HELP with TV selection PLease

[musta9]

Hi I am trying on deciding on a TV (flatscreen) I would appreciate your thoughts

I am 12 feet away from the TV. I can fit aprox. 60" TV. There is alot of ambiant light - some of which can be controlled with shutters on the windows but I also have two moon roofs which lets in light ALOT - I live in a very sunny city.
I donot watch sports AT ALL

I play PS3 games alot.

In order of importance:
-picture quality
-size of TV
-cost (hopefully 2000-3000)
-being able to play games

I am also going to be getting a Denon 3808 reciever with Def Tech Mythos Ones (front) + Eight(center) and hopefully an oppo 980H or bdp-83

I really appreciate the help

 

[bandphan]

I see no reason that a plasma shouldn't be a consideration. Check out the G-V series pannys.

 

[AVRat]

Yep, the 58" V10 would be sweet. I'm considering the 65" as a Xmas present!

 

[3db]

LCDs perform better in high ambient light conditions than do Plasmas. Up until Sony released its new line of LCDs, plasmas ruled the world in terms of black resolution and shadow detail. But according to last monthes, Home Theater review, most reviewes thought the the Sony LCD was a plasma. I think in the next couple of years that LCD will be on par with Plasma if this Sony is an indication of things to come.

 

[billy p]

LCDs perform better in high ambient light conditions than do Plasmas. Up until Sony released its new line of LCDs, plasmas ruled the world in terms of black resolution and shadow detail. But according to last monthes, Home Theater review, most reviewes thought the the Sony LCD was a plasma. I think in the next couple of years that LCD will be on par with Plasma if this Sony is an indication of things to come.

Huh...are you talking about the New organic lcd's from sony that start @ $2500.00 for a 10" screen? IMO dollar for dollar plasma is the better choice.

 

[AVRat]

Here's the article, the Panny Plasma still took top honors but not by much. http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panels/5_on_the_line_flat_panel_face_off/

 

[3db]

Here's the article, the Panny Plasma still took top honors but not by much. http://hometheatermag.com/flat-panels/5_on_the_line_flat_panel_face_off/

Yes it took top honours but look how good the Sony faired in black levels. Its just a matter of time unless real LED screens obsoletes both.

 

[musta9]

thank you all for the replies and help. Do you guys have any suggestions as were I should buy the TV from? online vs. store - how about warranty? I've also read threads suggesting cosco because a free extended warranty- is this still the case? Any specific sites you guys reccommend?

THanks again.

 

[3db]

thank you all for the replies and help. Do you guys have any suggestions as were I should buy the TV from? online vs. store - how about warranty? I've also read threads suggesting cosco because a free extended warranty- is this still the case? Any specific sites you guys reccommend?

THanks again.

I bought my Vizio at Costco and it comes with a 2 year waranty. Its all I could afford budget wise. The only thing that beat this display on teh Costoc floor was a Panny Plasma but it was $300 more for a smaller screen and only 720p. The 1080p Panny was $600 more than the Vizio.

I only mentioned Vizio becuase you mentioned Costco and warranty. Take a look for yourself and decide.

 

[FirstReflection]

If you're in the USA, for the LOVE OF GOODNESS, look for a Pioneer KRP-600M!

This is a 60" Kuro Monitor. You can find it for around $3000 - maybe a few hundred extra depending on the retailer. But it's WELL worth it...especially in your situation!

Things to note:

1) It is a monitor ONLY - no speakers, no table-top stand, no ATSC/NTSC tuners. If you wall mount it and have a cable or satellite box, then this is no problem! You've already said that you're getting seperate speakers + receiver, so the no speakers part is no worry

2) This is the best plasma for a bright room. While the Panasonic plasmas are not too bad, the Pioneer screen shows fewer refelctions and retains better black levels. It's simply a better screen surface for bright rooms and, IMO, it's better than most of the LCD screens out there right now because so many LCD screens are now highly glossy! Sony's LCDs are one exception - they are still basically a matte finish. But you won't be finding a Sony LCD in the 60" size for this price!

Do a google product search and you should be able to find the KRP-600M for a great price! WARNING: make SURE you call on the PHONE before placing ANY order. For an item this big and fragile and expensive, do NOT trust an online ordering system. Call on the phone and make sure they answer ALL of your concerns!

Best of luck!

 

[njedpx3]

Plasma ambient light - user experience

LCDs perform better in high ambient light conditions than do Plasmas. Up until Sony released its new line of LCDs, plasmas ruled the world in terms of black resolution and shadow detail. But according to last monthes, Home Theater review, most reviewes thought the the Sony LCD was a plasma. I think in the next couple of years that LCD will be on par with Plasma if this Sony is an indication of things to come.

I have a 60" plasma, I am about 10' away and have a lot of ambient light during the day. The picture is excellent even with a lot of ambient light. I have the Pioneer Elite Kuro, but the 60" Pioneer Kuro is almost the same quality and it fits within $700 the upper end of your price range.

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60" Plasma HDTV. It's black is so, so black it looks like the TV is turned off.


====

And lastly, before the 60" I had a 37" LCD which i thought looked great ... that was until 60"

..... so one other option to consider Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD which is the 50" plasma that gos for $2999




I agree if you want to stick in you price range the Panasonic plasma is excellent as well as the LG plasma.

Anyway don't discount plasma in ambient light

 

[FirstReflection]

I have a 60" plasma, I am about 10' away and have a lot of ambient light during the day. The picture is excellent even with a lot of ambient light. I have the Pioneer Elite Kuro, but the 60" Pioneer Kuro is almost the same quality and it fits within $700 the upper end of your price range.

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60" Plasma HDTV. It's black is so, so black it looks like the TV is turned off.

..... so one other option to consider Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD which is the 50" plasma that gos for $2999

Yup - and this is why I so highly recommend the KRP-600M if you can get by without the TV speakers, table-top stand and ATSC/NTSC tuners. Same price as the non-Elite 50" PDP-5020FD, but with the size and picture quality of the Signature Elite PRO-141FD!

The Pioneer Kuro plasmas really are the way to go if you can get one. The V10 Panny plasmas are a nice "second best", but they just aren't quite up to the same level. Don't get me wrong, the V10 plasmas are excellent and would make a very good choice. But the Pioneer Kuro plasmas are still a cut above and the KRP-600M puts them within reach price-wise with the 60" size that you want!

The Samsung and LG plasmas have the same problem as the Samsung LCDs - which is a highly glossy screen surface that really is distracting in a brightyly-lit room. If you must go LCD, get one that has a matte screen. But the problem is finding something close to 60" for around $3000! That really just isn't the norm with LCDs. Not yet, anyway.

So Pio Kuro plasma. But hurry! They are no longer being manufactured and they truthfully are selling out now. Check ebay, check amazon and check google product search. Track down a KRP-600M, call the seller on the phone and get yourself the absolute best display for your situation!

Good luck!

 

[3db]

I have a 60" plasma, I am about 10' away and have a lot of ambient light during the day. The picture is excellent even with a lot of ambient light. I have the Pioneer Elite Kuro, but the 60" Pioneer Kuro is almost the same quality and it fits within $700 the upper end of your price range.

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60" Plasma HDTV. It's black is so, so black it looks like the TV is turned off.


====

And lastly, before the 60" I had a 37" LCD which i thought looked great ... that was until 60"

..... so one other option to consider Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD which is the 50" plasma that gos for $2999




I agree if you want to stick in you price range the Panasonic plasma is excellent as well as the LG plasma.

Anyway don't discount plasma in ambient light

I've seen first hand how deteroared a plasma looks in strong ambient light conditions. It really does affect the output. The folks at HT also said taht the Panny Plamsa performance dropped considerably during lighted conditions and fell below some of the LCDs there. I will continue to discount plasma in strong ambient light conditions based on what I've seen and read.

 

[njedpx3]

I've seen first hand how deteroared a plasma looks in strong ambient light conditions. It really does affect the output. The folks at HT also said taht the Panny Plamsa performance dropped considerably during lighted conditions and fell below some of the LCDs there. I will continue to discount plasma in strong ambient light conditions based on what I've seen and read.

3db,

All I am saying is I watch a plasma daily ( day and night) in high ambient light conditions and there is no problem viewing the TV. The plasma is the main part of my open den HT system. To the left of the room is a large open archway that leads to the 2 story open glass foyer. There is a bank of shuttered windows to the right which are usually open. The back opens up to a granite kitchen bar and the kitchen and kitchen nook both of which are borderd by two sides of shuttered windows, again the shutters are usually open. Directly in back over the stove is an uncover arched window over the stove.

I previously had a 37" LCD and trying to remember back the picture wasn't any better or worse albiet smaller.

Anyway peace, just trying to give OP some practical experience and acceptability of plasma in high ambient light conditions.

 

[FirstReflection]

I've seen first hand how deteroared a plasma looks in strong ambient light conditions. It really does affect the output. The folks at HT also said taht the Panny Plamsa performance dropped considerably during lighted conditions and fell below some of the LCDs there. I will continue to discount plasma in strong ambient light conditions based on what I've seen and read.

3db,

All I am saying is I watch a plasma daily ( day and night) in high ambient light conditions and there is no problem viewing the TV. The plasma is the main part of my open den HT system. To the left of the room is a large open archway that leads to the 2 story open glass foyer. There is a bank of shuttered windows to the right which are usually open. The back opens up to a granite kitchen bar and the kitchen and kitchen nook both of which are borderd by two sides of shuttered windows, again the shutters are usually open. Directly in back over the stove is an uncover arched window over the stove.

I previously had a 37" LCD and trying to remember back the picture wasn't any better or worse albiet smaller.

Anyway peace, just trying to give OP some practical experience and acceptability of plasma in high ambient light conditions.

It is very important to keep in mind that not all plasmas are equal and not all LCDs are equal. I agree with 3db that many plasmas, including the Panasonic plasmas, really do not fare well in bright rooms. Some, like the LG and Samsung plasmas, have highly glossy screens that become distracting with reflections and/or glare. Others, like the Panasonic plasmas, wash out and do not retain their black levels.

But the Pioneer Kuro plasmas are a different breed. They retain their black levels quite well. They are capable of being calibrated to output a bright, punchy image and their anti-reflective screen is quite effective and mitigates much of the glare and reflections that plague other displays.

njedpx3 said that he has a Pioneer Elite plasma. And, to me, that would explain why he is able to enjoy a great image, even in a very bright room. This isn't "plasma vs. LCD", it's Kuro vs. everything else - even other plasmas

 

[3db]

It is very important to keep in mind that not all plasmas are equal and not all LCDs are equal. I agree with 3db that many plasmas, including the Panasonic plasmas, really do not fare well in bright rooms. Some, like the LG and Samsung plasmas, have highly glossy screens that become distracting with reflections and/or glare. Others, like the Panasonic plasmas, wash out and do not retain their black levels.

But the Pioneer Kuro plasmas are a different breed. They retain their black levels quite well. They are capable of being calibrated to output a bright, punchy image and their anti-reflective screen is quite effective and mitigates much of the glare and reflections that plague other displays.

njedpx3 said that he has a Pioneer Elite plasma. And, to me, that would explain why he is able to enjoy a great image, even in a very bright room. This isn't "plasma vs. LCD", it's Kuro vs. everything else - even other plasmas

Well put. I understand that now and would have to agree. The only thing wrong with Kurio is their cost. Beautiful sets but expensive.

 

[FirstReflection]

In general, prices for the Kuro plasmas have been high - can't argue with that! But there are two big reasons to still consider a Kuro for the OP's situation:

1) at the 60"-ish screen size, LCD prices are still very high. So on that front, LCDs really do not hold any advantage over a Kuro.

2) compared to other 58"-65" plasmas, there is no question that Samsung, LG and Panasonic all offer models that are less expensive than the Kuros. If the only options were the PDP-6020FD, PRO-151FD and PRO-141FD, I would have to agree that price puts those Kuros into another bracket and out of the OP's desired price range. But the KRP-600M is the "magic" Kuro that manages to bring its price close to those other models while still delivering the performance advantages that all Kuros offer!

Even at the higher price points though, the other Kuros are still worth it, IMO. This is a case where the buyer really is getting more and better performance for the extra money. It's such a shame that Pioneer abandoned all plasma manufacturing. It wasn't solely the deep, deep black levels that made them so good. It was a combination of so many facets. And because of this, I honestly do not foresee another display in the near future that will equal the Kuro in all of its many, many strengths.

 

[musta9]

Thanks for the advice. I am seriously considering the Kuro PDP-6020FD and the krp 600M. The only problem is that my wall is comprised of multiple shelves. I would have the TV on the ground level on top of a TV stand - so is there any way to make the KRP-600M work for me? I also donot if I need an ATSC/NTSC tuner - I have a Tivo, Denon 3808 reciever or I can get a cable box through Time warner - would any of those do the trick? I would like to get this TV if at all possible.

Alternatively, the Kuro PDP-6020FD is aproximately a $1000 more expensive than the panny v10 58" - is the difference worth it?

Thanks again

 

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

It's true that LCD's can stand up better to high ambient light conditions vs. plasmas, but consider that most HDTVs are not located in sun rooms and in moderate and low ambient light conditions plasma panels look far better than any LCD. Further, if you consider the cost difference, even for a Kuro, plasma's tend to be lower cost, especially for larger screen sizes.

Most TV viewing is in the evening and if you view in the daytime soft window treatments will greatly improve the picture and audio quality for plasma and even LCDs as all TV technologies will perform better in controlled lighting environments.

So for those who want a HDTV in a sun room and will be using the TV for mostly daytime viewing by all means go ahead and buy a LCD panel, all others will be well advised to buy any plasma.

Sorry to start a controversy, but I tell the truth regardless if it's liked or not.

-Robert

 

[FirstReflection]

Thanks for the advice. I am seriously considering the Kuro PDP-6020FD and the krp 600M. The only problem is that my wall is comprised of multiple shelves. I would have the TV on the ground level on top of a TV stand - so is there any way to make the KRP-600M work for me? I also donot if I need an ATSC/NTSC tuner - I have a Tivo, Denon 3808 reciever or I can get a cable box through Time warner - would any of those do the trick? I would like to get this TV if at all possible.

Alternatively, the Kuro PDP-6020FD is aproximately a $1000 more expensive than the panny v10 58" - is the difference worth it?

Thanks again

There is a stand for the KRP-600M. It's just that you have to buy it seperately and the price is around $400. You can get it for cheaper if you simply buy it as "replacement parts" directly from Pioneer's Replacement Parts website.

The exact parts you would need to order are AXY1212, AXY1221 and two of the AXY1222. In order, those are the bolts/screws, the base and the "legs" (which is why you need 2 of them). Getting the stand as seperate replacement parts directly from Pioneer makes the total cost of the stand about $300.

Possibly a better option though is to get a wall mount. Even if you plan to place the display above a TV stand, there is no real reason why you cannot mount the monitor to the wall. I favor the Peerless ST670 SmartMount, which gives you the option to tilt the KRP-600M. I highly recommend Mounts and More as they offer a great price - about $90 - and great service. Give them a call on the phone. Sometimes, their website will show the wall mount as being out of stock, but they can check with their warehouse and often confirm that they actually have it in stock a ready to ship!

Of course, if you go with the PDP-6020FD instead, that model will come with a table-top stand. Even if you went for the KRP-600M and bought the table-top stand for that model seperately though, I believe it would still be less expensive than the PDP-6020FD and it would definitely be less expensive if you went with the Peerless ST670 wall mount.

You do have to be careful about what wall mount you buy. The Pioneer 60" plasmas do not conform to the same standards as a lot of other large displays, so you have to make sure that the wall mount you choose will specifically work with the KRP-600M. If it says that it will work with the PRO-141FD, that is the same thing. The KRP-600M and PRO-141FD share the exact same mounting design

In your bright room, I would personally say that either Kuro IS worth the price over the 58" Panasonic V10. The Kuro plasmas retain their black levels better and the screen is noticably less reflective. Those two traits combine to make the Kuro definitely look better than the V10 in a bright room.

The V10 has no advantages over the KRP-600M. The V10 does have a bit of an advantage in colour accuracy over the PDP-6020FD. But if your only choices are the V10 and the PDP-6020FD, I would still go for the PDP-6020FD because of the black level retention and reflective screen issues. If you can make the KRP-600M work for you, then it is no contest - KRP-600M all the way!

If you have a cable box or a satellite box or a Tivo, then there is no need for a ATSC/NTSC tuner in your display. So really, the only concern for you with the KRP-600M is how you will place it. If you want to stand it on your shelf or TV stand, then it'll cost you $300-$400 for the seperate stand. If you can mount it to the wall, then you can easily do so for under $100 extra!

Best of luck!