eyes adjust for best movie enjoyment). Enjoy it!

For the PJ noise issue, since you're an enginerd, I'm sure you already know what you're doing, but I would probably ask BMX directly for his tips. Therefore I'd advise a PM.

Now that Sanus has got me intrigued! I started a Middle Atlantic thread not so long ago, and the cost simply had me forget about it altogether. But this here, well the best price so far that I see from a reputable store is $435 from Sears. This is not bad at all for a "real" rack. I look forward to your reviews/impressions of it, please do post them in the future!

Oh yeah, good job! And great job on the molding.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM196869521P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM196869521

 

[strube]

My screenwall is far from perfect too. However, it's only someone who is looking for it who will see it, unless they are up very close (but why would they, outside of looking for workmanship) or possibly with bright lighting (rare, as I do believe in letting the eyes adjust for best movie enjoyment). Enjoy it!

For the PJ noise issue, since you're an enginerd, I'm sure you already know what you're doing, but I would probably ask BMX directly for his tips. Therefore I'd advise a PM.

Now that Sanus has got me intrigued! I started a Middle Atlantic thread not so long ago, and the cost simply had me forget about it altogether. But this here, well the best price so far that I see from a reputable store is $435 from Sears. This is not bad at all for a "real" rack. I look forward to your reviews/impressions of it, please do post them in the future!

Oh yeah, good job! And great job on the molding.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM196869521P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM196869521

Thank you, sir. I will talk to BMX about getting the thing quieted down after I try a few things.

I will go take some more photos of the rack and do a little mini-review.

I would stay away from that Sears thing you linked as it is from a potentially unworthy 3rd party seller (GizmosForLife or some such business). Even at the $622 with free shipping that I paid from the 'zon it is a great value because it comes with more than enough shelves (Note that GizmosForLife also sells on Amazon, but despite their low price, they charge 200 bucks shipping so...). I wish it came with a few more blank-out panels but I just elected to put the extra shelves in for random things down the road, and I still ended up with 2 extra shelves that I will put in storage somewheres.

I'll go snap some more pics. Be back in a few.

 

[strube]

I went ahead and threw together a little review of the rack in the reviews section for you (and anyone else):

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71042

Enjoy and have a great evening!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Great job Strube! After seeing the initial war zone photos, I wasn't sure what to expect. But, it turned out very nice!

 

[strube]

The window...

So, I came up with something I think is fairly clever to keep the light out for daytime movie watching. First, I built two acoustic panels with semi-open backs for a little bass trappage:

Since we were getting fancy, my wife broke out the sewing machine and put some nice red accents into black fabric, and we stretched them around the panels. It was a lot more difficult with the accents getting everything lined up, whereas blank fabric would have been very simple. The accents were the slightest bit wavy but I am happy with how it turned out.

Next, I put pocket/sliding door track on a header above the window and rollers on the panels, hung them, and put a valence up that hides the track.

...and now for pictures:

They glide nicely open and closed, not that I will need to open them very often.

What surprised me, as one who has never had acoustic treatments, is what a huge difference it made. The difference in channel separation and clarity was amazing! I am excited to get the rest of my panels done - I can now see what the big deal was (even though I already knew, but had just not experienced). I bought a 9-pack of panels down in LA and I have 6 left, so I should be able to do the room up pretty nice. We haven't decided if the red accent is worth the trouble for the other panels.

 

[darien87]

Pretty slick way to kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

[jostenmeat]

Man, I wish I had enginerd skillz. So far as I have learned, when you are against the back wall, that back wall becomes priority #1 in treating. The bass that occurs at the boundary supposedly masks your other frequencies. I don't know how important it is in the grand scheme of things, but the untreated reflection there is also extremely early, and thus will mix itself into the direct audio without you being able to discern it as ambiance.

Well done!

 

[jostenmeat]

If you are thinking of replicating your current size, my guess is that 96" x 63" would be enough to allow you to get some tilt in, and yet it would still only be $103.60 before shipping. IOW, you could sell your Carada perhaps, and conceivably make money on this upgrade. If you want maximum tilt, by getting the 98" wide (tall), the price would jump considerably. I'd contact Chris to see what he thinks.

Hey I just saw this, and thought that you would be interested.

Carada-Seymour retrofit

 

[strube]

Bad news...

I think my Denon 4310's HDMI board is dying. I have picture drop out (but not audio drop-out) with the HTPC and the ATI graphics card about once every two seconds. With an old NVIDIA card, it only happens about twice every hour. Haven't had it happen on any other sources, but if I hook the HTPC directly to the PJ it doesn't have any issues...it should still be under warranty, but what a pain. I don't really want to be without the theater for however long it takes to send in for repair...

I also have a high pitched headache-inducing whine from the PJ that is a recent issue. I put two pieces of packing foam on either side and it absorbs most of it. I am thinking about trying the Epson warranty roulette (since they cross-ship and if I get one that is worse I can always send it back instead of the one I have). I always have a hard time getting motivated to do warranty things...

Other than that, I am enjoying the theater way too much - I haven't built the other panels because I am having too much fun watching movies and playing xbox!

Hey I just saw this, and thought that you would be interested.

Carada-Seymour retrofit

I am not seeing pictures. Did he get it stretched and sag-free after putting snaps on the Seymour fabric? I was under the impression that it was not a very stretchy fabric. Too bad his pictures went away - that is a very cool way to reuse the nice aluminum Carada frame.

 

[jostenmeat]

The photos must have been very, very recently taken down. They were up for a while. You might try kindly asking for a few pics by PM maybe, or for general advice.

If one graphics card works better than another, can we still lay all* of the blame on the HDMI board? (Honest question, you tell me enginerd.)

How are any other sources, say a dedicated BDP? If that works perfectly, do you still blame the HDMI board? Sorry, I've never used a HTPC.

I say you get in on that warranty before it expires, at least, or that's a thought.

 

[strube]

The photos must have been very, very recently taken down. They were up for a while. You might try kindly asking for a few pics by PM maybe, or for general advice.

I believe I shall do that, if for no other reason than pure curiosity's sake.

If one graphics card works better than another, can we still lay all* of the blame on the HDMI board? (Honest question, you tell me enginerd.)

I...well...um...see below.

How are any other sources, say a dedicated BDP? If that works perfectly, do you still blame the HDMI board? Sorry, I've never used a HTPC.

Interesting you should mention that. My Oppo and Xbox haven't had any problems, but I ended up getting rid of my Panny BDP because it "wouldn't play nice" with the 4310 on any port when we hooked it up in the new house while I was working on the HT. It would flash off and on and when it was on it was a very nasty, digital-staticy looking thing. I blamed the combination of the two but I am starting to think it was just the Denon. I recalled later that the two had worked fine together back before we moved to Cali. The Panny also was fine when directly hooked to the Samsung LCD.

What confuses the heck out of me is why Oppo and Xbox are enjoying the 4310 experience with no problems to speak of...also in any port...and NVIDIA card is much more "Denon friendly" than ATI card, despite the occasional hiccup.

I say you get in on that warranty before it expires, at least, or that's a thought.

Woed. (do we still say that around here? )

I just checked: warranties are good until October 2011 for the Denon and July of 2012 for the Epson. I should get on it anyway.