* Everything Important To Know About A/v Surround Receivers, But Were Afraid To Ask.*

[Lordoftherings]

Welcome to all members and visitors to this new thread, which will try to shine some light into all the A/V Surround Receivers made in the last 12 years.

Here, we will discuss the build quality and the implementation of the internal parts that constitute an A/V Surround Receiver.
We will check the "A" (Audio) side of the equation from the A/V Receiver.
And also the "V" (Video), and "T" (Tuner) aspects of the A/V Receiver (that is still what defines a Receiver after all).
Plus, we will explore the new Ethernet features, with the new Audio listening formats and Video watching formats. So many of them now... And what people think of them in general. Streaming everything from your computer, laptop, the internet, web and what you have...

Starting from 1996-97 with the first appearance of Dolby Digital into an A/V Receiver, to this present day with Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio, as well all the new Automatic Room Correction EQs from the various manufacturers, including Audyssey, TRINNOV, MCACC, YPAO, SARS and others.

And also the latest incarnations of Audyssey (Audyssey MultEQ PRO, Audyssey Dynamic EQ & Dynamic Volume and Audyssey DSX: Dynamic Surround Expansion). And of course, Dolby Digital Pro Logic IIz. And same with the latest incarnations of MCACC and YPAO.

As this thread will be going forward, we will be initiated to new frontiers on the development of perfectioned Automatic Room Correction EQ.

Audyssey DSX is already here, and we will analyse and comment on it's usefulness and special features. The first such receiver to implement Audyssey DSX, is the Denon AVR-4310ci. And the upcoming (september 2009) Denon AVR-4810ci with 9 channels of amplification.

Also, with the new arrival of Sherwood Newcastle R-972 A/V Surround Receiver (any day now, finally!), with TRINNOV Automatic Room Correction EQ.

And, let's not forget the "V" side of the equation from the A/V Receiver, the Video processor, which in the last 12 years has progressed considerably, and is now (like it or not) a big part and true reality in our lifes.

My wish, is to attract as many views as possible with experience people, professional people and all Audiophiles and Audioholics that share this hobby of ours.

So, anyone is greatly welcome to share his or her views, in the goal to better understanding and appreciation of what has been done from the last 12 years, in improving our Surround Sound experience.
Don't hesitate to post your comments and observations.

I feel that with the newer technologies arriving at the speed of light, this thread should be quite educational and exciting.

Best regards to all,

Bob

Note: This is only a warm-up start.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I still don't get what the big deal is about Room Correction EQs like Audyssey, ARC1, etc.

I've tried room correction EQ enough times with my Denon AVR-5308CI (& HK receiver in the past) to conclude for myself that Room EQ and Dynamic EQs make absolutely no difference in my room.

In my experience, the best sound is from unaltered sound (bypassing Tones and EQs).

You are not going to change my mind.

Don't even try.

In conclusion, I think room correction EQ and tone controls are a bunch of gimmicks, and they suck.

In other words, get rid of all these gimmicks (EQs, Room Correction, DSPs, Tones, WiFi, Etc.) and just get me a pure "class-A" pre-pro or 200 wpc receiver with 10 HDMI inputs, 3 outputs, and none of that silly composite and S-video crap.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

 

[PENG]

You have a perfect room! I suppose your gear are too heavy to move to another room just to find out how right/wrong you are.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You have a perfect room! I suppose your gear are too heavy to move to another room just to find out how right/wrong you are.

That's fine, but he will not change his mind

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
You are not going to change my mind.
Don't even try.
..

Is this a trick response? Or just toying with us

 

[mtrycrafts]

Note: This is only a warm-up start.

You are a big tease Not fair.

I really miss the amp inputs on the newer receivers, unless it is perhaps in the mega $$$ range?

Setup and features are getting more complicated, nothing standardized from maker to maker. Even I have had problems and not everything is in the manuals I really feel for the average joe or sue out there

 

[Lordoftherings]

I'm having a ball of fun, but that was not my intention!

LOL. Wow! AcuDefTechGuy, I did not realise that you were serious from your other posts on other threads. Seems that I'm just starting to really know you.

You make me laugh big time. Like Peng is saying, you must have a perfect room, good for you man.
If...

And besides, what are you doing with a Denon AVR-5308ci in the first place??? You must be high on something!
Yeah! The 5308 is full of useless features for your own use, that doesn't make any sense at all! It's like you are degrading it big time, according to your statement!!!
Are you truly sure of what you're saying?
You must be in a very very small minority without any common sense whatsoever.
You need to get desintoxicated in a hurry. Or you'll miss the next boat to audio nirvana.

What do you think they used in the studio when they record Black Sabbath or Pantera? Metallica or Linkin Park? Pure, unaltered, right!

If you got nothing intelligent to say, why don't you just stay home, lock all the doors and windows, and turn it up till you don't exist anymore?
You'll see if you can go without a good dose of EQ.

Anyway, I bet you must be a good guy to be around and get drunk with.

I certainly won't try to EQ you. You are EQ enough as it is.

And besides, you probably need more treatments.
Not just your room.

OK, over with the insignificance of your comments, let's get it on to serious things now.
I just hope that the next member to post in this thread has an open perspective on life!

Gotta go now, I think I'm gonna puke.

LOTR

 

[davidtwotrees]

I miss my little Audio Refinement PrePro. 5.1, no gimmicks, simple as pie. I bought a Yam663 to see what all the fuss was about on the new sound codecs/new receiver technology..........and cha' know what? Cheez Whiz. I thought it was a load of hooie and sold it down the river in two weeks-if I was looking to launch the space shuttle I might have kept it around............. I agree 100% with acudeftech. I want simple, beefy gear. HDMI is fine, but I can do without that, too. I have an old Lexicon PrePro that is just pure simplicity to operate, I would like to see that in the brains of my rig.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Flexibility and innovation is good.

Maybe I should have start a thread about prehistoric receivers!

You guys can have all your wishes with a separate amp (preferably mono or for the avant-garde, stereo), then, of course, a turntable, and a separate pre-amp.
And who needs Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA anyway?

So far, I know that you guys are smart people, but you surely don't show it.

Is there anyone out there yet that is happy with the new high resolution audio codecs, high resolution video, and state-of-the-art room EQ?

All right, the A/V receivers of tomorrow will quickly inherit the latest from the small companies, like Anthem with ARC1, TRINNOV and Audyssey MultEQ PRO, and much more... So, what do you guys suggest? Go back to our cages and play the lion or the monkey?...

Me, I just want some good basic sound, with a good amp section and a pre-amp section too, plus a good tuner and the new audio codecs too.
And a state-of-the-art Room EQ also.

I don't really care about the video processor, I just want Straight Pure HDMI Pass Through. And I don't need a single S-Video or Composite Video, not a single one. I just want many HDMI inputs and outputs, plus few Components in and out.
I want also more digital Coaxial In and Out, plus few digital Optical inputs.

Ethernet, I don't give a square cat.

Now, it sounds like that we're buiding the perfect receiver. Why not?
I can see where that will eventually bring us all...
Well, the solution is quite simple, let's build one for us here, for about $2,000
And others can build one for half of that, and others can build their own for $500
And for the very budget people, one for $200, but I don't want to go there.
At the other end, we can build one for $3,000, but let's stop at this junction, because if you want to spend more, the separates are specially made for us.
So, realistically speaking, a receiver from $500 to $3,000 period, no more no less. Less is for the deprived, the diffused, the generation Z, the boomboys...

So, what you say now? Is this sounds more exiting or what?

I'm ready for your comments. And don't come rushing all together at once.
Grab a number and wait your turn, like everybody else "online".

LOTR

 

[Fenix]

Though, I am no expert, I will post my opinion on what I have found so far (in my 3 weeks of surround ecstasy). This is my first system, yet I love it. Down the road after many years I'm sure I will upgrade and enjoy the new one that much more, but for now what I have I love.

I have not used YPAO yet, as my space is entirely too small (my rear speakers are practically above my head), however just out of the box and no tweaks it sounds awesome. As soon as I purchase a new home with a bigger room for my system I will then give YPAO a shot and see how it works (after I optimally position my speakers to Dolby standards of course).

HDMI, what can I say this is a great connection. Sure it has it's flaws (I haven't noticed it yet, though I have read around about it) but it delivers excellent picture quality from my Blu-ray and excellent sound as well. I don't even want to buy anything aside from Blu-rays because of the lossless audio that sounds soooooooo goooooood. As the specs are updated on HDMI it only gets better. Forget remotes with macro's. With the 1.3b HDMI spec your TV can control just about everything. When I turn on my TV it automatically turns on the AVR and changes it to the correct input for the TV. I can control the AVR volume through my TV remote as if I were turning up my TV's audio. I hit mute, the AVR mute's. If I tell the TV to switch to TV speakers, then the receiver no longer processes the sound. When I turn on my Blu-ray it will automatically switch to the HDMI input on the TV and switch the AVR input the the Blu-ray. When I turn the TV off everything else shuts off automatically.

DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD are both excellent. They sound so crisp, clear, and smooth. The bass hits wonderfully and you just get enveloped in the movie.

I really like the analog video processing that takes the analog video inputs, then transmits them back over HDMI cable to your TV. It cuts down on so much un-necessary clutter.

Video processing...I'm not so sure about. HDMI passthrough would be good enough for me as I believe that my TVs video processor is better than my receiver's.

That's all I have to say about the features that I have been enjoying. I hope this is what you were looking for (or did you want more technical talk?)

 

[Lordoftherings]

Great response Fenix.

Thanks Fenix, this is exactly the type of response that sounds honest and down to earth. Thanks for sharing your views with the rest of us, as we can totally related to it.
You are the first person that speak from the heart so far in this thread, and that, deserves full accolades. Your example should serve as a good base for others to follow.
I do agree with you at 99.9%, just to leave that small fraction as a fair margin open to the rules of trial and errors.

And if I will be you, I will give a try to your YPAO from your Yammy receiver, even in your small room. After all, you have nothing to loose, and can always defeat it if not satisfied with the results.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts, and do post anytime that you find something new that you think deserves mentioning from this great new high resolution audio and video that we all benefit now from the old days anyway. Because after all, the newer recordings are much better executed than before, and the techniques to transmit them in our own rooms have also improved considerably. So the entire chain, from the original source (the musicians or the movie soundtrack) of the recordings to the microphones and to the digital tape or digital data recorders, and the transfer to the new high resolution discs playing from our high resolution audio and video playback devices, and then decoded by our very own receivers with the latest high resolution video and audio chips decoders, including the newest and better automatic room correction equalizers, are the direct result of this very own better experience that we can benefit from this non stop technology developed by the best audio and video engineers in the business.
And it can only get better from this point up.
So, the people that are complaining or distracting us from these true facts are or rather ignorants or just simply fooling themselves.
You know Fenix, it's not everyone that can appreciate what they have in life.
There are some people that are always not happy and like to always complained about what they believe from the past where they are still stuck on these old values that don't fit anymore with the latest technics of sudio recordings and transfers to new media and higher resolution formats.
Let not argue with them, but let us teach them the new world we live in with the better pictures and sounds.

Regards,

Bobby

P.S. Sorry for my spelling and grammatical faults. After all I'm just a Frenchman.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What Can I Say?

I'm a Class-A Purist Receiver Guy!

I would just love to own a million dollar car, drive it around, and tell everyone that it drives like a Toyota.

Like Sheryl Crow says, "IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY"!

That's all it matters.

If you think ARC1 is the best there is, that's okay.

If you think Audessey is 2nd best that's okay too.

And if you think your $8K pre-pro is the best, it's okay. I'll SHOW YOU when I get my $10K pre-pro.

Hey, what about that $30K Mark Levinson Pre-Pro? I think it uses the Harman Kardon/Lexicon Room Correction - probably similar to the one I used on my Harman Kardon receiver in the past.

Is my room perfect?

Absolutely!

No, really, it is.

I even added 4 huge acoustic panels, and I couldn't even tell the difference.

Therefore, I conclude that it is perfect.

I rest my case, and don't anybody INCONCEIVABLY INTERDICT either!

And yes, you can't change my mind.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks Fenix, this is exactly the type of response that sounds honest and down to earth. Thanks for sharing your views with the rest of us, as we can totally related to it. You are the first person that speak from the heart so far in this thread, and that, deserves full accolades.

Oh, now I'm offended.

And if I were you, I would give your YPAO a try, even in your small room.
After all, you have nothing to loose...

Oooh, I don't know. What if he tries the YPAO and finds that it sounds terrible? Would someone say that he doesn't have a "worthy" room correction tool?

Man, I feel a little devilish lately.

 

[PENG]

I'm a Class-A Purist Receiver Guy!


Is my room perfect?

Absolutely!

No, really, it is.

I even added 4 huge acoustic panels, and I couldn't even tell the difference.

Therefore, I conclude that it is perfect.

I rest my case, and don't anybody INCONCEIVABLY INTERDICT either!

And yes, you can't change my mind.

I thought I told you before, get some 802D and try everything again. If nothing change, then get something better. Your speakers are good but with your near high end electronics they may now be your bottle neck. Seriously your room may be close to perfect but it is also highly possible that you cannot hear difference (improvements) because you are limited by the resolution of your speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Bobby

P.S. Sorry for my spelling and grammatical faults. After all I'm just a Frenchman.

Use the Google spell check. At least something will be corrected
Or, up there it can only do French corrections.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Tip for me & question for you.

Use the Google spell check. At least something will be corrected
Or, up there it can only do French corrections.

Thanks for the tip, I never thought of that, why should I, I didn't even know that such a thing existed.
Anyway, from no correction made into my post, by the other members, I'll have to deduct that "they were"* no mispelling or grammatical faults.

So, you guys, are my "Google" spell check.

* "they were" or "there was"? Or both are good?

Bob

 

[Fenix]

"there were" would be most correct. Since you have multiple posts "was" would not work as it is more of a singular word whereas "were" is plural.

I hated English in school, yet I seem to do so well with spelling, words, and sentences....

 

[Lordoftherings]

TY Fenix.

Thanks Fenix, "there were", so it was a mix of both.

I wish people would always correct me for my mispelling, so that I can get better on my English language, just as on my Audio evolution.

Hey Fenix, I would also like to ask you if the title of my thread is also without any faults?, in particular: ...but "were" afraid to ak. Is "were" OK, or should it be "we're"? Or both are good?

Thanks

Bob (French = Robert)

Note: On that ditto post, my reference was for the one post in particular that I had on mind, so, in that case, it will be "there was".
And like you said, if it was meant to refer to any or all of my posts, then "there were" is the proper wording.

 

[Lordoftherings]

TY for your kind words.

^ Hey, now that's very sweet of you.
And same to you.

 

[Fenix]

That's a toss up between "were afraid" and "are afraid" as you can be refering to everything in the past or in the present.

Anyways...we need some more people to chime in on this, so we don't go too off-topic.