Where to begin??

[mattsk8]

1) THe garage and house are different environments. the tweeter's interaction with its environment has a VERY strong effect on what you hear. an environment is capable of smearing detail.

I'm aware of that. I just remembered why I retired them those years ago. They don't have much depth.

I know this isn't ideal for getting the best sound, but knowing I don't really want to run a powered sub, what's the best option w/out breaking the budget? Is this a good option- TriTrix MTM TL Components Kit? Really cheap. I think it was 120$.

I'd like to start w/ something 'cost effective', and if I'm happy w/ it, I'll spend some real money on a whole system for my upstairs home theater.

Once again, thanks to all of you for the incredible input and advice.

Totaly off the subject; skyline_123, are you a Nissan guy?

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm aware of that. I just remembered why I retired them those years ago. They don't have much depth.

I know this isn't ideal for getting the best sound, but knowing I don't really want to run a powered sub, what's the best option w/out breaking the budget? Is this a good option- TriTrix MTM TL Components Kit? Really cheap. I think it was 120$.

I'd like to start w/ something 'cost effective', and if I'm happy w/ it, I'll spend some real money on a whole system for my upstairs home theater.

Once again, thanks to all of you for the incredible input and advice.

Totaly off the subject; skyline_123, are you a Nissan guy?

I don't quite know how much it costs for the parts (You'd have to calculate that and I'm lazy), but the Zaph ZDT3.5 is supposed to be an amazing cost effective tower.

Now regarding the tritrix it's a transmission line and it's designed by the sameguy who did the crossover for the well-known Jim Holtz Statement series... that's definitely a great combination I'm sure it's a good speaker, and at that price you have little to lose. It looks like a good project to get your feet wet, at least as far as towers are concernedf

 

[mattsk8]

I don't quite know how much it costs for the parts (You'd have to calculate that and I'm lazy), but the Zaph ZDT3.5 is supposed to be an amazing cost effective tower.

Now regarding the tritrix it's a transmission line and it's designed by the sameguy who did the crossover for the well-known Jim Holtz Statement series... that's definitely a great combination I'm sure it's a good speaker, and at that price you have little to lose. It looks like a good project to get your feet wet, at least as far as towers are concernedf

I read up a bit on that one and everyone seems to be happy w/ it. Only prob I see is the woofers are discontinued. Everything else is about $265. Originally the woofers were around $40 each I think.

Based on that, should I just run w/ the TriTrix MTM TL? You've never heard anyone's build of these before?

One more question- what's a transmission line?

 

[mattsk8]

Go with a vintage mesh grille... like this >.>
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/169623-sonus-faber-amati-diy.html

I actually checked that out and love it! I don't know if I posted it here or earlier before I even knew this DIY section was here, but I plan on making barnwood veneer w/ my resaw and that's what I'm kicking around the idea of finishing the outside of the cabinets in. That grill cloth would go great w/ it!

The main reason is the pool room is accented w/ barn wood and beams. I think it would look sweet if I do it right! Maybe not though, maybe it'll be the most ridiculous looking thing in the world! Never know till I try!....

 

[skyline_123]

Totaly off the subject; skyline_123, are you a Nissan guy?

You could say that. I've had a couple of 240's in the past and the wife drives an Armada. Here's my new baby though.

 

[GranteedEV]

I read up a bit on that one and everyone seems to be happy w/ it. Only prob I see is the woofers are discontinued. Everything else is about $265. Originally the woofers were around $40 each I think.

Ahh, I see. You're right.

Based on that, should I just run w/ the TriTrix MTM TL? You've never heard anyone's build of these before?

Can't tell you a thing about it

One more question- what's a transmission line?

A transmission line is... complex and as much as i've read on the concept, I still can't describe it.

 

[mattsk8]

I can't remember the exact figure, but I probably have close to $800 in them. I could have saved money by choosing different crossover components, ports and other miscellaneous stuff, not to mention I used the ribbon tweeters. If you use the dome tweeters, it drops the price about $70. It was one of those things where I was already committed to quite a bit of money so to bump it up another $100 bucks or so to upgrade some of the components wasn't too hard.

Was that $800 for everything or just the drivers n crossovers? What did you gain by going w/ the ribbon tweets?

I was looking at the TriTrix MTM TL but after checking it's only 5" drivers and I'm afraid that won't be enough low end for me. I really wish that option GranteedEV threw out but the woofers are gone. I'd like to stay below $400 on the drivers and crossovers for this one. Then, if it's not too frustrating for me, I'll build something better for my home theater.

Any suggestions? Hoping for a tower but I am open to different ideas. Maybe it's time for another thread?

 

[Swerd]

Was that $800 for everything or just the drivers n crossovers? What did you gain by going w/ the ribbon tweets?

I believe that $800 includes everything he spent so far, including lumber, paint, varnish, sand paper, etc.

There are two versions of the ER18 MTM towers, one with a Fountek ribbon tweeter, and the other with a high quality 1" dome tweeter. There are crossovers custom designed for each design.

The details are in this post. The parts & prices for drivers, crossovers, vent tubes, binding posts, and cabinet feet are shown below. The bottom line in each table shows the total cost.

Parts List for Ribbon Tweeter version (Fountek Neo Cd3.0 M)

Parts List for Dome Tweeter version (Dayton RS28F)

I was looking at the TriTrix MTM TL but after checking it's only 5" drivers and I'm afraid that won't be enough low end for me. I really wish that option GranteedEV threw out but the woofers are gone. I'd like to stay below $400 on the drivers and crossovers for this one. Then, if it's not too frustrating for me, I'll build something better for my home theater.

Any suggestions? Hoping for a tower but I am open to different ideas. Maybe it's time for another thread?

I haven't heard the TriTrix, but the designer has an excellent reputation among DIY builders, and I believe it should sound very good. The kit is sold by Parts Express at a price that makes it a great deal. It is designed for new DIY builders, and can be bought as a complete kit including pre-cut MDF pieces for the cabinet. You can also buy the parts alone and build your own cabinet from their plans.

I think it would be a great way for you to start. Because it is a widely known and popular design, you could easily sell it and build something else for yourself later.

You had also asked what is a transmission line?

A transmission line (TL) cabinet is different way designing a cabinet to reinforce lower bass. The other ways are sealed or ported cabinets. TLs work like the pipes in a pipe organ, and when designed correctly, produce superior sounding bass compared to the other two methods. Untill recently, designing TLs was difficult and required lots of trial & error. Construction is also more complex, and as a result, TLs have rarely been seen commercially. Generally a TL cabinet will be large, as in a floorstanding tower.

As far back as 1970 (maybe earlier?) people developed math formulas that made designing sealed or ported bass cabinets easy and predictable without requiring trial & error with real wood. That is why there are so many sealed or ported cabinets around today. Only recently did similar math become available for TL design. Do a google search for Martin J. King to read more.

The TriTrix cabinet, as well as the ER18 MTM cabinet were both designed using this recently developed method. For DIY speaker builders, I think it is clearly worth building TLs.

 

[skyline_123]

Was that $800 for everything or just the drivers n crossovers? What did you gain by going w/ the ribbon tweets?

I was looking at the TriTrix MTM TL but after checking it's only 5" drivers and I'm afraid that won't be enough low end for me. I really wish that option GranteedEV threw out but the woofers are gone. I'd like to stay below $400 on the drivers and crossovers for this one. Then, if it's not too frustrating for me, I'll build something better for my home theater.

Any suggestions? Hoping for a tower but I am open to different ideas. Maybe it's time for another thread?

That figure I gave was for EVERYTHING. We're talking wood, ports, magnets, terminals, everything. If you want the cost of JUST the xover components and speakers, you're probably getting closer to your desired figure. This is, of course, if you go with the Dayton tweeters.

The way I think about it, if your figure is $400 for the xover components and speakers alone, and you're thinking of choosing a different design because of that, I would go ahead and commit to the ER18's and start building the enclosures with the Dayton tweeter. If you're anything like me, it'll take a while so you'll have plenty of time to save just a little bit more. I think it should come out to be a little over $500. At $400, you've already invested quite a bit, what's a little more, especially if it takes you a long time to finish the enclosures like me . I think it's better to wait and get something you REALLY want than to settle for something less. You'll be saying "these are nice, but those ER18's would have been SWEET" every time you turn on your system. Do you really want to hear yourself say that every time? Can you tell I'm biased here?

I can't comment too much on the differences between the two tweeters because I haven't heard the others. The ribbons get crossed over higher than the Daytons so you're asking a little more of the Seas woofers and I think the off axis response of Daytons will be better.

That being said, when I was probing Dennis to inform me on which tweeters HE preferred, I could never get a straight answer out of him. He did say this though, " The RS dome will never have the effortless high end response of the Fountek, but it will do better at the low end. It will have less distortion even though it will be crossed lower, and the lower cross will improve the vertical dispersion pattern of the woofers."

Btw, I'm starting the construction on the TriTrix TL's this weekend. If you're a patient person, I will give you a direct comparison between the two when completed. Hell, just come on down and you can demo them for yourself!

 

[mattsk8]

Btw, I'm starting the construction on the TriTrix TL's this weekend. If you're a patient person, I will give you a direct comparison between the two when completed. Hell, just come on down and you can demo them for yourself!

I'll be right over, I'll bring some beer! (J/K!) How long will it take you to finish? I just don't want to loose out on the deal. $200 for everything including the cabs is pretty cheap! Was going to go w/out the cabs but after I thought about it I'm sure mine won't be any better and all that time to save $70?!! No brainer to me!

Maybe I'll end up runnning a powered sub. I went out and played around today. Listened to some speakers at an audio retailer near me just because it's been a while since I've heard anything but what I or a friend has. Has anyone heard of Canton speakers? The GLE 470.2 to be exact. These sound amazing! Once again, I'd wish they had just a bit more low end but wow, what depth!

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/canton-gle-series

If I could come close to that, I'd be VERY happy!! I think they were $1200 for the pair. Maybe I'm dreaming if I think for $200 I'll get close to that sound? I realize I'll save a bit off retail cuz I'd be assembling myself but I doubt that much.

 

[skyline_123]

I'll be right over, I'll bring some beer! (J/K!) How long will it take you to finish? I just don't want to loose out on the deal. $200 for everything including the cabs is pretty cheap! Was going to go w/out the cabs but after I thought about it I'm sure mine won't be any better and all that time to save $70?!! No brainer to me!

If you do get the TriTrix, maybe it's better to build the cabinets yourself. It adds another level of appreciation when complete and I can almost promise you this wont be your last build; maybe the experience will help with your next. Like Swerd said, because of their popularity, you could probably sell them and recoup some of that money.

I think optimistically I will have the TriTrix done by Christmas (I can just hear my wife laughing right now)

Maybe I'll end up runnning a powered sub.

I've heard integrating a sub with TL's that play as low as they do can be a little difficult. I hate to leave a comment like that without any facts but maybe Swerd will comment. I wouldn't personally know because I didn't run my subs when they were playing because I loved the way they sound by themselves.

I went out and played around today. Listened to some speakers at an audio retailer near me just because it's been a while since I've heard anything but what I or a friend has. Has anyone heard of Canton speakers? The GLE 470.2 to be exact. These sound amazing! Once again, I'd wish they had just a bit more low end but wow, what depth!

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/canton-gle-series

If I could come close to that, I'd be VERY happy!! I think they were $1200 for the pair. Maybe I'm dreaming if I think for $200 I'll get close to that sound? I realize I'll save a bit off retail cuz I'd be assembling myself but I doubt that much.

Don't be so sure. There's a lot of cost that gets factored in with commercial gear, R&D, high end looking cabinets, overhead, just cost of business in general that does NOT occur with DIY stuff. I can't say for sure in this case as I have not heard either speaker but that's the idea in general.

What sometimes happens to me is that I'll go into an audio store without any reference music and will be forced to critically listen to new music on new speakers. In some cases, I'm really impressed with all the detail and yada yada but when I get back home and pop in the same piece of music, I realize that they weren't really that good. I know it doesn't help that so much time passes between listening in the store and at home but I still like to think your brain tricks itself into thinking something sounds really good when it's only because it's the first time critically listening to it.

 

[mattsk8]

I'll just get the $130 kit and go for it. Build my own cabs and all (just for the experiance)! Really looking forward to this. Haven't been this excited about something since I did my first custom kitchen! This is going to be fun!

 

[GranteedEV]

I'll just get the $130 kit and go for it. Build my own cabs and all (just for the experiance)! Really looking forward to this. Haven't been this excited about something since I did my first custom kitchen! This is going to be fun!

Building your own box is fine, but it has to match the design exactly to keep the transmission line tuning etc. Follow the schematic and make sure to get the fill right.

 

[mattsk8]

Building your own box is fine, but it has to match the design exactly to keep the transmission line tuning etc. Follow the schematic and make sure to get the fill right.

While I know it'll be time consuming, that wont be a prob! One thing I know I can do is build the cabinet to exact specs, dados and all. The only question I have is if I get the kit w/out the cabs, does it come w/ thorough cabinet instructions or do I have to find those after I get the kit?

I'm honestly still concidering getting the prebuilt cabs just because I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I know it'll take me probably a solid 2 days to build the cabs (w/out any veneer, just the naked cabinets) and I can get the cabs prebuilt for $70.00. Two reasons I'm concidering building them myself is I don't know what thickness MDF their cabs are and the practice would be nice for preparing myself to do my home theater. That'll be 6 bookshelfs and a center. That plus the bragging rights !

 

[Swerd]

While I know it'll be time consuming, that wont be a prob! One thing I know I can do is build the cabinet to exact specs, dados and all. The only question I have is if I get the kit w/out the cabs, does it come w/ thorough cabinet instructions or do I have to find those after I get the kit?

TriTrix Cabinet drawing is here.

For full details about the design, with plenty of figures & drawings.

 

[skyline_123]

I'll just get the $130 kit and go for it. Build my own cabs and all (just for the experiance)! Really looking forward to this. Haven't been this excited about something since I did my first custom kitchen! This is going to be fun!

Sweet, keep us posted with your progress!

Custom kitchen huh, got any pics? My wife and I may be giving our kitchen a makeover soon.

 

[mattsk8]

Sweet, keep us posted with your progress!

Custom kitchen huh, got any pics? My wife and I may be giving our kitchen a makeover soon.

I've actually done 3 on my own. I was a builder but times here in MI got the best of me. Had to shut it down and take a job as a production manager at a plastics recycling plant. Miss the building! I did a lot w/ reclaimed hardwoods too. Made my own hardwood flooring out of wood I reclaimed from 100+ year old buildings.

I'm trying to upload the pics but haven't figured out how w/ this stupid newer computer, got it about 3 months ago. (Actually, I don't think its the computer, probably more to do w/ the user!) Everytime I try to upload a photo in manage attachments it tries then says failed. I'm pretty sure I have to resize them but don't remember how in my HP program. I'll figure it out here sooner or later !

Far as the speakers go, I'll definitely build my own cabinets. Read the reveiws and they scored excellently except almost everyone complained a bit about the quality of cuts from their cabinets! Solves that problem!

Also, thanks a lot Swerd for those links!!

 

[mattsk8]

Hope this worked... This is a distressed island I made. Actually made the whole kitchen. I have more pics but wanted to see if this worked first!

 

[GranteedEV]

Ya got me excited for your speaker build... if you did a 2" marble baffle

 

[mattsk8]

Going to order up tomorrow. This will definitely be a learning experiance to say the least! My main reserves w/ this are, how are these going to sound? I'm convinced they sound really good based on what I've read but I'd hate to put this much time and effort into something that doesn't sound good. To get all done and be torn between the sound of these and my Infinity RS4's that I retired about 8 years ago would really suck! Although I'm not expecting anything too super duper spectacular. I ultimately want to do the ones skyline's building and a home theater system as well, figured these would be a cost effective way to make some beginner mistakes!

And how do the crossovers get wired together?! Hope I can find a good thread on someone that's built these!? My knowledge of crossovers is minimal at best ! Maybe time to become a member of the partsexpress forum?

One other question, does anyone have pics of their cabinets w/ grills? I see all kinds of speaker kits and none of them have grills. Just curious to see how the grill frames are made and looking for some different ideas for how they fit the speakers.

Being Christmas time I doubt I'll make any huge advancements on this project till after the first of the year. Just got done putting calender dates in my phone from the wife and I don't have much free time till after the holidays. I will figure out how to put photos on here though so I can keep track of the build! That photo of the island is pretty bad but it did come from my crappy blackberry camera.

Thanks a lot to everyone for taking the time to help me out here and answer my questions! Really excited about this, it incorporates two of some of my favorite things- cabinet making and stereos!!!