* Everything Important To Know About A/v Surround Receivers, But Were Afraid To Ask.*

[Jeepers]

Hi Ray,

Of course I do. I remember Sansui Quad receiver, and Quad turntables to play these special 4-channels vinyls. Or was it the receiver itself abled to decode these 4 separate tracks from these LPs? Or I do think that you needed those special turntables with special cartridges to be able to decode the grooves? And then the Quad receiver to extract and reproduce these 4 channels.
And yes, Sony had one too. Is Pioneer had one also?
This was from the 70's.

Yes Pioneer also had a few. I started to buy stereo gear in 1974 but I was too young and didn't have enough money however these were in Pioneer's 1974 catalog and were called Quadrophonic receivers like e.g. the QX-8000, QX-9900. I don't know the exact years these were produced but that's irrelevant anyway.. memories ...

 

[Lordoftherings]

New audio codecs vs older ones.

Here is the link regarding the comparison of the new digtial formats. Pretty good stuff. It really does not surprise me either.

IMO most of the stuff that we think we hear would probably not be heard in a proper double blind test.

http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueHD_DTS-MA_versus_Uncompressed_PCM

Thank you anamorphic96 for a great link.

I also know that there are several more like this one, where people can evaluate and make their own judgement.
For a simple tip, just Google: Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA vs DD & DTS soundtrack's comparison.

LOTR

 

[Lordoftherings]

Some useful links about various Room EQ systems.

Ok, at this point, I thought that I will disclose some useful links about various
Automatic Room Correction EQ from different manufacturers.

Note that this is not the complete list of the various EQ systems disponible on the market right now, but it includes some of the major ones.
And I encourage other members to provide additional links from other manufacturers about different EQ systems or additional content from these existing ones.
* I also added links of different aspect to help people with their setups.

1. Audyssey FAQ
-> http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index/html

2. Audyssey Setup Guide
-> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

3. Audyssey DSX (Dynamic Surround Expansion)
-> http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dsx.html

4. Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro Sound Equalizer Review
-> http://www.avforums.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=5

5. Audyssey MultEQ XT & SMS-1
-> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-915688.html

6. SVSound AS-EQ SubEQ
-> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/16738-astounding-new-eq1-subeq-goes-sale.html

7. Pioneer Advanced MCACC
-> http://www.pioneer.eu/files/eur/MCACC/index.html

8. Pioneer MCACC
-> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/staticfiles/index.html

9. Anthem & ARC1
-> http://statement.anthemav.com/html/Products/D2/downloads/ARC-1_PDS.pdf

10. Harman Kardon EzSet EQ system (video demo)
-> http://nl.truveo.com/New-Harman-Kardon-EzSet-EQ-system-in-operation-on/id/3153123803

11. TRINNOV
-> http://www.trinnov-audio.com/optimizer.php

12. Trinnov optimizer
-> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Trinnov+optimizer-a0158832025

13. Dolby Pro Logic IIz
-> http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic-IIz.html

14. Dolby Pro Logic IIz specs
-> http://www.dolby.com/professional/ce/home-theater/technologies/dolby-pro-logic-IIz-specs.html

15. Anthem Pre/Pros / ARC1 tweaking guide
-> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=678260

16. Analysis of different systems, including Audyssey SEQ
-> http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/1108mitr/

17. Audyssey DSX, part 2
-> http://www.avguide.com/blog/playback-learns-about-audyssey-dsx-part-2

18. Which brand has the best EQ room setup? MCACC, YPAO, Audyssey etc.
-> http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=766662

19. "Official" Pioneer MCACC thread
-> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1112470

20. TacT, Lyngdorf, Audyssey Pre/Pro, PARC?
-> http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1234012469&openfrom&13&4

21. Room EQ Wizard (REQW)
-> http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

22. Yamaha YPAO
-> http://www.yamaha.ca/av/technology/YPAO.jsp

23. Pioneer MCACC Demo (click on: "See how MCACC works")
-> http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/42/98/tech/AVAmplifierReceiverAF_MCAA.html

24. Pioneer MCACC Demo (video)
-> http://www.pioneereu/files/eur/MCACC_PQLS_phasecontrol/top.swf

* All right, that's it for now, have some fun and educational readings.

Bob

 

[Lordoftherings]

Links #23 & #24 fixes (from above post)

I just fix the #23 & #24 links from my previous post just above, as my time runned out for editing it (1 hour is the max.). Here they are now in their full glory.

23. -> http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/42/98/tech/AVAmplifierReceiver/AF_MCACC.html
* Click on "See how MCACC works" on the left bottom side (red letters), or click directly to link #24, here just below.

24. -> http://www.pioneer.eu/files/eur/MCACC_PQLS_phasecontrol/top.swf
* Just click on any white title in the picture, to see a moving demo of that section.

LOTR

 

[Lordoftherings]

Few more links to absorb more information.

This one was a thread that I started at AVS, but infortunately did not go where I wanted to go, but here it is.
It's called: * Best Automatic Room EQ * Audyssey vs ARC vs YPAO vs MCACC with ASR vs Trinnov vs Neptune *
1. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16167650

Here's another short one with some simple calculations.
2. http://www.driverheaven.net/effects-dsp/66801-room-eq-effect.html

And finally, also a short one about Room-EQ-Wizard (REW), awesome program.
3. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20590691-Room-EQ-Wizard-awesome-program

*** I will eventually provide a more extensive analysis from my own experience with Audyssey MultEQ XT. And I will also provide more informative links of deeper exploration on diverse Room EQ systems of great adjustability, and amazing precision. So stay tune, it only begins.
We will be travelling to Europe, where they are doing vast researchs into these fields: the CARROUSO project (Creating, Assessing and Rendering in Real time Of high quality aUdio-viSual envirOnments in mpeg-4 context). Just Google the word "CARROUSO", to find out more.
Also, we'll be looking at IOSONO, another project involving some very innovative techniques.
There is also another project in a Theater in Los Angeles, where they used 384 discrete speakers plus 8 (18") discrete subwoofers! You don't believe me?
Same for me at the beginning, wait till we'll get to that! That's a 384.8-channel discrete surround system!
Of course, I want to check with ARC1 (which our own member Warpdrv is getting some experience on this). ARC stands for Anthem Room Correction.
* I must admit that ARC is one of my favorite at this point.

Also, I want to check LYNGDORF, another Room EQ system of great versatility.
And I want to compare various type of digital filters, Graphic, Parametric, FIR (Finite Impulse Response filters), and IIR (Infinite Impulse Response filters).

And finally, I want to explore the negative impact on humans from the Ultrasounds (Decibels C) and Sound Waves from the Wind Turbines or also called Wind Mills.
Also check on Decibels A, for comparison purposes.

And, big thing here, I want to see the repercussions on Subsonic and Infrasonic Sounds, as well Subatomic Sounds related to the Geneographic project or the Illuminati project with the Large Hadron Collider (Black Hole exploration).

So, that's what's on the menu. That should be quite interesting, as we progress into the development of these fields, with hopefully the help of some scientists, mathematicians, computer program designers, sound engineers, acousticians and anyone with an opinion.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yep, a DD soundtrack is usually found on a DVD disc, or sometimes on a blu-ray disc, but this is getting very rare indeed. So sometimes, they used the DD soundtrack from the DVD version or even the DTS soundtrack, and other times they used the DD or dTS version of the HD DVD or Blu-Ray version, comparing with the Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA soundtrack from the HD DVD or Blu-Ray disc.

AcuDefTechGuy, you're a smart guy, get your fingers on that keyboard, and start your search.

Bobby

I don't think it's fair comparing a DVD disc with a BLU-RAY disc.

I think it is fair comparing the DD track vs the TrueHD trak on the SAME BLU-RAY disc (same original source). When this is done, I find that you usually cannot tell the difference.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Use the Google tool.

I don't think it's fair comparing a DVD disc with a BLU-RAY disc.

I think it is fair comparing the DD track vs the TrueHD trak on the SAME BLU-RAY disc (same original source). When this is done, I find that you usually cannot tell the difference.

Who said anything is fair in life?

And the comparisons made by the reviewers or audio writers, were often done using the same blu-ray disc or HD DVD disc with soundtracks from the high resolution audio codec formats and the normal DD or DTS audio soundtracks.
Don't take my word for it, just read them (the reviews and the audio comparisons) by Google it.

You might not find a difference, but you are more part of the exception than the rule.

Bob

 

[Lordoftherings]

Few more informative and educational links...

OK, I got few more links that you might find very interesting regarding our topic.

Here's one from a technical article titled: "Using the Auto Set-up and EQ Features in an SSP or Receiver". These are all from "Secrets of Home Theater and High fidelity".

* http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/168-using-the-auto-set-up-and-eq-features-in-an-ssp-or-receiver.html

>>> And here's a dozen more nonetheless interesting and educational too.

1. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/feature-article-two-subs-10-2006-part-1.html

2. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/feature-article-auto-eq-5-2006-part-1.html

3. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/feature-article-thx-1-2006-part-1.html

4. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/feature-article-slope-troubles-6-2005.html

5. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-acoustic-treatment-methods-and-materials-12-2004-part-1.html

6. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/feature-secrets-lab-room-treatment-9-2004-part-1.html

7. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/feature-007-theater-12-2003.html

8. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/feature-ssp-functionality-11-2003.html

9. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_4/feature-article-time-alignment-12-2002.html

10. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html

11. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/feature-article-curves-6-2002.html

12. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html

Happy reading once more.

Bob

 

[KeepBrideHappy]

New receiver or Marriage counseling?

Hi,
Can anybody recommend a good home theater receiver that is Wife friendly? Ie, push buttons that say "TV" or "DVD" and have it work.

Basically I'm looking for something like the Denon AVR-4306 except with HDMI 1.3, and a simpler remote or front panel. I need a multizone system, ethernet hook up and Ipod/Usb connections, and something Blu Ray friendly but I'll sacrifice whatever I have to to get something simple.
I don't know much about home theater so other suggestions are welcome also.
Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.
Thanks
Eric

 

[Lordoftherings]

Of course, I know exactly the one(s).

Hi Eric, and a big Welcome to Audioholics Forums.

That's fine. We don't mind a small detour once in a while.

About a Marantz SR8002. Or the SR7002. (HDMI 1.3)

These are very Wife friendly (sensual to their eyes), and they do all you ask for.
Any budget in mind? Because the Denon AVR-4306ci is last year model.

So, about the Marantz SR8001 for only $700. (HDMI 1.2)
Or the Marantz SR7001 for only $500. (HDMI 1.2)
Or the Marantz SR6001 for only $350. (HDMI 1.2)

All at 6th avenue. Make them that offer, in their Price Alert box, and they will accept it.

And if you have a better budget;

About the Arcam AVR600.
Here: http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/arcam_avr600_av_receiver/

Or about the Denon AVR-5308ci.
Or the Denon AVR-4308ci.
Or the Denon AVR-3808ci.

Or the Harman Kardon AVR 7550HD.

Or the Integra DTR-9.9.

* Or the Marantz SR6003.
Info here: http://us.marantz.com/Products/2515.asp#
For price here: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6003/Marantz/SR6003-Dolby-TrueHD-/-dts-HD-Master-Audio-AV-Receiver/1.html
-> Just scroll down a bit.

Or the Onkyo TX-NR906.

Or the Pioneer Elite SC-09.
Or the Pioneer Elite SC-07.
Or the Pioneer Elite SC-05.
Or the Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH.

Or the Yamaha RX-Z11.
Or the Yamaha RX-Z7.
Or the Yamaha RX-V3900.

--> That should give you enough choices to go through, and learn their multiple features and looks to (for the wife).

* But to make your choice easier, concentrate on the newer Marantz models.
In particular the SR6003, for only $699.99, at accessories 4 less.
And just go higher from there.
And some people really dig the looks of the Pioneer Elite SC-07 and SC-05.
Only $899 and $699 respectively (at 6th avenue, with their Price Alert method).

Bob

Note: You can always get a Logitech Harmony remote control, which are always the best choice anyway. They are very reasonably price, very user friendly (wife included), and they also have a screen, plus custom features that you will love.
Easy to operate, just simply press one button, and everything sets up automatically.
Personally I use the Harmony 550, and it's a very cute remote that women dig, for only $49 (on sale at most places).

 

[agarwalro]

Hi,
Can anybody recommend a good home theater receiver that is Wife friendly? Ie, push buttons that say "TV" or "DVD" and have it work.

Basically I'm looking for something like the Denon AVR-4306 except with HDMI 1.3, and a simpler remote or front panel. I need a multizone system, ethernet hook up and Ipod/Usb connections, and something Blu Ray friendly but I'll sacrifice whatever I have to to get something simple.
I don't know much about home theater so other suggestions are welcome also.
Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.
Thanks
Eric

All you need is a receiver that lets you rename the inputs and get a universal remote that sets up macros under custom names.

For the former, most late generation receivers from the major brands let you do this. For the remote look into, Home Theater Masters and Logitech Harmony.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Good links above.

^ The above post contains great links for the best remote controls.

+1 for our friend above.

 

[KeepBrideHappy]

Wow....great color. Much appreciated. Definitely need something "sensual" to my wife's eyes, since I am NOT!
May I ask (and hopefully this is more on topic for you guys) Should I care about HDMI 1.2 or 1.3 vs 1.1? I don't have a video game console, but want to get a blu ray player. Or is there a thread elsewhere on here I can't seem to find?
Thanks again. Great info on here.
Eric

 

[Fenix]

Eric,

FYI HDMI 1.3b has control features in it. Therefore if your TV, AVR, and Blu-ray are all HDMI 1.3b, then your wife shouldn't have to really hit any buttons. Once you enable the control feature on all 3 devices they will work together wonderfully. All of mine are and I rarely have to pick up the AVR remote.

What will happen is this:

When you turn on your TV, it will automatically turn on the AVR as well and the input will automatically go to your TV. When you turn on your Blu-ray and put a movie in the AVR and TV will both automatically switch inputs (TV to HDMI, and AVR to the Blu-ray) and be ready to play. When you are done watching and want to turn everything off, just turn off the TV and everything else shuts off automatically. If you want to just go back to the TV for a moment, change the channel on the TV and the AVR will switch it's input while your Blu-ray keeps playing. You can even control the volume of the AVR through your TV and Blu-ray remotes (buy just pressing the normal volume keys).

I hope this helps.

Good luck

 

[Lordoftherings]

No problemo.

Wow....great color. Much appreciated. Definitely need something "sensual" to my wife's eyes, since I am NOT!
May I ask (and hopefully this is more on topic for you guys) Should I care about HDMI 1.2 or 1.3 vs 1.1? I don't have a video game console, but want to get a blu ray player. Or is there a thread elsewhere on here I can't seem to find?
Thanks again. Great info on here.
Eric

LOL. Good one Eric. You have to compensate somewhere for your so-so sensuality.

As for your second request, NO, it is not essential to care about HDMI version 1.3, or 1.2 or even 1.1, as any of these will still permit you to benefit from the new high resolution audio codecs.
The lower HDMI versions still accept Multichannel digital LPCM though their lower version HDMI inputs, from a blu-ray player that internally decodes these newer audio codecs (most do nowadays); Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. So you still benefit of their full high resolution glory, even with HDMI version 1.2 or 1.1.
The only small difference (and it's small one and an unimportant too), is that the front display of one of these ditto receivers will display "Mutichannel LPCM", instead of the new logos of their audio counterpart.
But the sound is what really counts, and here you don't loose a thing.

So, here you have it right here, without the need to go somewhere else.

So, if for example, you go with a Marantz SR6001 (only $350, that's 71% off ), you are still in business in the high resolution audio game.

Bob

Note: By the way, when you look at the title of this thread, it does encompass a vast number of questions about A/V Receivers. It, in fact, includes all questions regarding A/V Surround Receivers.
I just thought that Automatic Room EQ Calibration System (AREQCS) would be a subject that the majority of people ll'be most interested in.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Who said anything is fair in life?

And the comparisons made by the reviewers or audio writers, were often done using the same blu-ray disc or HD DVD disc with soundtracks from the high resolution audio codec formats and the normal DD or DTS audio soundtracks.
Don't take my word for it, just read them (the reviews and the audio comparisons) by Google it.

You might not find a difference, but you are more part of the exception than the rule.

Bob

Well, I'm sure a lot of these reviewers also use words like "chocolatey", "sweet', and "mouth watering" to describe the sound too.

What I'm talking about is actual double-blinded studies, not some reviews by so-called experts and user-reviews.

I don't have the link to the double-blinded study I was talking about. The link is listed somewhere on Audioholics too. But this study was actually double-blinded, and they used high-dollar equipments like the Revel Salon speaker system. They concluded that people could NOT hear the difference between the DD/DTS vs TrueHD/DTS-HD on the same disc.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Here's the deal.

Well, I'm sure a lot of these reviewers also use words like "chocolatey", "sweet', and "mouth watering" to describe the sound too.

What I'm talking about is actual double-blinded studies, not some reviews by so-called experts and user-reviews.

I don't have the link to the double-blinded study I was talking about. The link is listed somewhere on Audioholics too. But this study was actually double-blinded, and they used high-dollar equipments like the Revel Salon speaker system. They concluded that people could NOT hear the difference between the DD/DTS vs TrueHD/DTS-HD on the same disc.

Oh AcuDefTechGuy, I was so waiting for your response.

OK, I'll make a deal with you; provide me with a link about that double-blinded test with these Revel Salon speakers, and I'll give you few links about my ditto comparisons (no sweat, I'll do the searching).
Are you in?

And if I'm not happy with your link, I'll let you know. And if you're not happy with my links, you let me know.

Bob

 

[Lordoftherings]

Check this out: the new Krell Evolution 707 preamp/processor.

* About a $30,000 preamp/processor. <<Id unleashed.>>
<< Id Unleashed >>

Here: http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ultimate-gear/id_unleashed/


* And this new A/V Receiver by Arcam, the AVR600 ($4,995).

Here: http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/arcam_avr600_av_receiver/


* Finally, a nice simple system with Marantz AV8003 & MM8003 mated with B&W speakers.

Here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16555823&postcount=7679

Any thoughts?

Bob

 

[PENG]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16555823&postcount=7679[/url]

Any thoughts?

Bob

I thought the CM9 are a little weak for the Marantz setup. Those Marantz deserve at least a pair of 803S even 803D.

 

[lsiberian]

Thank you anamorphic96 for a great link.

I also know that there are several more like this one, where people can evaluate and make their own judgement.
For a simple tip, just Google: Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA vs DD & DTS soundtrack's comparison.

LOTR

This isn't a valid test IMO. Unless you do a double blind test I dont' consider it valid and the results should be determined individually. I believe one person influenced their beliefs. FR was the same? How can there be a difference if the FR is exactly the same? It's clearly psychological.