HELP with TV selection PLease

[3db]

It's true that LCD's can stand up better to high ambient light conditions vs. plasmas, but consider that most HDTVs are not located in sun rooms and in moderate and low ambient light conditions plasma panels look far better than any LCD. Further, if you consider the cost difference, even for a Kuro, plasma's tend to be lower cost, especially for larger screen sizes.

Most TV viewing is in the evening and if you view in the daytime soft window treatments will greatly improve the picture and audio quality for plasma and even LCDs as all TV technologies will perform better in controlled lighting environments.

So for those who want a HDTV in a sun room and will be using the TV for mostly daytime viewing by all means go ahead and buy a LCD panel, all others will be well advised to buy any plasma.

Sorry to start a controversy, but I tell the truth regardless if it's liked or not.

-Robert

Obviously your not from Canada. You have no idea about the prices up here and how screwed up it really is. LCD in Canada for some strange reason is considerably cheaper than an equivalent screen/resolution plasma model. I wish it weren't like that

 

[musta9]

Obviously your not from Canada. You have no idea about the prices up here and how screwed up it really is. LCD in Canada for some strange reason is considerably cheaper than an equivalent screen/resolution plasma model. I wish it weren't like that

3dB As a side question I was looking to buy a flat panel Tv for my parents who live in Montreal around $800. I've been looking at the Samsung - LN40A550 - 40" LCD TV but it would be from an American online vendor. Do you have any suggestions for places to buy from a canadian website so I can save on the shipping? Does anyone have other suggestions for a comparable size and priced TV equal/better quality?

Thanks

 

[musta9]

There is a stand for the KRP-600M. It's just that you have to buy it seperately and the price is around $400. You can get it for cheaper if you simply buy it as "replacement parts" directly from Pioneer's Replacement Parts website.

The exact parts you would need to order are AXY1212, AXY1221 and two of the AXY1222. In order, those are the bolts/screws, the base and the "legs" (which is why you need 2 of them). Getting the stand as seperate replacement parts directly from Pioneer makes the total cost of the stand about $300.

Possibly a better option though is to get a wall mount. Even if you plan to place the display above a TV stand, there is no real reason why you cannot mount the monitor to the wall. I favor the Peerless ST670 SmartMount, which gives you the option to tilt the KRP-600M. I highly recommend Mounts and More as they offer a great price - about $90 - and great service. Give them a call on the phone. Sometimes, their website will show the wall mount as being out of stock, but they can check with their warehouse and often confirm that they actually have it in stock a ready to ship!

Of course, if you go with the PDP-6020FD instead, that model will come with a table-top stand. Even if you went for the KRP-600M and bought the table-top stand for that model seperately though, I believe it would still be less expensive than the PDP-6020FD and it would definitely be less expensive if you went with the Peerless ST670 wall mount.

You do have to be careful about what wall mount you buy. The Pioneer 60" plasmas do not conform to the same standards as a lot of other large displays, so you have to make sure that the wall mount you choose will specifically work with the KRP-600M. If it says that it will work with the PRO-141FD, that is the same thing. The KRP-600M and PRO-141FD share the exact same mounting design

In your bright room, I would personally say that either Kuro IS worth the price over the 58" Panasonic V10. The Kuro plasmas retain their black levels better and the screen is noticably less reflective. Those two traits combine to make the Kuro definitely look better than the V10 in a bright room.

The V10 has no advantages over the KRP-600M. The V10 does have a bit of an advantage in colour accuracy over the PDP-6020FD. But if your only choices are the V10 and the PDP-6020FD, I would still go for the PDP-6020FD because of the black level retention and reflective screen issues. If you can make the KRP-600M work for you, then it is no contest - KRP-600M all the way!

If you have a cable box or a satellite box or a Tivo, then there is no need for a ATSC/NTSC tuner in your display. So really, the only concern for you with the KRP-600M is how you will place it. If you want to stand it on your shelf or TV stand, then it'll cost you $300-$400 for the seperate stand. If you can mount it to the wall, then you can easily do so for under $100 extra!

Best of luck!

First reflection thanks alot about your advice. My wall is sectioned in shelves. The area where the TV would be is 2 feet deep so the wall mount will have to have the arms extended out probably at least 18" and it would be suspended on top of the TV stand - would you still go with the wall mount? A big part of my hesitance comes from the fact that I've never had a wall mount and the fact that looks is important inorder to satisfy the Wife Aproval Factor.

Thanks again

 

[FirstReflection]

Sorry...I gotta run, so this will be quick.

Check out this list of wall mounts that are compatible with the KRP-600M/PRO-141FD

If you need for the display to be out about 18" from the wall, then what you need is an articulating wall mount or a cantilever wall mount. I believe there are a couple of compatible options on that list

Just do a quick google product search for those models (might as well check the whole list, just to see what's available.

I quite like Peerless mounts myself. Good prices and they work well. But give that list a check and you should be able to find something. If the price is higher than the table-top stand, then perhaps that will work better. But the wall mount will likely be cheaper, so at least check to see what might work

 

[billy p]

Obviously your not from Canada. You have no idea about the prices up here and how screwed up it really is. LCD in Canada for some strange reason is considerably cheaper than an equivalent screen/resolution plasma model. I wish it weren't like that

I reside in Canada and that not entirely true. You can find excellent plasmas at every budget! It really boils down to the LCD hype(IMO) or what your needs are...

 

[FirstReflection]

3dB As a side question I was looking to buy a flat panel Tv for my parents who live in Montreal around $800. I've been looking at the Samsung - LN40A550 - 40" LCD TV but it would be from an American online vendor. Do you have any suggestions for places to buy from a canadian website so I can save on the shipping? Does anyone have other suggestions for a comparable size and priced TV equal/better quality?

Thanks

First up, once again, depending on the lighting conditions in your parents' room, plasma might be a better choice. In the low price range, I actually really like Samsung's plasmas! While Panasonic still delivers slightly deeper black levels, Samsung's plasmas offer more accurate colour, a satisfyingly deep black level, better black level retention in ambient lighting and generally lower prices. So don't overlook something like the Samsung PN42B550 plasma because it is quite a good display!

Now, the one downside is that glossy screen surface. The thing is, Samsung's LCD screens are also glossy! So to be honest, I would take a Samsung plasma over a Samsung LCD almost every time. The one exception would be an extremely bright room in which the LCD could simply crank out more brightness.

For buying in Canada, we honestly don't have much in the way of good, online dealers. I far prefer to buy at a local store. Check for a Audio Video Unlimited in your parents' area. AVU is a great franchise chain in Canada, so they're probably my top recommendation. Visions is also good and there are always Futureshop and Best Buy.

You should be able to find a nice display in the 40"-42" size for easily under $1000 Can. Like I say, my top recommendation for that size and price would probably be a Samsung plasma.

Good luck!

 

[musta9]

Sorry...I gotta run, so this will be quick.

Check out this list of wall mounts that are compatible with the KRP-600M/PRO-141FD

If you need for the display to be out about 18" from the wall, then what you need is an articulating wall mount or a cantilever wall mount. I believe there are a couple of compatible options on that list

Just do a quick google product search for those models (might as well check the whole list, just to see what's available.

I quite like Peerless mounts myself. Good prices and they work well. But give that list a check and you should be able to find something. If the price is higher than the table-top stand, then perhaps that will work better. But the wall mount will likely be cheaper, so at least check to see what might work

Thanks again. I looked at the prices with how much it will cost for the krp 600M vs. PDP-6020FD. I think I would just have to go with the PDP-6020FD. Having said that do you guys agree that the difference in picture quality wether night or day between the PDP-6020FD and the panny V10 is worth a $1000 difference in price.

Thanks alot. Sorry to come back to this point but I am almost there.

 

[bandphan]

Thanks again. I looked at the prices with how much it will cost for the krp 600M vs. PDP-6020FD. I think I would just have to go with the PDP-6020FD. Having said that do you guys agree that the difference in picture quality wether night or day between the PDP-6020FD and the panny V10 is worth a $1000 difference in price.

Thanks alot. Sorry to come back to this point but I am almost there.

If it were me I'd take the the V10 over the 6020. And just to add...Its the black detail and the ability to hit the D55 number which is just as important if not more than the difference in overall black levels.

 

[3db]

I reside in Canada and that not entirely true. You can find excellent plasmas at every budget! It really boils down to the LCD hype(IMO) or what your needs are...

I didn't buy into the hype Billy. I looked around my home town and there just wasn't the selection. You live in TO where the selection is like 1000x bigger than where I live. I wanted a 46" or 47" 1080p display and there was nothing in that size range and in Plasma.

 

[billy p]

I didn't buy into the hype Billy. I looked around my home town and there just wasn't the selection. You live in TO where the selection is like 1000x bigger than where I live. I wanted a 46" or 47" 1080p display and there was nothing in that size range and in Plasma.

Ottawa is a big enough city..... Even a 720p plasma would have sufficed at <50"

 

[annunaki]

LCDs perform better in high ambient light conditions than do Plasmas. Up until Sony released its new line of LCDs, plasmas ruled the world in terms of black resolution and shadow detail. But according to last monthes, Home Theater review, most reviewes thought the the Sony LCD was a plasma. I think in the next couple of years that LCD will be on par with Plasma if this Sony is an indication of things to come.

In the same review they also stated that it is all out the window once you get more than 15 degrees off axis, which is not very far.

 

[3db]

Ottawa is a big enough city..... Even a 720p plasma would have sufficed at <50"

Nope. *L* I wanted 1080p ..oh and I forgot one other requirement. because my teenage daughters use it, I was scared of burn in from them leaving teh WII on all the time.

 

[3db]

In the same review they also stated that it is all out the window once you get more than 15 degrees off axis, which is not very far.

Yes they did say that but thats just another obstacle that will be over come in time.

 

[billy p]

Hey 3db....

explain *L* or need I ask...

 

[bandphan]

This will be my last post on Burn In...... I leave news on all day with tickers and none (dogs just love fox news), I also know that most players have screen savers also, so moot point. You would have to leave a static image for days and then maybe. (speaking for pioneer and panny).

 

[musta9]

Thanks again. I looked at the prices with how much it will cost for the krp 600M vs. PDP-6020FD. I think I would just have to go with the PDP-6020FD. Having said that do you guys agree that the difference in picture quality wether night or day between the PDP-6020FD and the panny V10 is worth a $1000 difference in price.

Thanks alot. Sorry to come back to this point but I am almost there.

what do you guys think of LEDs, inspecific I read of two that are in my price range those being the LG 55LH90 and the Samsung UN55B8000 55-Inch? How do those compare to the panny V10 and the pioneer PDP-6020FD.

My main concern here is picture quality. The living room does get light through the sun roof but the rest of the windows does have shutters.

Thanks

 

[FirstReflection]

If your number one concern is picture quality, then the KRP-600M is definitely at the very top of the competition.

After that, it would be a fight between the PDP-6020FD and the Panasonic V10. The Panasonic V10 has advantages, such as more accurate colour. But the PDP-6020FD has the less reflective screen surface and better black level retention in a lit room.

For YOUR room, I would give the nod to the PDP-6020FD because of the bright lighting. In a dim room, I might favour the V10 over the PDP-6020FD, so I can see how people would say that. But in YOUR room, getting good performance in fairly high ambient light means that the better screen surface of the Pioneer really comes into full effect.

The LED edge-lit Samsung LCDs (like the 55B8000 that you mentioned or the B6000 and B7000 series) are just plain not good, IMO. They have uneven illumination across the screen. They have TERRIBLE off-axis viewing. And their screen is like a glossy mirror. There is absolutely nothing about them that makes them a good choice for your room. And if picture quality is your number one concern? RUN! The edge-lit LCDs are NOT for you

The LGs - I'm not as familiar with. But plain and simple, if picture quality is your number one concern, no LCD can match the Pioneer Kuro plasmas. LED Edge-lit LCDs all have problems with uneven illumination and really bad off-axis viewing. Local-dimming LED LCDs are better, but I have yet to see a single one that does not suffer from "blooming" - where a bright object on a black background has a "halo" of light around it. I've also yet to see any LED backlit LCD of any type that has good off-axis viewing. And the incredibly glossy screens - just a travesty! I guess they want it to appeal to vain women who just want to use it as a mirror

How much savings are we talking about here if you buy the PDP-6020FD rather than the KRP-600M + table stand or articulating wall-mount?

If picture quality in the number one concern, the KRP-600M is what you should buy. The PRO-141FD or PRO-151FD would be equally good choices, but they are both more expensive, so the KRP-600M becomes the absolute top choice.

I'm seeing the KRP-600M from BestBuyPCS for about $3000 and then I know from speaking with them that it'll be about $200 for shipping. The official KRP-TS01 stand would set you back about $430 if you buy it from Pioneer and include shipping. So $3630 altogether for that route.

The Peerless SA770PU articulating wall mount can work with the KRP-600M with no adapter plate needed. Several reputable online vendors are showing prices of around $400 shipped. Check a google product search of Buy.com for options.

Total cost is still similar - around $3600

Now, if we compare that to the PDP-6020FD, I'm not seeing prices that are much - if any - lower. Most reputable online vendors are selling the PDP-6020FD for more than $3600 shipped, so I really think the KRP-600M is still a very viable option - even with the cost of the stand or an articulated wall mount included!

Another option to get the price lower is to look for alternative table-top stands. The PDK-1015 is confirmed to fit perfectly with no modifications and frequently shows up for sale on eBay for under $100. The PDK-TS30, PDK-TS30A and PDK-TS35A should also work, but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.

A final option for the KRP-600M would be to actually build out the wall behind the monitor so that you could use a less expensive flat or tilt wall-mount. Several compatible flat and tilt wall-mounts are available for under $100, so if you can build out the wall so that the monitor will be far enough forward, that could work as well

I'm making all of these suggestions because you've made it clear that picture quality is concern number one, that bright lighting conditions are concern number two and that keeping the cost reasonably low is concern number three. That being the case, there really just is no better choice than the KRP-600M. I'm honestly not seeing the PDP-6020FD for any cheaper. Perhaps I'm missing some buying option, but other than scam sites, all the prices are at least around the $3600 mark which is the same or higher than the cost of a KRP-600M plus a wall mount or stand. If you can snag the PDK-1015 stand, it'll definitely be cheaper to go with the KRP-600M, so try to track down one of those for sure and give BestBuyPCS a phone call to grab the KRP-600M!

 

[3db]

explain *L* or need I ask...

laughing .... no biggy

 

[musta9]

If your number one concern is picture quality, then the KRP-600M is definitely at the very top of the competition.

After that, it would be a fight between the PDP-6020FD and the Panasonic V10. The Panasonic V10 has advantages, such as more accurate colour. But the PDP-6020FD has the less reflective screen surface and better black level retention in a lit room.

For YOUR room, I would give the nod to the PDP-6020FD because of the bright lighting. In a dim room, I might favour the V10 over the PDP-6020FD, so I can see how people would say that. But in YOUR room, getting good performance in fairly high ambient light means that the better screen surface of the Pioneer really comes into full effect.

The LED edge-lit Samsung LCDs (like the 55B8000 that you mentioned or the B6000 and B7000 series) are just plain not good, IMO. They have uneven illumination across the screen. They have TERRIBLE off-axis viewing. And their screen is like a glossy mirror. There is absolutely nothing about them that makes them a good choice for your room. And if picture quality is your number one concern? RUN! The edge-lit LCDs are NOT for you

The LGs - I'm not as familiar with. But plain and simple, if picture quality is your number one concern, no LCD can match the Pioneer Kuro plasmas. LED Edge-lit LCDs all have problems with uneven illumination and really bad off-axis viewing. Local-dimming LED LCDs are better, but I have yet to see a single one that does not suffer from "blooming" - where a bright object on a black background has a "halo" of light around it. I've also yet to see any LED backlit LCD of any type that has good off-axis viewing. And the incredibly glossy screens - just a travesty! I guess they want it to appeal to vain women who just want to use it as a mirror

How much savings are we talking about here if you buy the PDP-6020FD rather than the KRP-600M + table stand or articulating wall-mount?

If picture quality in the number one concern, the KRP-600M is what you should buy. The PRO-141FD or PRO-151FD would be equally good choices, but they are both more expensive, so the KRP-600M becomes the absolute top choice.

I'm seeing the KRP-600M from BestBuyPCS for about $3000 and then I know from speaking with them that it'll be about $200 for shipping. The official KRP-TS01 stand would set you back about $430 if you buy it from Pioneer and include shipping. So $3630 altogether for that route.

The Peerless SA770PU articulating wall mount can work with the KRP-600M with no adapter plate needed. Several reputable online vendors are showing prices of around $400 shipped. Check a google product search of Buy.com for options.

Total cost is still similar - around $3600

Now, if we compare that to the PDP-6020FD, I'm not seeing prices that are much - if any - lower. Most reputable online vendors are selling the PDP-6020FD for more than $3600 shipped, so I really think the KRP-600M is still a very viable option - even with the cost of the stand or an articulated wall mount included!

Another option to get the price lower is to look for alternative table-top stands. The PDK-1015 is confirmed to fit perfectly with no modifications and frequently shows up for sale on eBay for under $100. The PDK-TS30, PDK-TS30A and PDK-TS35A should also work, but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.

A final option for the KRP-600M would be to actually build out the wall behind the monitor so that you could use a less expensive flat or tilt wall-mount. Several compatible flat and tilt wall-mounts are available for under $100, so if you can build out the wall so that the monitor will be far enough forward, that could work as well

I'm making all of these suggestions because you've made it clear that picture quality is concern number one, that bright lighting conditions are concern number two and that keeping the cost reasonably low is concern number three. That being the case, there really just is no better choice than the KRP-600M. I'm honestly not seeing the PDP-6020FD for any cheaper. Perhaps I'm missing some buying option, but other than scam sites, all the prices are at least around the $3600 mark which is the same or higher than the cost of a KRP-600M plus a wall mount or stand. If you can snag the PDK-1015 stand, it'll definitely be cheaper to go with the KRP-600M, so try to track down one of those for sure and give BestBuyPCS a phone call to grab the KRP-600M!

I thought that the PDP-6020FD and the KRP-600M are exactly the same with the exception of not having a tuner/speaker/stand. Is that not the case? If not then is there an equivalent Tv to the KRP-600M ?

 

[FirstReflection]

I thought that the PDP-6020FD and the KRP-600M are exactly the same with the exception of not having a tuner/speaker/stand. Is that not the case? If not then is there an equivalent Tv to the KRP-600M ?

No, the PDP-6020FD and KRP-600M are not exactly the same. The KRP-600M is almost identical to the Signature Elite PRO-141FD monitor and is almost identical to the Elite PRO-151FD (except that the 151 has speakers, comes with a stand and has built-in tuners).

The PDP-6020FD does not have the same colour accuracy as the Elite, Signature Elite and KRP models. The PDP also lacks the extensive colour control options, so there really is no way to make the PDP as accurate in colour reproduction. The Elite, Signature Elite and KRP models also use a slightly different panel and glass than the PDP models.

So basically, the PDP-6020FD is at the "bottom" of the Pioneer Kuro 60" lineup. It has speakers, a stand and built-in tuners, but it has less accurate colour, far fewer menu options for adjustment and a slightly different plasma panel and glass.

The PRO-151FD is the Elite version, which also has speakers, a stand and built-in tuners. It has very accurate colours, lots of menu options for adjustment and Pioneer's most advanced plasma panel and glass.

The PRO-141FD is the Signature Elite Monitor. It is physically thinner than the PDP-6020FD and PRO-151FD. It comes with no speakers, no stand and no built-in tuners. But it has the accurate colour and lots of menu options, just like the Elite PRO-151FD. The PRO-141FD also has a hand selected plasma panel and glass.

All of the above have 4 HDMI inputs and can connect to a network via ethernet to stream certain content from a PC.

The KRP-600M is a monitor. It has the same, physically thinner body as the PRO-141FD. And just like the PRO-141FD, it comes with no speakers, no stand and no built-in tuners. It has the accurate colour and lots of menu options. But it has slightly fewer menu options than the PRO-141FD because the PRO-141FD offers ISFccc settings, while the KRP-600M does not. This is not really a big deal. ISFccc settings simply allow an ISF calibrator to make a "day" and "night" picture setting and then lock them so that they cannot be accidentally changed. The KRP-600M can be equally calibrated, it's just that you'll have to use one of the regular picture modes.

The KRP-600M uses the same plasma panels and glass as the PRO-141FD, it's just that they are not specifically hand selected. The KRP-600M also has 2 HDMI inputs (not 4) and it cannot connect to a network to stream content from a PC. The KRP does have an ethernet port, but it is only used to check settings via a web application.

So that's that!

The PRO-151FD, PRO-141FD and KRP-600M are all basically the same in terms of image quality. But the PDP-6020FD is a slight step down from all of them. It's mainly that the PDP-6020FD just has less accurate colours, and also that there are no menu options in the PDP-6020FD to make the colours accurate.