DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[MonkeysHamlet]

Chu, just curious, what was your relationship with Mark Schifter? I remember back in the day at HTF you used to recommend their products. Did you ever get the shaft from the shift or did you just start to put the pieces together based on what others were saying?

 

[m-fine]

Chu, just curious, what was your relationship with Mark Schifter? I remember back in the day at HTF you used to recommend their products. Did you ever get the shaft from the shift or did you just start to put the pieces together based on what others were saying?

According to MLS and Craig at TCA, Chu is an industry insider who is hiding his real identity and is slandering MLS because of some old grudge. Somehow I think there might be another side to the story with a little more truth behind it.

 

[MonkeysHamlet]

I applaud Chu for uncovering what he did, regardless of the circumstances. If he want's to remain undercover so to speak thats fine with me. Just curious as I'm sure everyone else is. Maybe Chu is Batman.

Also - "according to MLS" really isn't the way you want to start off a sentence these days if you want to be taken seriously. Either way though, I'm sure there is a lot to the story. I guess we will just have to wait for the movie.

Furthermore I don't think it can be called slander since everything he has said seems to be true.

 

[subdude]

According to MLS and Craig at TCA, Chu is an industry insider who is hiding his real identity and is slandering MLS because of some old grudge. Somehow I think there might be another side to the story with a little more truth behind it.

Considering that MLS and HWSNBN at TCA were partnering on stuff, and the timing of that partnership and the rave reviews of the MFW is highly suspicious and never explained but erased from history and covered up, and TCA has run some raffles and is into vaporware av123-style, well, the smart money is on Chu.

 

[m-fine]

Also - "according to MLS" really isn't the way you want to start off a sentence these days if you want to be taken seriously.

I would hope no one would take the unsupported accusations against Chu seriously given the two rather dubious sources. It is rather odd that they claimed to know his real identity and motive, yet they never bothered to come forward with those details, nor even the slightest shred of evidence that Chu is anything but a rather dedicated crusader against fraud.

 

[mhawker]

I've always thought of Chu as MLS's alter ego. This is the only way to explain how he knows so much- in so much detail.

Perhaps schizophrenia.

MLS posts as Chu to offset the negative things he's done. Kind of a soul cleansing.

 

[Jed M]

I've always thought of Chu as MLS's alter ego. This is the only way to explain how he knows so much- in so much detail.

Perhaps schizophrenia.

MLS posts as Chu to offset the negative things he's done. Kind of a soul cleansing.

That would be awesome. Norman Bates crazy would be a seriously great ending to this saga. Tell me its true Chu/TADG/MLS/Schifty/Anita Koch!

 

[FudBuster]

Quad, if you're reading this thread, be thankful that they deleted your posts. From an outsider's POV, all your posts having to do with cooking, repairs, and what not, would only serve to give an indirect stamp of legitmacy to the organization. It is a stamp that is undeserved. This thread and others have served to illustrate the deception and thievery that AV451/Mark Schifter have long enjoyed. He has sought and manipulated friends, employees, business associates, suppliers, forum members, and family. Many sat quietly while the crocodile ate others, thankful it was not them. Now, the crocodile has eaten you. So,why do you say, "I suppose I should be grateful that my account hasn't been deleted. Maybe that's how I'm supposed to feel."?

There is only one thing that you can do seeing as you're still a member and that is an act of civil disobedience. You need to send your own personal message on their forum. You need to stand up for what's right just like the protesters in Iran did. Just like the protesters at Tiananman Square did. Just like Ghandi and his supporters did. You need to call him out, tell him FU, tell him what you think of him, and let them ban you. It's the only noble thing to do. Take the sword and move on. He won't care. Neither will Suzy, his wife, or Field Marshal Steidle. He never had any use for you other than how it could further his own nefarious interests.

Stick it to him Quad and let him cut you down. Only then can you move on. Whether you're banned here or not, we'll support you if you do it. I know I will.

Well Chu, while a part of me agrees with you, it's just not my style (as you know) to do things that way generally. While I'm thoroughly disscusted (sp?) at ALL that's transpired, especially with regard to the raffles, I was never personally harmed or taken advantage of. Lied to.... yes. But, I'm a big boy and have been lied to by many others before and will be again. So, I can deal with that.

As for the others involved, From meeting her once and the few other times that I've spoken with her, I long ago came to one concrete conclusion.... Lynn is a classy lady. She doesn't deserve what's happened to her IMHO. If it wasn't for her hard work, many folks likely never would have gotten their LS speakers. With regard to Kyle, he is a good egg. He's gotten slung under the bus more than he deserves (also IMHO). As an employee, he has his marching orders and has to follow them. I don't condemn him for that, nor his need for a job to support his family. After being out of work for nearly five months myself in this economy, I can at the least, respect him. But, in my limited dealings with him over the years, I've found that I like him as well.

As for Suzy Q.... well, that's another story. I don't know her and have never realy had any contact with her save for once; the first time I met her. It was at the first big Colorado gtg in '04. It was the last day of the event when everything was being torn down. I don't know that she was even involved with the company at that point. I think she was still an executive at Kinkos. Anyway, folks were busy cleaning up and it was a while before my flight back to Indy. So, I wanted to visit the Flat Iron Mall a couple of miles away to look for some souveniers for my girls. I asked the group for a volunteer to drop me off at the mall (I hadn't rented a car). Lynn asked Suzie Q to do so.... but in a huff, she informed Lynn that she was WAY too busy and basically, just couldn't be bothered with it. Lynn drove me over herself and made certain that I got picked up when I was finished. So, my "first impression" of Suzie Q wasn't the best. Although in fairness, we all have our bad days and that might have been one of 'em for her so I'll reserve judgement.

In the end.... I'll still likely use that forum to try and stay in touch with the many friends I've made through the years there. Yeah, there are certainly other ways to do that for sure, but it's just easier to do it that way I suppose. I don't have hours to spend on the computer anymore so it's convenient for me to do so.

With all that being said, I hope I'm not immediately re-banned after this first post under a new screen name. While I don't agree with or subscribe to some of what's said here, I'll keep my opinions (most of them anyway) to myself. Hopefully, that will satisfy the powers that be.

 

[GirgleMirt]

Chu, just curious, what was your relationship with Mark Schifter? I remember back in the day at HTF you used to recommend their products. Did you ever get the shaft from the shift or did you just start to put the pieces together based on what others were saying?

After putting the pieces together based on what others were saying, I think Chu is Schifter's russian ex-mistress, and like they say, hell has no fury like a woman scorned!

I think many realized something was wrong with Schifter/av123.com, something fishy, but Chu was the one to actually dig deeper than just the surface, and being the investigative hero that he is, this happened!

While I'm thoroughly disscusted (sp?)

I think you mean that you've been undiscussed, as in, your discussions were removed, aka: undiscussed... I think you mean disgusted, from disgust Btw, I'm surprised that you're still surprised about these kind of things, one would think that you'd have learned your lesson by now...

Just yesterday on the radio they were talking about a case in Europe where someone had embezzled a bunch of rich idiots and had scammed them out of millions in the span of years, and when it became known that the guy was a crook and a scammer, they still refused to believe that they had been had and he was not the guru he had convinced them he was... It actually took a long time of therapy before they finally realized they had been had.

I think you're still wearing your pink sun glasses, might be the time to remove them and look at things realistically...

I was never personally harmed or taken advantage of. Lied to.... yes. But, I'm a big boy and have been lied to by many others before and will be again. So, I can deal with that.

Well if you think that, you've deluded yourself. You've been used, you've been a fantastic marketing tool, you've probably helped them to gain credibility, probably sell a couple of items, enroll others to join the bandwagon and also participate in the hype and all that, really, probably help denigrate/fight anyone not hyping or criticizing them, you might be a big boy but you've definitely been taken advantage of. Unless you were aware that he was a crook, never donated for any cause, never praised them or recommended them, etc... Which I somewhat doubt...

Anyhow, I think this is considered noise here and was asked to be refrained from adding any more...

 

[FudBuster]

I think you mean disgusted, from disgust

LOL.... that's it. I KNEW it wasn't right but when you're old like I am, well your brain just freezes up from time to time. At least mine does.

 

[Chu Gai]

Chu, just curious, what was your relationship with Mark Schifter? I remember back in the day at HTF you used to recommend their products. Did you ever get the shaft from the shift or did you just start to put the pieces together based on what others were saying?

Back when MLS first came out with the Rockets, I did make a few comments back at HTF that said they bore consideration. The extent of any personal correspondence with MLS, which were a few PM's and a couple of emails (I'm pretty sure I still have the emails), had to do with with the whole crossover upgrade/redo's that took place a few years ago. It was back around then that I developed suspicions that there were problems with making the crossovers correctly and by extension the speakers themselves.

Other than that, he and I have never spoken or met. I've never owned his products, contributed to any raffles, or loaned him any money. I've also never worked in this industry. As you say, I started putting pieces together from what people were saying. I also started receiving unsolicited PM's and emails from folks who were owed money and product. Information if you will. I also started contacting the charities and raffle recipients independently of anyone and asking questions like whether they'd received $X on around such and such a date from MLS or other names. The first was Ballet Nouveau. It was his first fund raising effort and he used his grand-daughter, Gracie, as bait. I figured if he could use her and keep the money, then it would reasonably call into question each and every other raffle he ever ran. Other places I contacted were Dana Farber and The American Red Cross. To them I provided information including links, dollar amounts, dates and stuff like that. Then I introduced the charities to each other. They conducted their own personal investigations apart from my own and when they were satisfied, they in turn contacted the Longmont police, CO AG and SOS, and I believe the Dept. of Revenue has also expressed an interest.

 

[Chu Gai]

According to MLS and Craig at TCA, Chu is an industry insider who is hiding his real identity and is slandering MLS because of some old grudge. Somehow I think there might be another side to the story with a little more truth behind it.

I would hope the Commandant has moved past that to more fruitful pursuits

Considering that MLS and HWSNBN at TCA were partnering on stuff, and the timing of that partnership and the rave reviews of the MFW is highly suspicious and never explained but erased from history and covered up, and TCA has run some raffles and is into vaporware av123-style, well, the smart money is on Chu.

Yeah, they ran raffles but at least they didn't have sticky fingers like MLS. I think now they know, as do other companies, that you can't legally run a raffle if you're a business. I have no interest and no intention of turning them and a bunch of other companies into the authorities. To date, TCA's partnering with former MLS suppliers has not worked out especially well. It's a good thing they've got a ready supply of cash because it doesn't look like they've generated anything that could be considered a gross profit to date. My personal assessment is that they're largely inept but maybe the new products will turn things around.

I would hope no one would take the unsupported accusations against Chu seriously given the two rather dubious sources. It is rather odd that they claimed to know his real identity and motive, yet they never bothered to come forward with those details, nor even the slightest shred of evidence that Chu is anything but a rather dedicated crusader against fraud.

Can't somebody just not like that prick in Longmont?

I've always thought of Chu as MLS's alter ego. This is the only way to explain how he knows so much- in so much detail.

Perhaps schizophrenia.

MLS posts as Chu to offset the negative things he's done. Kind of a soul cleansing.

Did your uncle ever tell you what I personally asked of him for providing information?

 

[Chu Gai]

Girgle, I am for sure not Schifty's Russian ex-mistress. That would imply that I'm like those Thai lady-boys and enjoy taking it in the brown eye. Nope. The door only swings one way here my good man. Now, the question is, should I post pictures of Ms. Khabarovksi (my nickname) - the woman who was the recipient of clothing, furs, cars, a dog, a home for her parents, and a boob job?

Quad, years ago, back in the day of Ozmai, Suzy-Q's nickname was 'The General'. You can make of that what you will. As to his wife, I've heard stories from people who have been in meetings where she's been present about conversations and she's been none too pleasant with who has been called what. As for Kyle, he's had a long time to get another job. Unless he's been working undercover, I have no use for him and could care less what happens when Longmont folds.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Chu is Batman!

Honorable mention has to be given to the pioneer Grandarf who in the past was spot on his unpopular assesments of the company at a time when fanboys attacked.

 

[MinusTheBear]

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AV123 Raffles
This is off topic, but can someone at av123 please explain what happened to the open raffles you used to have? I don't care about winning, but what I do care about is that those pots of collected money went to the charity it was designated to, and not into someones pocket even though all the slots in the raffle did not get filled. Thank you.
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Mine as well save this before it gets four five oned.

 

[mhawker]

Did your uncle ever tell you what I personally asked of him for providing information?

Ya, he said something about a loan extension.

 

[thenatinator]

Chu is Batman!

Honorable mention has to be given to the pioneer Grandarf who in the past was spot on his unpopular assesments of the company at a time when fanboys attacked.

Drunken thursday rewind:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1011564&page=1

 

[subdude]

Drunken thursday rewind:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1011564&page=1

Wow. Pretty interesting to see who the fanboys were back then and the crazy talk from them and MLS.

One question for those who know more than me - Post # 71 (page 3) has a reply from Rijax of TCA. He responds to this av123 comment:

"I believe we should applaud Mark and AV123 for allowing the public to become involved in product development and their attitude towards towards their customers.AV123 doesn't view us as just a sale or profits but as part of their family. I only wish the level of civility shown by AV123 would be shown by the rest of the businesses in the US. It would make the world a better place."

by saying: "Some people enjoy the involvement, some don't. We're very glad you are among the former. Thank you for the kind words."

Did he work for MLS before joining Der Komissar?

I also found this comment on the google cache. Can anyone resurrect the full thread? (Ajax is Rijax) Title is "av123 vs. ascend"

"Talk to Ajax... he's on the AV123 payroll now but he knows Ascend well and he won't bs you. ..."

 

[FudBuster]

Wow. Pretty interesting to see who the fanboys were back then and the crazy talk from them and MLS.

One question for those who know more than me - Post # 71 (page 3) has a reply from Rijax of TCA. He responds to this av123 comment:

"I believe we should applaud Mark and AV123 for allowing the public to become involved in product development and their attitude towards towards their customers.AV123 doesn't view us as just a sale or profits but as part of their family. I only wish the level of civility shown by AV123 would be shown by the rest of the businesses in the US. It would make the world a better place."

by saying: "Some people enjoy the involvement, some don't. We're very glad you are among the former. Thank you for the kind words."

Did he work for MLS before joining Der Komissar?

While it's obvious that I among many others strongly supported that company and its owner back then, I don't think we were "crazy." We were part of a community (the other company's forum) that hung out together and truly enjoyed each others company. Not unlike a favorite watering hole or coffee shop where friends gather and just talk about "stuff." The fact that we were conned with what was truly going on "behind the scene" wasn't our fault.

We've all learned a thing or three since then that has caused more than a few of us to grapple with feelings and emotions that we shouldn't have ever needed to. The thing I find most distasteful, is how this whole ordeal has splintered the audio community to the point where name calling and derogatory labeling of individuals seems to be acceptable and even encouraged.

All of us are unique individuals. We are all going to perceive, look at or form opinions of things differently. Just because someone feels or views something contrary to my own perception, I certainly don't have any right to label that other person or deliberately try to elevate myself as being superior to them in any way. That's where I find this whole clusterphuck to be the most disheartening.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Wow. Pretty interesting to see who the fanboys were back then and the crazy talk from them and MLS.

One question for those who know more than me - Post # 71 (page 3) has a reply from Rijax of TCA. He responds to this av123 comment:

"I believe we should applaud Mark and AV123 for allowing the public to become involved in product development and their attitude towards towards their customers.AV123 doesn't view us as just a sale or profits but as part of their family. I only wish the level of civility shown by AV123 would be shown by the rest of the businesses in the US. It would make the world a better place."

by saying: "Some people enjoy the involvement, some don't. We're very glad you are among the former. Thank you for the kind words."

Did he work for MLS before joining Der Komissar?

I also found this comment on the google cache. Can anyone resurrect the full thread? (Ajax is Rijax) Title is "av123 vs. ascend"

"Talk to Ajax... he's on the AV123 payroll now but he knows Ascend well and he won't bs you. ..."

Subdude,

I think there might be an answer in this thread titled on the 451 forums called The Ombudsman Steps Forth - Lets Please Welcome and Congratulate . That thread with the rest of the forum are nuked so unless you can find a cached version you will not be able to read it.