Handcuffed black man shot in the back by BART officer, sparks riots.

[jamie2112]

So why'd you get pulled over?

I must say that it sounds like most of your "issues" with the police are your own doing.

Even if he was speeding he and his wife didn't deserve what happened to them.I agree totally with hi fi honey, I have not been to jail for more than 12 hours but I have been treated and seen horrible treatment of innocent people many many times.Granted there are some police who are good guys but from what I have seen most of them are not PERIOD.

 

[Matt34]

I can tell you one thing from a few years experience in law enforcement, it's a very stressful job and cops deal with the worst of society on a daily basis. I think it really wears on you after awhile and some deal with it by just turning of their emotions and compassion for sanity's sake. It's a very thankless job but there are still a great number of good LEO out there.

I'm not saying what happened to Hi-Fi was right and I don't think, from what I've seen, that the BART officer was anywhere close to right in his actions.

 

[jinjuku]

I love it when people complain about being pulled over for speeding and the officer not being friendly.

Actually, getting pulled over for nothing and then hassled has been my experience.

 

[nick1000000]

Actually, getting pulled over for nothing and then hassled has been my experience.

I find it hard to believe the cop pulled you over to just hassle you.

 

[jinjuku]

I find it hard to believe the cop pulled you over to just hassle you.

Sure as heck did. Cops do what is called profiling. Try driving a vintage Nova. Cops profile all the time.

 

[highfihoney]

So why'd you get pulled over?

I must say that it sounds like most of your "issues" with the police are your own doing.

Does it really matter why i got pulled over ?

It was a traffic stop & i was released with a ticket,the town was a safer place that night, due to the valiant efforts of the two brave policemen who risked their lives,they put to end a wanton crime spree of moving violations from a school teacher,an old woman & a worn out half cripple biker

Would you even be asking that question or making the statement about how its "my own doing" if it was your wife being yanked around,yelled at,called stupid several times, then handcuffed & tossed in a police car because her feet got cold? I think not,as a matter of fact i can pretty confidently say that i know you wouldnt,you'd be hopping mad. & you'd have every right to be mad & stay mad.

My wife means more to me than anything on this planet & the way they treated her is something i cant forgive or forget as long as i live,i refuse too.

Its hard to grasp when its happening to the other guy,there must be something he's done wrong that were not seeing,he had to have done something wrong to be treated like that,right ? Thats what im seeing in this thread,everything from he violated curfew to his past police record,everybody is looking for a reason to justify the police actions.

Is it so hard to believe that police treat people with violence for no other reason than its how they do business on a daily basis ?

Just because you (meaning everybody) aint living it dont mean its not happening on a daily basis to countless other people in our country,im one of the other people its happened to,unfortunately.

 

[highfihoney]

I can tell you one thing from a few years experience in law enforcement, it's a very stressful job and cops deal with the worst of society on a daily basis. I think it really wears on you after awhile and some deal with it by just turning of their emotions and compassion for sanity's sake. It's a very thankless job but there are still a great number of good LEO out there.

I'm not saying what happened to Hi-Fi was right and I don't think, from what I've seen, that the BART officer was anywhere close to right in his actions.

Hi Matt,long time no speak,since im talking to you i gather all went well on your last tour of duty ?

I agree on the thankless job,i also agree on the reasons why cops flip out,my very good friend is part of the narcotics task force in my town,its kinda ironic,he busts grow houses & i grow weed for my wife ,she's allready been approved for medical use so no worries there anymore.

Anyhow when i talk to my cop friend he is a mess on & off duty,he's so stressed out from dealing with every a-hole on earth that lies to him with their every breath that he turns to alcohol,he tells me most cops who've been on the force long term have major family problems as well as many having serious trouble with alcohol.

He also admits to me that power corrupts many of them,that the longer they are on the force the easier it is for them to believe that they are above reproach in their actions,while he's never came right out & told me he's bashed people he has made mention about specific instances where he came very close to giving somebody a beat down because he was stressed out or had a bad day at home & let the stress of life overlap into his work.

 

[jamie2112]

That is really not suprising considering what most police officers go thru....I still have bad feelings for the po po and will most likely always feel that way...Watching cops beat down deadheads in meadowlands parking lot in the late 80's for being different from them really turned me off. Cops are not a judge and jury although most or maybe some of them act like one most of the time....

 

[highfihoney]

Sure as heck did. Cops do what is called profiling. Try driving a vintage Nova. Cops profile all the time.

I believe you 100%.

People base their opinions on what they see & live in their own lives,if a persons only contact with police is from being plopped on the sofa watching "cops" or "speeders" those people would find it hard to believe,those tv shows sure do make police look like a noble bunch.

I hate those shows

 

[MidnightSensi]

I've been hassle by cops more times than I have been helped. And the "bro" thing most of them do is getting really old. We need cops, but, because of that we will need to deal with some of these problems. The fact is that there are some good cops, but the majority are got beat up as a kid and grew into some kind of a tough guy complex, we all know the d-bags that became cops from our high schools. It's just the people who take that sort of a job. Again, there are certainly exceptions.

I agree with nick about the rioting, the LA riots made no sense to me, they destroyed their own neighborhood and stole from their own...where is the justice in that?

 

[MidnightSensi]

Police can be their friends, but the trouble is you really don't know and a lot of times they are playing your buddy to gain evidence on you, so you have to stay quiet and think everything through. In sketchy situations the best thing to do is to say "I will cooperate, but I would like to have a lawyer present for any questioning." The false information thing is true man, don't believe them they'll play your *** to be a snitch.

Also like you say dogs are often trained to false alert.


The biggest problem in America, off topic of the man shot but on topic with police, is the policy that drug use is a criminal issue rather than medical one. Arresting people for marijuana is absolutely retarded, and anyone who thinks it makes sense is also retarded.... but even terrible drugs like crack and heroin for personal use should be decriminalized. Cops should be the biggest proponents of this, but many of them aren't (see: high school people you know who became cops).

1 Police are not their friends.
2 Dont resist arrest.
3 Do not ever talk to a cop willingly.
4 Police are allowed to give false information (lie) to you when questioning you, in order to extract information from you,or to get you to incriminate yourself.
5 Everything a cop says to you,no matter how harmless it seems is designed to gain information against you,even when recieving a speeding ticket,for instance (do you know why i pulled you over??,or, do you know how fast you were going?? )
6 Offer no resistance but remain silent at all times,no matter the issue.
7 Do not ever agree to any personal searches.
8 Do not agree to any searches of their vehicles.If a cop insists on a search & calls in a drug dog watch the cop at all times if possible to watch for signs of a forced alert stemming from the cops actions or commands,take mental notes of every word or hand motion of the cop running the dog.
9 Do not answer the cops loaded questions when being pulled over.
10 Do not answer the door for the police.
11 If the door is open & the police ask to come in say no,then close the door.
12 Do not step outside for the police to be questioned,instead ask if they have a warrant,if not then close the door.
13 If they break down on the road they are to leave the vehicle & call a cab.
14 If they are promised by the police that they will not go to jail if they give up the information the police want not to cooporate,if the police can take you to jail 9 times out of 10 they will,or after you talk they will allow you to remain free for a few days & leave the issue Pending Further Investigation,then a few days later the cops come back & get them.

15 The most important thing of all ive taught them & what all cops are trained to rely very heavily on,dont be in a rush to tell your side of the story,police count on the persons natural response of wanting to tell their side of the story,everybody wants their side of the story to be heard & cops know it too,this leads to many arrests that would never of happened if they'd of just shut up & not spoken to the police at all,there is nothing anybody can say to a cop that will keep them from going to jail,if a cop can take your a$$ your on your way to jail,unless the jail is full.

This information was given to me from a life long friend who's a member of the Detroit Police dept who also reccomends to friends that they take this stance with police at all times,these are our rights as US Citizens,ask any lawyer & he will tell you to do the same.

Your taking what i said way out of contex,at no time did i say ive told my children to resist the police,i have told them to know their rights when dealing with the police,ive taught them to understand that the way police talk to people is by design an attempt to get them to incriminate themselves,by remaining silent,refusing voluntary searches of their person & vehicles & limiting any contact with the police they are limiting their chances of arrest,jail time & excessive fines.

How is that putting anybody in danger.

 

[highfihoney]

I guess the way I look at it is... sure... he could've got arrested... would've been let out eventually... and would've gone right back to what he was doing.

I'm sure someone loved him and they're in great despair right now, but at the same time, I just don't feel any sympathy for him. I don't. I think of the fear, the chaos, and harm he has caused in his life and I just don't feel bad for what happened.

I feel terrible for the debris he's left behind however. While his family hopefully never condoned the life of crime he chose, he's still a son to someone and that grief must be terrible. I feel sorry for the office as well because his life is forever changed as well.

But you raised a very good point about all this... espcially about the rioting. It does absolutely nothing but further cement long entrenched stereotypes and prejudice. There's just a lot of people watching that take place... the meaningless destruction and violence... just sit there and think to themselves... "black people... figures." That's the real harm, the real tragedy. There's a real danger when a small group propogates a lasting picture that's so far from the reality, yet stays burned in your head.

Im gonna go on record here as saying your post is one of the worst ive seen on any forum anywhere,if not the absolute worst,and just so the mods know i am not angry but i am in a state of disbelief.

You dont feel bad for the man who was murdered,yet you feel sorry for the cop who murdered him

Then you go on to worry about the riots & the entrenching of stereotypes caused by the riots,un-friggen-believeable.

The only stereotype that should be had from this incident is of the police being jack booted nazi thugs who bully,threaten, beat,abuse & murder the public they vowed to protect,with allmost no chance of repercussion from a blind public.

Amazing.

 

[itschris]

I don't know what to say to you. I guess I just don't have this problem with law enforcement. Everyone has a story. "Oh I was just minding my own business and some cop came and beat me over the head." Does it happen? I'm sure it does, but I bet most deserve it. Me and some of the guys from the office went out for drinks after work today and actually talked about this... a pretty diverse group I would say. I'm still a bit shaken by some of the comments you've made and what you've taught your children. You condone violence and destruction. What about those innocent people? What about the loss the violence you stand behind and what it means to someone who lived an honest hard working life to build that business or buy that car that some piece of sh*t takes a brick to or burns down? I guess they somehow deserve it in your mind... or it's justified? As we sat there talking about this, I can say none of us have experienced the rampant abuse you speak of. I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, but I certainly think with the attitude you've made clear and your apparent history, that you certainly give off a vibe and I'd venture to say what your idea and my idea of respect for the law and law enforcement is very different.

Either way, I'll go back to my original point about what got this thread started. I don't care about people who willingly hurt, endanger, or take from others. I don't shed a tear for anyone who's spent their life taking, in whatever way, from those around them. I've been destitute in my life and I never once considered taking from someone else and certainly not just because they have something I want. Living by society's rules isn't hard, it's not always fun, isn't always what your want, but it's really not that hard to live an honest life. It's not hard at all. If you do break the rules, and we all have to one degree or another, you take your punishment and stigma that comes with it.

I find it odd that everyone seems suddenly shocked and confused and taken aback when something bad finally happens to someone bad. I don't live that kind of life and I never have, never will. I was raised to respect authority... not bow blindly, but have respect. Maybe that's the difference.

 

[highfihoney]

Everyone has a story. "Oh I was just minding my own business and some cop came and beat me over the head." Does it happen? I'm sure it does, but I bet most deserve it.

Wow,do you live in never never land where chocolate rainbows & rose colored skies fill the air.This what i call a classic example of an adult walking through life with blinders on.

If you put 1/10th the research into this subject that you have put into audio cables or the best bang for the buck receiver you'd quickly prove yourself wrong,ill do your reaserch for you.

Here your buddy's the cops in action,classic beat down & standard cover up,this guy deserved it too i suppose,what a great cop,took me all of 30 seconds to find this example.

Another 30 second search, Hopefully this maniac dont pull your wife over,too bad this woman deserved it,you'd be cool if this happened to your wife,right ?

Here is another thug who deserved his a$$ whopping,a kid laying on the ground helpless with a broken back was tasered by the police 19 times ,he deserved it because he wouldnt respond to their commands,he's got a broken back, ofcourse he wont respond but lets taser him anyway,he deserves it.

And last but not least,an example from the fine upstanding police in my state taking a guy on an elevator ride,ever been on one ? i have & i didnt like it either.

If you even cared to research this which im sure you dont you'd find out your 100% wrong when you say most deserve their beating,what a ridicolous statement for a grown adult to make

 

[unreal.freak]

Wow,do you live in never never land where chocolate rainbows & rose colored skies fill the air.This what i call a classic example of an adult walking through life with blinders on.

If you put 1/10th the research into this subject that you have put into audio cables or the best bang for the buck receiver you'd quickly prove yourself wrong,ill do your reaserch for you.

Here your buddy's the cops in action,classic beat down & standard cover up,this guy deserved it too i suppose,what a great cop,took me all of 30 seconds to find this example.

Another 30 second search, Hopefully this maniac dont pull your wife over,too bad this woman deserved it,you'd be cool if this happened to your wife,right ?

Here is another thug who deserved his a$$ whopping,a kid laying on the ground helpless with a broken back was tasered by the police 19 times ,he deserved it because he wouldnt respond to their commands,he's got a broken back, ofcourse he wont respond but lets taser him anyway,he deserves it.

And last but not least,an example from the fine upstanding police in my state taking a guy on an elevator ride,ever been on one ? i have & i didnt like it either.

If you even cared to research this which im sure you dont you'd find out your 100% wrong when you say most deserve their beating,what a ridicolous statement for a grown adult to make

Do you think anyone is going to film a cop doing his job well......No you dont. So there will naturally be way more videos of cops doing wrong than of them doing their jobs well.

Peace,
Tommy

 

[highfihoney]

Do you think anyone is going to film a cop doing his job well......No you dont. So there will naturally be way more videos of cops doing wrong than of them doing their jobs well.

Peace,
Tommy

Yup,just thousdands of "isolated incedents" with video proof all over the internet of "a few rogue cops" i suppose.

Its disturbing to you guys that ive taught my children to fear the police but the videos of people getting tased & the crap kicked out of them from the police are not even worthy of comment,only more exceuse to justify.

Welcome to the me generation.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Do you think anyone is going to film a cop doing his job well......No you dont. So there will naturally be way more videos of cops doing wrong than of them doing their jobs well.

Peace,
Tommy

Come'on, you must have seen this one...

 

[unreal.freak]

Yup,just thousdands of "isolated incedents" with video proof all over the internet of "a few rogue cops" i suppose.

Its disturbing to you guys that ive taught my children to fear the police but the videos of people getting tased & the crap kicked out of them from the police are not even worthy of comment,only more exceuse to justify.

Welcome to the me generation.

Under that same philosphy do also teach your kids to dislike doctors? There are tons of bad doctors who ruin peoples lives, I would take a risky guess and say that malpractice far excedes police brutality.

Im not condoning misconduct by LEO's. im saying that your philosphy on teaching your children to fear them based on some internet videos and a few issues you had with them, is flawed. They are your children and im not at all trying to tell you how to raise them. I am saying your a bit out of touch with reality if you think all LEO's are bad. You already admitted to breaking the law by growing weed before your wife was prescribed it. Why would any of us believe you didnt in any way deserve the treatment you recieved from the LEO's in your encounters with them?

Tommy

 

[MidnightSensi]

You already admitted to breaking the law by growing weed before your wife was prescribed it. Why would any of us believe you didnt in any way deserve the treatment you recieved from the LEO's in your encounters with them?

What does growing weed have to do with deserving to be mistreated by police? It's a dumb law and should be broken. He was growing a peaceful drug that has nothing to do with violence, unlike alcohol. I don't see the connection (I mean, I do see the connection people could make, but don't agree with it).

I think you should teach kids to be respectful of everyone, but cautious of things that can burn you if you aren't careful.

 

[itschris]

Im gonna go on record here as saying your post is one of the worst ive seen on any forum anywhere,if not the absolute worst,and just so the mods know i am not angry but i am in a state of disbelief.


Amazing.

Right back at you. I could not be more opposed to people like you and the mentality you hold. I've rode with cops a few times over the years and I see what they have to deal with... a lot of people like yourself who hate them. I never said abuse never happens. But I venture to guess it's a lot like the those in prison - they're all innocent or the victim of circumstance. Please.

You've preached and supported violence and hate and have called those who have died protecting their community "jack booted nazies" or whatever. And worse, you've taught your children this. Now that's shocking and sad at the same time.

Funny... my post is the worst? I've always found that the same people continually find themselves in trouble and on the wrong side of right and wrong over and over again. My brother is one of them. I know his story. You talk to hiim and you'll find it's always someone else's fault. The Man, The Big Machine.

The police can come to my house at any time and ask me whatever they want. I don't need to worry about tactics in dealing with law enforcement... I have notthing to fear or hide. The life you've lived has brought you down a different path.

Before this gets anymore personal, I'll drop out of this thread. Suffice it to say we are both strongly opposed to each other's ideas and how our lives are lived. I'd rather talk to you all day about all your Macintosh gear anyway.