Man Cave V2.0

[avliner]

Matt,

congrats; nice looking & powerful your setup!

You know what, don't take Mike's advices so seriously, otherwise THE ONLY ONE absorber for the EP 2500 will turn into ANOTHER EP 2500 (... and then WHY NOT a 3rd, 4th, 5th... SW's, + the power amps... well, you got the point, I guess)

Regards, Chuck

 

[Matt34]

that was fast!

some sort of absorber in between the EP2500 and sub would be the next step

Matt,

congrats; nice looking & powerful your setup!

You know what, don't take Mike's advices so seriously, otherwise THE ONLY ONE absorber for the EP 2500 will turn into ANOTHER EP 2500 (... and then WHY NOT a 3rd, 4th, 5th... SW's, + the power amps... well, you got the point, I guess)

Regards, Chuck

Thanks, I'm going to do the fan mod on the EP2500 and I'll use some of the Auralex MoPADs between the amp and sub.

Going to try out the Dark Knight tonight to break it all in.

 

[Matt34]

EQ'd the system using the YAPO and the SMS-1. Only big correction I did to the YAPO was change the Mains to small with a 60hz crossover. Changed the phase on the subs and got rid of a nasty dip, boosted 20hz a bit..cause I have the powa!!

Yeah, I'm running the subs a bit hot.

Family is out shopping right now, going to really crank it up and see what these new subs can do.

 

[Matt34]

Stir crazy part II

Four subs in the house, wth...right?

Infinity P362 crossed at 80hz to TSC ASW-8 using speaker inputs. LFE crossed at 40hz to the DS12 subs.

In talks right now with Mr. Chase aka Craigsub about filling in the deep bass void with his upcoming Sasquatch....more to come.

Playing some tunes off the Itouch...

 

[jostenmeat]

Dr. Meat says:

You've been diagnosed with mikeyceeitis!

 

[Matt34]

Dr. Meat says:

You've been diagnosed with mikeyceeitis!

Minor case of it.

Got my new quieter fan for the Ep2500 today.

 

[Matt34]

After a couple days messing around with the setup, I just was not happy with the bass output. I finally convinced myself it's a placement issue after messing with the SMS and x-over points. So I move the two DS12 subs behind the couch and re calibrated everything and now have the impact I was looking for in movies. I'm still going to get another sub because these two sealed units just don't go low enough but I'm happy for now.

 

[Matt34]

So far I've watched Kung-Fu Panda and Wall-E with the new configuration and I'm really enjoying the impact of a near-field placement. Much better than when I had them up in the front. The shuttle landing and taking off in Wall-E were great even though I had the volume fairly low because of the baby. I've also ran the Hospital scene in the DK which was a great rumble feast but I don't think it gets below 30hz in the scene...I could be wrong.

My problem in the living room, besides being fairly large, is the protruding fireplace. It seems like some of the bass waves get trapped and so it's difficult to get a uniformed sound. I think that is why have the subs near-field is the way to go. I still believe the future configuration will be using the DS12 subs as stereo subs up front with a TBD ported sub behind the couch. If I had the tools and the ability I'd build two more sealed boxes utilizing those Maelstrom 18".

 

[mike c]

how are the midbass subs? are they adding much? (are you enjoying the midbass bump?)

looks like you've got everything up to 20hz achieved! ...

 

[annunaki]

Matt,

Have you experimented with placing the one sub mid-way between each wall? I am unfamiliar with the subwoofer driver you are using. It may be possible to eq some additional deep bass for the subs if the driver remains linear near its peak excursion (not many are capable of this). Are the enclosures the proper size for those subs?

What are the crossover points you are utilizing the midbass units with? 80hz & 40hz? What slopes are you using with them?

 

[Matt34]

how are the midbass subs? are they adding much? (are you enjoying the midbass bump?)

looks like you've got everything up to 20hz achieved! ...

I'm still experimenting, I'll see better results when I use the DS12 as the mid-bass units but for now I'm enjoying the setup.

 

[Matt34]

Matt,

Have you experimented with placing the one sub mid-way between each wall? I am unfamiliar with the subwoofer driver you are using. It may be possible to eq some additional deep bass for the subs if the driver remains linear near its peak excursion (not many are capable of this). Are the enclosures the proper size for those subs?

What are the crossover points you are utilizing the midbass units with? 80hz & 40hz? What slopes are you using with them?

I am unable to place any subs on the side wall due to the fireplace and to the right of the viewing area is the dining room. I've bumped up the 20hz a little with the SMS-1 and it seems to help.

Yes those are my x-over settings using the AVR for the LFE crossover and the ASW-8 built in corssover for the 80hz to the mains. I'm unsure of a better way to do this or what slope to use, right now I am using none in the SMS-1.

Here are the specs for the subs I'm using in 2cu/ft sealed enclosures:

We have a limited inventory of 12" aluminum cone nonservo drivers. They are the same as our servo drivers except without the sensing coil. They are particularly suitable for 2 cu ft sealed box. Save $20 per driver when buying a pair or more. The T/S parameters are as follows.
Model DS12 nonservo

Enclosure size 2 cu ft sealed
3-4 cu ft vented
fs 26 Hz
BL 11.24
VAS 88 L
Qms 7.42
Qts 0.472
Sd 530 cm2
Re 2.80 ohms
Le 1.0 mH
Cone finish Black

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/clearance.html

 

[annunaki]

I am unable to place any subs on the side wall due to the fireplace and to the right of the viewing area is the dining room. I've bumped up the 20hz a little with the SMS-1 and it seems to help.

Yes those are my x-over settings using the AVR for the LFE crossover and the ASW-8 built in corssover for the 80hz to the mains. I'm unsure of a better way to do this or what slope to use, right now I am using none in the SMS-1.

Here are the specs for the subs I'm using in 2cu/ft sealed enclosures:

We have a limited inventory of 12" aluminum cone nonservo drivers. They are the same as our servo drivers except without the sensing coil. They are particularly suitable for 2 cu ft sealed box. Save $20 per driver when buying a pair or more. The T/S parameters are as follows.
Model DS12 nonservo

Enclosure size 2 cu ft sealed
3-4 cu ft vented
fs 26 Hz
BL 11.24
VAS 88 L
Qms 7.42
Qts 0.472
Sd 530 cm2
Re 2.80 ohms
Le 1.0 mH
Cone finish Black

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/clearance.html

Matt,

I will run the specs to check proper enclosure later. In the mean time, try one midbass and one "sub" up front, and one mid-bass & "sub" in back. This may balance the response a bit more evenly through out the room as well a help to reinforce your low end.

What does the response curve look like without eq?

I would set up the x-over as 18db/oct to 24db/oct low pass at 50hz on the actual subs. I would then set the midbass units at 24db/oct high pass at 50-60hz and then run lowpass at 12 db/oct to 18db/oct at 90 hz (on the midbass units). Obviously you run the same slope on the speakers then highpass.

I would try that to start.

 

[Matt34]

Matt,

I will run the specs to check proper enclosure later. In the mean time, try one midbass and one "sub" up front, and one mid-bass & "sub" in back. This may balance the response a bit more evenly through out the room as well a help to reinforce your low end.

What does the response curve look like without eq?

I would set up the x-over as 18db/oct to 24db/oct low pass at 50hz on the actual subs. I would then set the midbass units at 24db/oct high pass at 50-60hz and then run lowpass at 12 db/oct to 18db/oct at 90 hz (on the midbass units). Obviously you run the same slope on the speakers then highpass.

I would try that to start.

I'll give that placement idea a try. I can set the DS12 subs as you suggest but I don't think I will be able to do so with the mid-bass subs due to them begin connected to the receiver via highpass The 663 x-over points are 20, 40, 60, 80, etc. I really need to get myself a DCX2496 to do this right.

Give me a minute and I'll post up the un-EQ'd response.

 

[Matt34]

Here is my room without EQ. I ran the test tones right before this to verify all the channels were equal level at 75db.

 

[Matt34]

Preset six, did I interpret your suggestion correctly?

 

[annunaki]

Matt,

I assume that is with the current sub placement?

Set the mid-bass units at 60 hz highpass for now. Try it out. In any case place the mid-bass units near the individual sub units. Front & rear.

I would like to see the unadjusted EQ in that configuration before any suggestions. It will allow a better perspective at which is the better placement option.

Once that is nailed down, then the EQ can come into play.

 

[Matt34]

Matt,

I assume that is with the current sub placement?

Set the mid-bass units at 60 hz highpass for now. Try it out. In any case place the mid-bass units near the individual sub units. Front & rear.

I would like to see the unadjusted EQ in that configuration before any suggestions. It will allow a better perspective at which is the better placement option.

Once that is nailed down, then the EQ can come into play.

Yes that is the current sub placement, LFE subs behind the listening position and midbass subs up front. I think I'm going to get the DCX 2496 before moving the subs. Otherwise it's going to require two long runs for speaker wire for the midbass subs to the mains.

 

[annunaki]

Yes that is the current sub placement, LFE subs behind the listening position and midbass subs up front. I think I'm going to get the DCX 2496 before moving the subs. Otherwise it's going to require two long runs for speaker wire for the midbass subs to the mains.

Matt,

If you left one midbass unit up front and simply relocated one to the rear (moving a sub up front), it would only be one run of speaker wire.

Looking at the uncorrected response, you seem to have a null near 50hz. It could be due to some phase issues at the x-over point or simply a null in the room.

How does the system perform without the mid-bass units and the subs running up to 80hz or so?


The DCX2496 is a great tool. I am not sure you HAVE to get it quite yet though.

I modeled the DS-12 driver.

Any of the low end you are experiencing with any authority below 45hz or so is mostly due to room gain. In a 2.0 cu.ft. enclosure this driver has very peaked response.

A vented enclosure is a better alignment for this driver for home use. A 5.00 ft^3 enclosure tuned to 21hz using a 2.00" x 16" vent 33.5" long would be ideal. Yes, they will take up a bit more space, but they will give you in upwards of 11db more output (That is more than 2x as loud to the ear!) at 20hz compared to your current setup. The sub's response is much smoother as well. It may actually pay to keep the mid-bass units in that type of an application.

The current enclosures are limiting the low end response without an eq to help out.

 

[Matt34]

Well I took the ASW-8 subs out of the setup. I couldn't get it to work with my limited placement options so I'm back to just the two DS12 subs crossed-over at 80hz which seems to be the best for my room. I found by stacking them in the front corner gave me the smoothest response however. I only had a peak at around 32hz which I was able to tame for the most part. Everything else is pretty much flat up to 150hz besides the +3db house curve for movies.