DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[jinjuku]

I don't know of anyone who still hasn't had their ULW/UFW amp replaced. They were all replaced/tested/shipped or just the amps shipped for the user to replace. I myself, received two updated amps several months ago.

Did they fit? Were any DOA? Did you have to 180 any connector?

 

[MinusTheBear]

I have heard three different GR Research speakers. They are damn nice for the money. While I am not likely to confuse him with the likes of Joe D' Appolito far as contributions, his designs are solid and can hold their own against other premium brands that I have heard.



Didn't ask you to hold your tongue in any capacity. From what I gather with my experience with with you at AVSForum, it is quite impossible. The last thread being some silly argument about the legality of UL and/or other marks missing on the Emotiva ERC1.



I recall NAD, like almost EVERY other manufacturer has had some products that were less than stellar. NAD had a few hiccups with receivers some time ago. Nothing in recent memory however leads me to believe that they are not a top notch outfit. I mean if you want to pick nits look at the problematic Monster power amps (as designed by Richard Marsh). Every one has their down periods.

I have heard three different GR Research speakers. They are damn nice for the money. While I am not likely to confuse him with the likes of Joe D' Appolito far as contributions, his designs are solid and can hold their own against other premium brands that I have heard.

I googled for AV123 and the only truly significant thread is here at AH. I am not discounting the OP's issue/s. I know that people had problems with the initial run of the MFW-15. I am also aware that they were taken care of. Same thing for the Elemental Designs A3-500. They had to replace a lot of amps. Were there threads about it? sure. Did they take care of the back log, yes. Are they still alive and kicking, bringing great value to this segment, they sure are.

Emotiva had some serious pre-amp problems early on. They stumbled, they recovered.

A sign of a great company is not how they conduct everyday business. It's how they handle adversity. From what I have read the slighted AV123 customers are getting taken care of.
*** FYI I own ZERO AV123 product.

The OP of this thread still has not received his refund or product in which he paid MLS 10 months ago. AV123 is also still accepting pre-payment for LS speakers. I do not see this as getting things taken care or evolving their business practices to better than company in any way because these are the types of things which have caused their business and customers so many problems.

This is not the only thread involving this company. There is a much more detailed and disturbing thread on AVS, however if you read a sticky in the subwoofer forum, they have temporarily removed it.

 

[ivseenbetter]

I thought the OPs problem was with MLS...not AV123.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I thought the OPs problem was with MLS...not AV123.

I am not sure where it was said otherwise, but here is to what I was referring too.

Nah, still nothing. MLS just sent me an email this weekend(after 2 months of not responding to my emails) and he says it will be taken care of before the month is over. Let's just say I'm a little skeptical. This Saturday will make it 10 months since I originally paid him.

 

[ivseenbetter]

I am not sure where it was said otherwise, but here is to what I was referring too.

Your right. I was reading too fast. Sorry for misconstruing your post.

 

[ack_bak]

I thought the OPs problem was with MLS...not AV123.

IMHO, same difference.

 

[ivseenbetter]

IMHO, same difference.

It definitely taints AV123 when the pres of the company is involved in shady dealings. I don't disagree with you on that. They have a lot of bad juju right now. However, I am hoping that AV123 proper (i'm talking the formal company) can get it together and fix thier problems and come out of this. Part of that is seperating their problems from MLS problems. That seperation might just be wishful thinking though. I'm hoping someday I can recommend them to folks again.

Hey, have I mentioned lately how much I love my MFW 15s and Rockets? I consider myself lucky since I am one of those guys who actually received good products from AV123.

 

[just-some-guy]

test
.......................

 

[abboudc]

AFAIK a lot of this has actually been taken care of. I haven't seen any major grumbling for the past 3 months.

Funny how shutting down the forum will do that.

People are still out there and grumbling (including this thread). People resorting to posting on the forum to get attention for their issues because phone calls and emails weren't being answered. Shutting down the forum closed that "loophole". While angry customers can post threads such as this one in other forums, it doesn't do anything to actually get the issue resolved as there's no guarantee AV123 will even see it. So why bother? That said, i've seen at least one of these threads on every forum i've visited...

I don't think it's so much about kicking them when they're down as holding them accountable for their own extremely bad business decisions... Some people will pile on and say "i told you", but the majority of the "issues" on their own forum were from paying customers that didn't get product, or had issues with product received. That percentage went down a bit once they closed their forum and the refugees migrated to other forums as non-customers had other agendas. But none of that would have happened if people actually got what they paid for originally.

 

[fredk]

From posts on other forums it looks like replacement amps for the MFW15 are going out now. I'm quite amaze that AV123 has made it this far.

 

[TjMV3]

I still stand by my statement that peoples true stripes come out when faced with true adversity. You know what they are made of. I never enjoyed kicking people in the teeth while they are down. Especially when they are trying to get back up and turn it all around. Let me know if you can't read between the lines on this. I will spell it out for you.

Well, apparently his true stripes scream loud and clear. Because he continues to string along customers who paid their money a long time ago. And he continues to play the same game that got him into this mess.

It's not about kicking someone in the teeth when they are down. This is clearly a situation where many, many customers have been taken advantage of and continue to get hung out to dry; without a refund.

Promises....deadlines....more promises.....more bullsh*t.

This whole concept and mindset of defending and empathizing with the perpetrator, is absurdly insane.

I don't feel sorry for Mark or AV123.

I empathize with the victims.

He (Mark) knew what he was doing and after all the nonsense and people who have been strung along.....or ignored for so long; without ever receiving a prompt refund. He continues to run the very same kind of sham deal offers....that got him into this mess.

This is outrageous. How anyone can defend or empathize with this type business ethic, is beyond me.

 

[rmk]

There is an old saying that goes something like “hope springs eternal in the sales heart”.

That pretty much sums up MLS. The therapeutic value of threads like this for the “wronged” are undeniable but this has gone way beyond the squeaky wheel analogy.

The obvious malfeasance aside, MLS lack of correcting and compensating isn’t due to anything other than he doesn’t have the money. AV123 customers will be not be properly compensated unless the company can avert the disaster that at this point seems inevitable.

This thread is just p*ssing into the wind (IMHO).

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm pretty much an uninterested, but slightly curious bystander on this issue with AV123. I admit to not having read every word of this lengthy thread. But I have to say that I can't understand why ANYONE would indulge in buying from them with the current state of affairs being so public...even if the speakers are a golden-ears-dream, which they apparently are not. Buying from them now seemingly represents some sort of psychological self-loathing and masochism. Secondly, I don't understand why no one has filed formal complaints with their local U.S. attorney's office regarding what seems to be some pretty obvious interstate fraud.

Can someone educate me as to why or what I'm not getting, here?

 

[Ron Temple]

The obvious malfeasance aside, MLS lack of correcting and compensating isn’t due to anything other than he doesn’t have the money.
This thread is just p*ssing into the wind (IMHO).

That's my read on the situation. It remains to be seen if the corrective steps currently in place are too little, too late and if MLS has the personal resources to maintain momentum. I hope so for the sake of those waiting for resolution.

 

[MinusTheBear]

If anyone has sought legal action I doubt you would hear about it on a forum. Lawyers generally do not like their clients speaking publically on such issues once they are involved.

 

[just listening]

Federal and state attorney's have absolutely no case against AV123 and MLS. If they did, AV123 would have filed for bankruptcy, and probably quickly sold the operation to a new entity to avoid prosecution. Instead, you have a company that can point to a recall/replacement of subwoofer amplifiers that is nearing completion. And the endless delays and now slowly the shipping of LS6 & LS9's to customers. I do hope the OP does get his LS6's very soon. I heard a version of them at RMAF and for the price they are pretty phenomenal.

This is not to say a private attorney couldn't cause some hell, I'm sure they could.

As for the issue of having sales and taking orders with deposit on products not yet in stock, as long as the buyer is made aware (bad business or not considering what has happened) it is not illegal as long as the buyer is made aware of it up front. Since the ads clearly state that product has not yet arrived, it is 100% legal. It is no different from quality furniture stores taking orders for products that take 6-14 weeks to be manufactured and delivered.

The marketplace will dictate whether AV123 survives, I'm betting as an audio hobbyist and a taxpayer that they not only survive, but truly learn from their mistakes and return to being an audio success story.

 

[jinjuku]

Well, apparently his true stripes scream loud and clear. Because he continues to string along customers who paid their money a long time ago. And he continues to play the same game that got him into this mess.

It's not about kicking someone in the teeth when they are down. This is clearly a situation where many, many customers have been taken advantage of and continue to get hung out to dry; without a refund.

Promises....deadlines....more promises.....more bullsh*t.

This whole concept and mindset of defending and empathizing with the perpetrator, is absurdly insane.

I don't feel sorry for Mark or AV123.

I empathize with the victims.

He (Mark) knew what he was doing and after all the nonsense and people who have been strung along.....or ignored for so long; without ever receiving a prompt refund. He continues to run the very same kind of sham deal offers....that got him into this mess.

This is outrageous. How anyone can defend or empathize with this type business ethic, is beyond me.

Sorry, I had read some threads were people were talking about things being taken care of.

 

[jinjuku]

Other threads as of recently as EOM June have users talking about amps being shipped and the LS series getting taken care of... Just an FYI btw.

 

[engtaz]

very true.

 

[dylancash]

Federal and state attorney's have absolutely no case against AV123 and MLS. If they did, AV123 would have filed for bankruptcy, and probably quickly sold the operation to a new entity to avoid prosecution. Instead, you have a company that can point to a recall/replacement of subwoofer amplifiers that is nearing completion. And the endless delays and now slowly the shipping of LS6 & LS9's to customers. I do hope the OP does get his LS6's very soon. I heard a version of them at RMAF and for the price they are pretty phenomenal.

This is not to say a private attorney couldn't cause some hell, I'm sure they could.

As for the issue of having sales and taking orders with deposit on products not yet in stock, as long as the buyer is made aware (bad business or not considering what has happened) it is not illegal as long as the buyer is made aware of it up front. Since the ads clearly state that product has not yet arrived, it is 100% legal. It is no different from quality furniture stores taking orders for products that take 6-14 weeks to be manufactured and delivered.

The marketplace will dictate whether AV123 survives, I'm betting as an audio hobbyist and a taxpayer that they not only survive, but truly learn from their mistakes and return to being an audio success story.

OK, forget about the unethical prepay system they have there, when they know fully well that the items people are prepaying for are years away, not weeks or months like promised. Forget about the questionable quality of their products. Forget about their bad communication if you have a problem or need a refund.

What about the admitted 2 charities he defrauded? He has admitted to stealing or "underfunding" tens of thousands of dollars acting as a middle man for charitable contributions. It has been said that his skimming of charity money could reach into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can't verify that myself, but the tens of thousands has been admitted by Mark himself, so I would tend to believe the trustworthy people who claim they have proof he cheated other charities also. Regardless, I would imagine that would get him into some deep legal trouble. As of today, AV123 has raised over 230k for charities. As of today, Mark has admitted to stealing from every charity he has been directly accused of stealing from (2 for 2, not including the owner of Ascend Acoustics accusing him of stealing from his father's charity also, but that wasn't a direct accusation). Makes you really wonder.