DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Soundman]

As to their employing designers having made speakers costing upwards of $100,000, just who is in that stable of designers? Names and speakers please.
QUOTE]

I don't have verifiable information at my fingertips, but have you heard of Danny Richie? He's designed speakers for companies like ERA, Epiphany, Usher, others too. His company GR Research sells products designed for DIY'ers. He has extensive experience with loudspeaker design. I personally really like some of his crossover designs. My point is that the design of AV123's products should not be in question.
They are also very well built. I should add, like a tank. My 850's weigh like 100 pounds. I've opened them up. They obviously didn't skimp on quality components here.

 

[Chu Gai]

Yeah, I've heard of him but you'll forgive me if I don't think he's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[Soundman]

Yeah, I've heard of him but you'll forgive me if I don't think he's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Well, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but I tend to have a little respect for people who have been in the industry that long and has been that successfull, especially considering some of the companies that have employed him.

 

[just listening]

Yeah, I've heard of him but you'll forgive me if I don't think he's the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Danny Richie is at the forefront of getting the most out of a speaker design. I believe he was also awarded by one of the most prestigious, if not the most pretigious audio engineering society for his work. The fact that so many companies use him to review new speaker designs and request improvements says a great deal. Talk with any manufacturer at RMAF, even his competitors, and the respect is absolute.

 

[Chu Gai]

Jeez Louise. Don't keep us in suspense. What was the most prestigious audio engineering award? If so many companies use him to review speaker designs and request improvements that might speak more to those companies utter lack of competent in-house staff. As to respect being absolute, I beg to differ. You like him and think he's cutting edge with a wealth of scientific knowledge, great.

 

[Soundman]

Jeez Louise. Don't keep us in suspense. What was the most prestigious audio engineering award? If so many companies use him to review speaker designs and request improvements that might speak more to those companies utter lack of competent in-house staff. As to respect being absolute, I beg to differ. You like him and think he's cutting edge with a wealth of scientific knowledge, great.

Look, my point in mentioning Dannie Richie wasn't to imply that he's the greatest man that ever lived. My point is that he's helped design most of AV123's speakers. I mentioned him only to help support that AV123 does produce high quality loudspeakers because some of your previous comments sounded as if the company is producing junk products. I would have gotten rid of these speakers long ago if they were garbage.

 

[gmichael]

I still love my Mini's. And no, they are not for sale.

 

[Chu Gai]

With AV123, it's hard to tell just who designed what over there. It's also hard to figure out if they have additional scopes of responsibility once someone has been paid (and some still haven't been paid) for the initial work. I don't even know if DR and Seaton are still on board in any capacity. But you must've read your share about people who've received speakers with bum drivers (admittedly replaced fairly promptly in most cases), veneer issues, etc. Now, yours appear to be fine. That's great and I mean it. But I tend to take a larger view of things and not all is so rosey in Perpetual Technologies land. Maybe the amp thing was a giant wake up call. But there's a lot other issues that've already been discussed at length that need a fixin'.

BTW, did you see the new Gloves Are On picture? This one looks serious!

 

[calnbs]

Some of you guys crack me up. Instead of wasting time telling us how much AV123 speaker suck....shouldn't some of you guys go and build your own speakers and let your work do the talking? By all means. If they suck so much, I will be more than willing to sell my Rocket speakers and buy your brand. Talk is cheap....I would definately like to see someone build a 5.0 system with similar casing that would outshine the Rockets for under $2k. Until then.....Talk is cheap.

I'm quite serious about this. I have $2K right now waiting for a 5.0 system that is supposely can be built better than the Rockets in both in sound and looks.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Some of you guys crack me up. Instead of wasting time telling us how much AV123 speaker suck....shouldn't some of you guys go and build your own speakers and let your work do the talking? By all means. If they suck so much, I will be more than willing to sell my Rocket speakers and buy your brand. Talk is cheap....I would definately like to see someone build a 5.0 system with similar casing that would outshine the Rockets for under $2k. Until then.....Talk is cheap.

I'm quite serious about this. I have $2K right now waiting for a 5.0 system that is supposely can be built better than the Rockets in both in sound and looks.

You might want to PM WmAx. He can provide you with very specific and detailed information concerning the build quality and measured performance of speakers (cabinet resonance, quality of drivers, credible measurments etc) that will perform better than the Rockets in the 2k range.

 

[Chu Gai]

I get the feeling looks are pretty important to you calnbs.

 

[calnbs]

You might want to PM WmAx. He can provide you with very specific and detailed information concerning the build quality and measured performance of speakers (cabinet resonance, quality of drivers, credible measurments etc) that will perform better than the Rockets in the 2k range.

WmAx is very knowledgable and I would have no doubt he can come up with something amazing but he's not taking orders. I would love to see what he can put together for 2K.

I would really love to see some custom built speakers that will blow my socks off and at the same time....it fits my budget.

Chu Gai,

I have to agree that looks play a role in my speaker selection. I'm not going to lie but the truth is....with all this talk about how shitty and fake Rockets are....I would like someone to step up to the plate and deliver what AV123 has supposely failed to do....Great speakers for under $2K. I'm no expert but Rockets seem fine to me. Are they the best thing since slice bread?....NO....but they aren't garbage either. If someone else think they can do better....by all means....I'm all ears and I have a check waiting for them. Because I like everyone else....Always looking to upgrade and looking for the next deal.

 

[jinjuku]

Jeez Louise. Don't keep us in suspense. What was the most prestigious audio engineering award? If so many companies use him to review speaker designs and request improvements that might speak more to those companies utter lack of competent in-house staff. As to respect being absolute, I beg to differ. You like him and think he's cutting edge with a wealth of scientific knowledge, great.

Chu Gai,

You asked for a name and you received one. You are like some of the guys at Polk forums. They ask what amps I have personal experience with. I happen to mention NAD (they make GREAT amps) and all they can to is dis-respect NAD

You are down right dissing Dannie Richie. Last I checked he was behind some pretty amazing speaker designs. This would leave me to ask what speaker designs are you known for?

 

[Chu Gai]

I asked for a person's name that was said to have been instrumental in the design of $100,000 speakers. I also asked just what was this prestigious AES award that was conferred upon DR. I've yet to receive a reply. Dissing DR? Like I said earlier he's not the sharpest knife but he's a good self-promoter.

Now, in an attempt to both silence me and any critique of DR or AV123 you ask me what designs I'm known for? I'm not. I could ask you the same thing, no? You don't need to have commercially designed speakers or crossovers in order to sing his praises do you? I base my comments on a reading of his posts both here and elsewhere on a variety of topics.

As to NAD products, I've nothing particular against them. They seem to have moved past the point where they were aka Not Always Defective. I'm sure you recall that period several years ago, no?

 

[jinjuku]

I asked for a person's name that was said to have been instrumental in the design of $100,000 speakers. I also asked just what was this prestigious AES award that was conferred upon DR. I've yet to receive a reply. Dissing DR? Like I said earlier he's not the sharpest knife but he's a good self-promoter.

I have heard three different GR Research speakers. They are damn nice for the money. While I am not likely to confuse him with the likes of Joe D' Appolito far as contributions, his designs are solid and can hold their own against other premium brands that I have heard.

Now, in an attempt to both silence me and any critique of DR or AV123 you ask me what designs I'm known for? I'm not. I could ask you the same thing, no? You don't need to have commercially designed speakers or crossovers in order to sing his praises do you? I base my comments on a reading of his posts both here and elsewhere on a variety of topics.

Didn't ask you to hold your tongue in any capacity. From what I gather with my experience with with you at AVSForum, it is quite impossible. The last thread being some silly argument about the legality of UL and/or other marks missing on the Emotiva ERC1.

As to NAD products, I've nothing particular against them. They seem to have moved past the point where they were aka Not Always Defective. I'm sure you recall that period several years ago, no?

I recall NAD, like almost EVERY other manufacturer has had some products that were less than stellar. NAD had a few hiccups with receivers some time ago. Nothing in recent memory however leads me to believe that they are not a top notch outfit. I mean if you want to pick nits look at the problematic Monster power amps (as designed by Richard Marsh). Every one has their down periods.

I have heard three different GR Research speakers. They are damn nice for the money. While I am not likely to confuse him with the likes of Joe D' Appolito far as contributions, his designs are solid and can hold their own against other premium brands that I have heard.

I googled for AV123 and the only truly significant thread is here at AH. I am not discounting the OP's issue/s. I know that people had problems with the initial run of the MFW-15. I am also aware that they were taken care of. Same thing for the Elemental Designs A3-500. They had to replace a lot of amps. Were there threads about it? sure. Did they take care of the back log, yes. Are they still alive and kicking, bringing great value to this segment, they sure are.

Emotiva had some serious pre-amp problems early on. They stumbled, they recovered.

A sign of a great company is not how they conduct everyday business. It's how they handle adversity. From what I have read the slighted AV123 customers are getting taken care of.

*** FYI I own ZERO AV123 product.

 

[just listening]

Jeez Louise. Don't keep us in suspense. What was the most prestigious audio engineering award? If so many companies use him to review speaker designs and request improvements that might speak more to those companies utter lack of competent in-house staff. As to respect being absolute, I beg to differ. You like him and think he's cutting edge with a wealth of scientific knowledge, great.

I have some emails out regarding the award which was announced in Stereophile if memory serves. But I'm on the road and don't have access to my magazine stash.

The idea that companies are "incompetent" for hiring outside people to review their product is so totally devoid of intelligent thought it makes me laugh. It's actually just the opposite, the smartest companies do hire consultants to review their work. It's called peer review, and it's considered standard proceedure in science. Otherwise, it's too easy to be blinded by your own effort. FYI, Joe D' Appolito is one of the giants in Audio by any measure. Spend some time at RMAF, Montreal, CES, etc. and truly talk to those in the industry like some of us do. I think you'll be surprised by what you learn.

 

[Chu Gai]

I have heard three different GR Research speakers. They are damn nice for the money. While I am not likely to confuse him with the likes of Joe D' Appolito far as contributions, his designs are solid and can hold their own against other premium brands that I have heard.

Yes, no confusing him with Joe.

Didn't ask you to hold your tongue in any capacity. From what I gather with my experience with with you at AVSForum, it is quite impossible. The last thread being some silly argument about the legality of UL and/or other marks missing on the Emotiva ERC1.

Well, when you come up with what have you designed, I looked at it as a snotty attempt at a putdown. I have no idea who you are at AVSForum. I pretty much keep this name wherever I go. My only other is Reverend Chu.

With respect to the ERC-1BTW, I made no mention of UL. I addressed its failings with respect to FCC certification. It's not that the marks are missing. It's that the unit has never had the required testing done for sale in the US. You think it's silly that's fine. I look at it as cheaping out and hoping that no one catches them and reports it to the FCC.

I recall NAD, like almost EVERY other manufacturer has had some products that were less than stellar. NAD had a few hiccups with receivers some time ago. Nothing in recent memory however leads me to believe that they are not a top notch outfit. I mean if you want to pick nits look at the problematic Monster power amps (as designed by Richard Marsh). Every one has their down periods.

Those Monster amps were some turds, weren't they?

I googled for AV123 and the only truly significant thread is here at AH. I am not discounting the OP's issue/s. I know that people had problems with the initial run of the MFW-15. I am also aware that they were taken care of. Same thing for the Elemental Designs A3-500. They had to replace a lot of amps. Were there threads about it? sure. Did they take care of the back log, yes. Are they still alive and kicking, bringing great value to this segment, they sure are.

1. The backlog still isn't taken care of.
2. The new amps are slightly larger than the old ones pretty much guaranteeing extraordinary difficulty in fitting them in.
3. Some amps need to have a particular connector removed and reinserted 180 degrees for the amp to work.
4. A couple of reports of amps that were DOA.
5. Still people around who've got ULW or U something subs that haven't had their warrantied amps replaced.
6. Issues of refunds still to be made.
7. Sundry veneer issues that'll get you something like a $100 credit. Would you be happy with that for furniture you bought for your home?
8. Too many stories of defective drivers, improperly applied gasketing, etc.
9. Products that were paid for but still not delivered.
10. Raffle issue.

I'm sure I've nowhere near exhausted things. Alive and kicking? Bringing value? To who? Not to those affected. When their forums reopen and we stop seeing signficant posts that deal with the above, then they'll be on the road to brining value. Until then, they've got a lot of fires to put out.

Emotiva had some serious pre-amp problems early on. They stumbled, they recovered.

That was a real clusterphuck.

A sign of a great company is not how they conduct everyday business. It's how they handle adversity. From what I have read the slighted AV123 customers are getting taken care of.

*** FYI I own ZERO AV123 product.

It's not?! I don't buy a product to see how you handle adversity. I buy it because I expect it to work as advertised and serviced promptly. If I'm due a refund, I expect it in a timely fashion. As to adversity, that itemized laundry list are some of the adverse things AV123 has wreaked upon the public. For months if not years.

 

[Chu Gai]

I have some emails out regarding the award which was announced in Stereophile if memory serves. But I'm on the road and don't have access to my magazine stash.

OK. I'll be curious to see what you come up with.

The idea that companies are "incompetent" for hiring outside people to review their product is so totally devoid of intelligent thought it makes me laugh. It's actually just the opposite, the smartest companies do hire consultants to review their work. It's called peer review, and it's considered standard proceedure in science. Otherwise, it's too easy to be blinded by your own effort. FYI, Joe D' Appolito is one of the giants in Audio by any measure. Spend some time at RMAF, Montreal, CES, etc. and truly talk to those in the industry like some of us do. I think you'll be surprised by what you learn.

They might do well to hire consultants that don't get so many things wrong when it comes to EE or physics then. Yes, I know of Mr. D'Appolito. I don't recall my disparaging him. As to what people in the industry say, that depends sometimes if they're talking to the public or amongst themselves. Off the record remarks tend to be a bit different.

 

[soloz2]

I don't know of anyone who still hasn't had their ULW/UFW amp replaced. They were all replaced/tested/shipped or just the amps shipped for the user to replace. I myself, received two updated amps several months ago.

 

[jinjuku]

1. The backlog still isn't taken care of.
2. The new amps are slightly larger than the old ones pretty much guaranteeing extraordinary difficulty in fitting them in.
3. Some amps need to have a particular connector removed and reinserted 180 degrees for the amp to work.
4. A couple of reports of amps that were DOA.
5. Still people around who've got ULW or U something subs that haven't had their warrantied amps replaced.
6. Issues of refunds still to be made.
7. Sundry veneer issues that'll get you something like a $100 credit. Would you be happy with that for furniture you bought for your home?
8. Too many stories of defective drivers, improperly applied gasketing, etc.
9. Products that were paid for but still not delivered.
10. Raffle issue.

I'm sure I've nowhere near exhausted things. Alive and kicking? Bringing value? To who? Not to those affected. When their forums reopen and we stop seeing signficant posts that deal with the above, then they'll be on the road to brining value. Until then, they've got a lot of fires to put out.

AFAIK a lot of this has actually been taken care of. I haven't seen any major grumbling for the past 3 months.

It's not?! I don't buy a product to see how you handle adversity. I buy it because I expect it to work as advertised and serviced promptly. If I'm due a refund, I expect it in a timely fashion. As to adversity, that itemized laundry list are some of the adverse things AV123 has wreaked upon the public. For months if not years.

You miss the point entirely and your POV is pollyannaish. Crap happens. I am not giving AV123 any sort of pass here. They messed up in a major way. I believe from what I have both seen and heard that they are taking major steps to right their wrongs and get their house back in order.

I still stand by my statement that peoples true stripes come out when faced with true adversity. You know what they are made of. I never enjoyed kicking people in the teeth while they are down. Especially when they are trying to get back up and turn it all around. Let me know if you can't read between the lines on this. I will spell it out for you.

About the FCC or other regulatory marks. I am sure Emotiva knows what they are doing. You could always call them if you are that concerned. The lack of FCC mark didn't stop Club Polk from ordering an ERC1 and doing a ship and demo amongst all the participants that threw in. Honestly, I am still not sure they are required to get that mark.