DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Chu Gai]

Sounds good. Maybe Serinus will be there too.

 

[ju10503]

An update - ordered a "garage sale" Onix A-120 yesterday, got UPS tracking # today. As with my CD-5 purchase of this April, smooth sailing. Maybe it is just with pre-ordered items?

 

[Chu Gai]

An update - ordered a "garage sale" Onix A-120 yesterday, got UPS tracking # today. As with my CD-5 purchase of this April, smooth sailing. Maybe it is just with pre-ordered items?

Well, so long as it is in stock whether that be an actual store product or something out of Shifty's basement or garage you shouldn't have any problems receiving it.

 

[Matt34]

Same sh*t different day:

Yep, he can't even keep a simple promise to return ones call.....

last week leave him message #4 that he has not returned....

texted him at one of his private #'s.

text's back that wants to setup a time to call the following day.

no call of course

some BS about why the next day. still no call

2 more voicemails....

still no call.......

I have 2 things I need from him.

1. some replacement X-SLS's in moho for veneer thats coming apart.
2. a check for $6K for some RSL II's that he has yet to deliver or even post a picture of a prototype for that matter....

Anyway.... hope everyone enjoys their LS9's.....

Damn, even the guy who bought my spot in line for LS9's (PBEM) still does not have them...... I feel really bad for him too......

Sean

...and I've read that at least three others have been promised a ship date on their LS9 and all three of them are at least two weeks past due.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Same sh*t different day:



...and I've read that at least three others have been promised a ship date on their LS9 and all three of them are at least two weeks past due.

Maybe the team was busy working on the long awaited official MFW-15 owners manual . Now tell me, have you ever purchased electronic equipment and not have it come with product literature?

 

[Chu Gai]

Typical Shifty serving up the usual Kool-Aid for all to drink up. I like how he talks about all those LS's, "We have never had this many LS's moving through here at one time... Fun - but nerve racking all at the same time...". To make it look like they're just zipping through the warehouse he takes the same group of speakers and photographs them in different settings then the gullible think it's just oodles of speakers being cranked out. Except of course, that the people who are waiting for them never seem to get them.

Just think of the joy when the people get their expertly veneered speakers only to find down the road the veneer is cracking. I say joy because then it'll match their defective MFW's veneer. Now, that's what I call break in.

Here's a post on 10-09-09, 12:45 AM by Ruben of Fallen Enclosures, Inc. (which I can't find a listing for in Colorado).

Within the next 60 days I will be purchasing a CNC router for my shop. I expressed to Mark the absolute necessity for such a machine if I am to keep up with not only what's in the works right now, but also the loads of 4's, 6's and 9's that are next in line. Even though I've set my entire shop up to mass produce LS's, it's still nowhere near as efficient as a CNC will make it.

Then on 10-09-09, 09:19 PM, Shifty writes,

CNC is moving - and veneer purchases are ready...

We're going to make it...

Just think, 9 hours later he writes the CNC is moving. WTF? And as of a few days ago, he still hadn't ordered the veneer.

 

[gonk]

Maybe the team was busy working on the long awaited official MFW-15 owners manual . Now tell me, have you ever purchased electronic equipment and not have it come with product literature?

This has bugged me for a while now, mostly because I tend to be picky about user manuals to begin with. It is really odd that the MFW-15 has been in production for this long (year and a half? longer?) without a user's manual. The web site refers users to a different sub's manual even though the two subs are different designs (one a 10" sealed unit and the other a 15" ported unit) with completely different amplifiers. Even worse, the manual they refer to is for a sub that itself lacks a current manual - the manual never changed when the amp was replaced with a completely different amp that lacked some of the original unit's EQ features. Sure, we're talking about subwoofers, so it's not rocket science to get one set up, but it's also not rocket science to write a manual!

 

[Chu Gai]

I'm picky about manuals too and it's not like they couldn't have used some other manual, even from a different company, as a template. Were you aware gonk, that MLS on his website in one of his Temporarily Read Only fireside chats said the present MFW amp has been subjected to FCC compliance testing? Said it cost something like 5 grand.

 

[njedpx3]

Maybe the team was busy working on the long awaited official MFW-15 owners manual . Now tell me, have you ever purchased electronic equipment and not have it come with product literature?

Microsoft products, if you mean manuals that actually are informative

 

[gonk]

I'm picky about manuals too and it's not like they couldn't have used some other manual, even from a different company, as a template. Were you aware gonk, that MLS on his website in one of his Temporarily Read Only fireside chats said the present MFW amp has been subjected to FCC compliance testing? Said it cost something like 5 grand.

They've got three other subs with manuals (although one needs modifying due to amp changes), so it wouldn't be that hard to use one of those as a starting point for the MFW-15's manual.

I hadn't seen a post about FCC testing on the MFW-15 amp. Haven't been by their forum lately - don't bother much since I got banned, as it's inconvenient (don't want to clear all my cookies just for that one forum and don't feel like hunting down that one particular cookie, so I either use a different browser or an "incognito" session of Chrome). I pop in on occasion, but don't follow it closely.

Microsoft products, if you mean manuals that actually are informative

If we include ones that existed but weren't informative, I could probably come up with several!

 

[MinusTheBear]

Microsoft products, if you mean manuals that actually are informative

I am specifically talking about not supplying a manual for a product that is plugged into an electrical outlet. Owners manuals might not also be informative for setup but they will supply basic information such as:

1) Saftey instructions and precautions
2) Specifications and measurements
3) Basic troubleshooting
4) Product registration
5) Warranty information and replacement policy

Its basic information that should be supplied in hard copy with the purchase product. An owners manual is part of the transaction.

 

[Chu Gai]

I hadn't seen a post about FCC testing on the MFW-15 amp. Haven't been by their forum lately - don't bother much since I got banned, as it's inconvenient (don't want to clear all my cookies just for that one forum and don't feel like hunting down that one particular cookie, so I either use a different browser or an "incognito" session of Chrome). I pop in on occasion, but don't follow it closely.

On 7/24/09 he wrote while feeling frisky,

I was asked earlier in the week by a good customer about the CE and FCC “Marks” on our products, and do we “Self Certify”… The emphatic answer is NO – we do not subscribe to self certification process here. The CE Mark is a very serious matter to us – as is the FCC one – and BTW… these have serious costs (over $5000 dollars in procedural tests) associated with them. Our products so labeled have passed each certification.

I doubt he's ever done that.

 

[njedpx3]

I am very picky about conveying information ..especially technical

I'm picky about manuals too and it's not like they couldn't have used some other manual, even from a different company, as a template. Were you aware gonk, that MLS on his website in one of his Temporarily Read Only fireside chats said the present MFW amp has been subjected to FCC compliance testing? Said it cost something like 5 grand.

I am very picky about conveyance of information especially technical. I have developed and taught technical education, developed and published IT Security standards and policies and have developed audit protocol to validate and test; and finally preformed technical audits. I know about technical manuals! and I abhor poorly written and/or unclear manuals/documentation.

Later,

Forest Man


P.S. _ I also perform ( or used to perform ) technical reivews and like to help users on this forum by digging information out of audio/video HT technical manauls.

P.S.S. -- Is nayone old enough to remember the IBM mainframe blue manuals ?

P.S.S.S. - Strube you are correct I am no Harry Henderson ; just like the outdoors, especailly forests

 

[ju10503]

Well, so long as it is in stock whether that be an actual store product or something out of Shifty's basement or garage you shouldn't have any problems receiving it.

I cannot comment on others experiences, since I don't know the facts, but once again, the item arrived on time, and was an A stock item instead of inoperable B stock due to an error on AV123's part. I called, and Mark himself got on the phone, we chatted about it, and without my making any claims, he said I could keep it. An effectively 94% discount.

Lastly, I do not understand why people who have all these complaints post here and elsewhere, as opposed to putting their energies into actual consumer and legal processes available to them.

The U.S. is governed (at least at this scale) by the rule of law, and there are better ways to resolve conflicts than the mob mentality of Internet forums. No need for cyber lynchings people. Call your credit card company, bank, department of consumer affairs, ... if you really have a legitimate beef. I have done so dozens of times with vendors, doctors, ... and have won 100% of the time.

 

[Matt34]

Lastly, I do not understand why people who have all these complaints post here and elsewhere, as opposed to putting their energies into actual consumer and legal processes available to them.

The U.S. is governed (at least at this scale) by the rule of law, and there are better ways to resolve conflicts than the mob mentality of Internet forums. No need for cyber lynchings people. Call your credit card company, bank, department of consumer affairs, ... if you really have a legitimate beef. I have done so dozens of times with vendors, doctors, ... and have won 100% of the time.

Your mistaken if you don't think there are folks doing just that. If you have looked here and elsewhere you will still see that these ongoing problems are still out there and should be addressed as such. The internet is the way ID companies do business and without threads such as these new customers would have no idea of the past and current situation.

 

[Chu Gai]

I cannot comment on others experiences, since I don't know the facts, but once again, the item arrived on time, and was an A stock item instead of inoperable B stock due to an error on AV123's part. I called, and Mark himself got on the phone, we chatted about it, and without my making any claims, he said I could keep it. An effectively 94% discount.

That's great. Considering they're no longer affiliated with Onix, I guess MLS was just getting rid of stuff regardles of whether it works or not as I think he has no idea. But, you scored a good deal seeing as you don't need to service it.

Lastly, I do not understand why people who have all these complaints post here and elsewhere, as opposed to putting their energies into actual consumer and legal processes available to them.

I agree wholeheartedly. Many people have taken a very passive, let's hope it all turns around and I get what's owed me, approach.

The U.S. is governed (at least at this scale) by the rule of law, and there are better ways to resolve conflicts than the mob mentality of Internet forums. No need for cyber lynchings people. Call your credit card company, bank, department of consumer affairs, ... if you really have a legitimate beef. I have done so dozens of times with vendors, doctors, ... and have won 100% of the time.

Virtually all folks are past the time when the credit card company can assist. I agree whole heartedly on the other matters. Some folks have taken pro-active legal approaches but getting a judgement and then enforcing it can take a bit of time. As to other matters of a more scurrilous and nefarious nature, I think eventually we'll see some sort of reckoning.

 

[ju10503]

I would really be curious to see posts of people who have contacted their credit card company or taken legal steps. It would make this a lot less "he said, she said," and return it to the world of facts where it belongs. I am not a lawyer, but some of the more ad hominem posts would probably qualify as libel should Mark ever decide to take action. I would be upset if I was owed money too, but again, would really love to see someone post: "I ordered X on date Y, it did not arrive, I called my credit card company and disputed the charge on date Z, ..." You just have to keep a cool head, keep things in writing (hard copy letters with certified mail), specify deadlines for racheting up action, and so on. Insulting people on the Internet is really unproductive, unfair, and weakens any eventual case you may have, because it could be used to demonstrate that you are unreasonable, have a personal issue, etc. This applies to any dispute you may have in life. I terrorize hospitals, doctors, vendors who screw with me, and keep meticulous electronic records of everything. I have never lost. Not to sound arrogant, but the "adult" way is boring, slow, but very effective.

 

[ju10503]

Hello,

My name is Grant and I would like to do all that is within my power to discourage you from buying from AV123.

Let me preface this by saying that I do own quite a bit of AV123 gear. However, I would like to discourage you all from owning it yourselves and the following is why.


A sale was made by Mark Scifter on 09-08-08 for a pair of Reference 3's and a Reference 100. This sale was for a friend of Mark's (though the money went directly to Mark Schifter)

That sale can be viewed here:

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=36413&highlight=friend

(As an aside from anyone from AV123 who might remove this thread I already have a screen shot of it so please do not waste your time)

In that thread the items were guaranteed to be shipped WITHIN TWO WEEKS.

To this day nothing has been shipped.
...JGC

Ok, I've had nothing but good experiences with av123 and Mark, him speaking to me on the phone re technical advice, emailing me promptly, etc. re two purchases I made.

So, I have to ask a rather obvious question - how were the items paid for and when they were 1 week late why didn't your friend contact his credit card company?

If this is on the rest of the posts, forgive me, but I refuse to read 165+ pages of this.

 

[gonk]

I would be upset if I was owed money too, but again, would really love to see someone post: "I ordered X on date Y, it did not arrive, I called my credit card company and disputed the charge on date Z, ..." You just have to keep a cool head, keep things in writing (hard copy letters with certified mail), specify deadlines for racheting up action, and so on.

As you dig through these threads, what you will frequently find are reports of people who pre-paid one or two years ago (either direct payment for a product or in some cases non-refundable "gift certificates" that were earmarked for a specific purchase) and then failed to receive their product or a timely refund. In those cases, people have repeatedly inquired with their credit card companies and been informed that too much time had passed since the original payment to dispute the charge. In other cases, people bought a product and found that it either under-performed (didn't meet the published specifications) or failed prematurely with frequent failure of replacement parts. In those cases, people have ended up in a similarly difficult position of waiting for replacement parts for a product that they'd owned too long to return for a refund or to dispute the original credit card charge for. In fact, the original poster in this thread is a very good example of exactly what you want to see: he has outlined the order date, the dates that he pursued additional information, the time that passed, and the inability to dispute the charge (via PayPal in that case, I believe).

Insulting people on the Internet is really unproductive, unfair, and weakens any eventual case you may have, because it could be used to demonstrate that you are unreasonable, have a personal issue, etc. This applies to any dispute you may have in life. I terrorize hospitals, doctors, vendors who screw with me, and keep meticulous electronic records of everything. I have never lost. Not to sound arrogant, but the "adult" way is boring, slow, but very effective.

This is very good advise. I suspect that some people have tried similar things.

 

[ju10503]

Your mistaken if you don't think there are folks doing just that. If you have looked here and elsewhere you will still see that these ongoing problems are still out there and should be addressed as such. The internet is the way ID companies do business and without threads such as these new customers would have no idea of the past and current situation.

are their posts here? those would be much more useful than the ad hominem nonsense in many of these, calling the guy names, and even referring to his wife (in another thread) ... there is never a reason in disputes like this to insult people, if for no other reason, that you could see yourself on the wrong end of a libel suit.