Monster Cable Sues Blue Jeans Cable

[TLS Guy]

Steve: The Tartan site is about 2 to 3% of our overall business. Why is it there? Well, just in the last couple of years, we have been losing a very significant share of the business to people who do nothing but buy the absolute cheapest Chinese cable assemblies and sell them at very low prices. The price disparity is so large that when these issues get discussed on forums and the like, where our business is largely driven, there are huge numbers of people who turn up and talk about how our BJC products are overpriced, yadda yadda, and how anyone who is smart buys the rock-bottom-priced product (these people have never seen a sweep test report on a Chinese cable!). We wind up getting put in the same class with Monster; people think we're a big bloated overpriced outfit with enormous margins, when we are none of those things. For a long while, we could do nothing about it; we would get asked by customers why they should buy the American broadcast-quality product, and if we did not convince them, we simply lost the sale.Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

I've been saying it again and again. Don't buy junk. If you can only afford junk, don't buy anything.

Kurt, the cables you have supplied to me just ooze quality and are a pleasure to own. There is nothing wrong with a niche business and a reputation for class and quality. That is why I question the Tartan escapade. There is nothing to say you have to make every sale.

We do have our share of "wankers," as Eddy calls them, on this forum, however we have far more than our share of discerning members who are your loyal customers. We just need to reply to the threads, like "Need the best sub for under $200 fast", with a more appropriate reply. We just need to say, "no you don't, you need a cold shower."

We really have a responsibility to cut off the endless Chinese junk pipeline. They pollute. The junk goes wrong in a "flash", and ends up being a huge disposal problem

 

[KurtBJC]

Well, you know, I'm finding this discussion helpful. We have been trying to make sure that we don't get swept aside as the market shifts, and I think that we won't, but it's been a case of hedging bets just a bit; the worst thing one can do is wait so long to react to a competitive threat that the opportunity to effectively respond has passed you by. It is all food for thought, though, and it may be that as the market shifts away from analog (which is happening, to judge from the mix of our sales, quite rapidly) some of this may wind up becoming moot. Things have been changing very, very rapidly in the world of a/v cabling, and online commerce, that's for sure....

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

 

[S.R. Johnson]

I've been saying it again and again. Don't buy junk. If you can only afford junk, don't buy anything.

Kurt, the cables you have supplied to me just ooze quality and are a pleasure to own. There is nothing wrong with a niche business and a reputation for class and quality. That is why I question the Tartan escapade. There is nothing to say you have to make every sale.

We do have our share of "wankers," as Eddy calls them, on this forum, however we have far more than our share of discerning members who are your loyal customers. We just need to reply to the threads, like "Need the best sub for under $200 fast", with a more appropriate reply. We just need to say, "no you don't, you need a cold shower."

We really have a responsibility to cut off the endless Chinese junk pipeline. They pollute. The junk goes wrong in a "flash", and ends up being a huge disposal problem

well a funny thing happen to me about a couple of months ago. i was watching fox 4 news here in dallas, texas and they had a test between a component cable from dynex (a best buy cable) and two high priced monster component cabes. and after a few tests, they determined that all the cables did all of the test the same. even the tester said to save your money. now that is sad. after they did the test, they got a hold of the head of monster cable and he told the reporter that they should have tested the speed rated hdmi cables and the would see that his cables would better. what a crock of $#%*!! i for one will not buy monster cable anymore.

 

[jliedeka]

I'm sad to admit I own some Monster products. Mostly that consists of cables I bought before I knew better. Since then I've used BJ exclusively. I'd be tempted to take my Monster cables out and burn them but then I'd probably have to torch my power supply which would require me to buy a new one after spending $200. (sigh)

Jim

 

[mtrycrafts]

Nothing new for Monster Cable, though i find Noel's posted reply denying the facts humorous if, perhaps, an outright lie. Please see something i wrote that proves my point at enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/1104/money.htm

Yep, that is one of the cases I was thinking about
Then there is that snow bunny school or something.
and on it goes.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Well, on the face of it, that's a fair comment. But what I will say is that you might be surprised at how hard we have worked, behind the scenes, to TRY to source cable assemblies from non-Chinese suppliers. The dominance of the Chinese in this field right now is amazing.

I haven't any doubts as to your sincerity here. I just feel that it was unfortunate that at the end of the day you chose to go with the wholly Chinese-sourced Tartan branded cables.

Take HDMI cable, for example. To my knowledge, apart from our Belden HDMI, there is not and has never been an HDMI cable containing ANY non-Chinese parts or labor. So, when I find a cable assembler in a non-Chinese locale, not only do they have no source for raw unterminated cable, and no source for connectors, but they have nobody who has ever assembled one of these.

Yet all those Chinese companies that are making HDMI cables now, at some point also had nobody who had ever assembled one. How did they ever manage to overcome such an obstacle? Whatever happened to good ol' American ingenuity?

We beat the drum for American products all the time. But the fact is that in the consumer market right now, just as in the Wal-Mart, most people do not care about China's human rights record. They care mostly about the fact that they can pick up goods really, really cheap. And when it comes to arguments about product quality, many people are completely indifferent.

Yes. But this is really nothing new. The mass market has typically always gone for whatever is cheapest. And I think it's a mistake for you to look at these people as "lost sales." They're not your market.

So, if you choose to think less of us because of the Tartan line, well, so be it. But bear in mind that while that site is 2 or 3% of our business, the great majority of our competitors in the consumer market are selling nothing but Chinese product; if seeing our 2 or 3% gets you upset, then the 99% elsewhere ought to really get you twisted up.

I wouldn't necessarily say I think less of BJC because of the Tartan line. I just think it's unfortunate and I can't help thinking that there's no inherent reason BJC can't be successful without the Tartan line.

se

 

[MDS]

I tried to resist...but I have to add my two cents.

Kurt at BJC is about the most straight-shootin' technical/business person you will ever meet (or at least talk to on forums like this. ). The BJC site is just overflowing with solid no-nonsense information. It would be instructive for people to read the various technical articles and form their own opinion.

Offering Tartan cables is a business decision. They describe in gory detail where HDMI cables are sourced, where they are assembled, and how they are trying to turn the situation around to be more America specific. They may or may not be successful but that depends on the market. As has been noted, the majority want the cheapest they can get and yet still don't realize that for all intents and purpose every single cable you can get, regardless of name brand or fancy bling/high price, is the same.

I'd pay a few bucks more for American made, not because I necessarily think that Americans will always do superior work, but for the sheer fact that low wage workers have no incentive to a good job. It's the same reason I am not going with the lowest cost installers to install porcelain tile in my house...I don't want these guys to work their a** off and make no money. I want them to have a reasonable incentive to do the best they can for me.

And...with BJC we aren't exactly talking a huge markup anyway. Even their fancy dancy double bond Belden cables are 1/3 the price of Monster and other 'recognizable' names.

I'd much rather support a company that is forthright and details how and why they do things than the others that hide behind marketing gimmicks that a natural born skeptic like myself can see right through.

 

[KurtBJC]

Yet all those Chinese companies that are making HDMI cables now, at some point also had nobody who had ever assembled one. How did they ever manage to overcome such an obstacle? Whatever happened to good ol' American ingenuity?

If you come over to my shop when I'm not dodging hostile correspondence from Monster Cable, you may just find me soldering American-made HDMI cable to HDMI connectors which have a unique American-made backend which I personally designed and which was manufactured for me in Ohio, timing myself and trying to work out how to get the process time down. If you look at the Ohio-made backend on my connector prototypes, you'll see some American ingenuity, American design, and American manufacturing all in the flesh. The trick here is in getting process time down to an acceptable level. At the moment, I could terminate HDMI cable in the US easily enough, if every customer were willing to pay an additional $50 per cable; the challenge to us in high-labor-cost countries is to figure out how to work smarter, because we sure as heck can't work cheaper.

By the way: how do you suppose the Chinese solved the problem? Simple. If labor is $2.00 per day, you can pay people to solder cable to connectors without any great problem with efficiency. No particular ingenuity required. With benefits included, we pay our people in an hour ten times what the Chinese pay in a day.

Good ol' American ingenuity isn't gone...at the same time, there is no positive assurance that we will succeed in resolving the problem, and if we don't, we will have spent an awful lot of time and money for nothing. I am optimistic about this. I wish, though, that we were a larger company and could more easily make time for development projects like this and push them through faster; perhaps we would have resolved the issues already and would be selling some American-terminated HDMI.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

 

[markw]

The irony of this whole thing is that by making this big stink, Monster is insinuating that Tartan cables give their high-priced spread a run for the money. ...says a lot about Monster's real vs perceived price and quality, doesn't it?

but, I digress...

This thread is becoming quite a wake-up call as to the realities of manufacturing and marketing in a global economy.

A lot of high-minded ideals can die a quick death when the light of real world economics is shined upon them. It's easy to claim the high road when cost is no object. Ask Brangelina.

Keep up the good work, Kurt. You're doing the best you can considering the hand you're (we're) dealt. Not everyone can afford the high prices of 100% American parts and labor for boutique cables and, even if they could, the cost/benefit ratio of audible differences would be debatable.

As for Tatrtan, it's nice to have a choice. somebodies gonna sell the low end stuff. Why must it be someone else. At least they are fairly priced. Monster cable quality at real-world prices?

 

[TLS Guy]

The irony of this whole thing is that by making this big stink, Monster is insinuating that Tartan cables give their high-priced spread a run for the money. ...says a lot about Monster's real vs perceived price and quality, doesn't it?

but, I digress...

This thread is becoming quite a wake-up call as to the realities of manufacturing and marketing in a global economy.

A lot of high-minded ideals can die a quick death when the light of real world economics is shined upon them. It's easy to claim the high road when cost is no object. Ask Brangelina.

Keep up the good work, Kurt. You're doing the best you can considering the hand you're (we're) dealt. Not everyone can afford the high prices of 100% American parts and labor for boutique cables and, even if they could, the cost/benefit ratio of audible differences would be debatable.

As for Tatrtan, it's nice to have a choice. somebodies gonna sell the low end stuff. Why must it be someone else. At least they are fairly priced. Monster cable quality at real-world prices?

I'll pay quite a bit more for a cable that fits the RCA socket correctly and not break when gently adjusted by pliers, because its made of cheap pot metal that is not a suitable material for an RCA connector anyway. That was my one and only experience with Monstrosity cable. To boot, they are not cheep, just look well made.

I have just been though an ordeal with plumbing fittings made by America's largest plumbing manufacturer. These parts, which look OK and don't state their country of origin, fail.

We did a big remodel here two years ago. In December we had a major plumbing leak in the wall. It turned out a 1/2 inch brass but had split! It was about 18 months old. I go to Lindy's at Benedict and find out that another brass fitting they had to replace in a new home had failed. It caused $80,000 in damage I went on the net and found these fittings are failing all over the place. This is a remote area and I have become aware of a home that got hit twice by these fittings and another one hit badly. That's five incidents for this area that I'm aware of.

I got the company to admit this junk was made in China. I also found out that the Chinese put in any ratio of metals they feel like, including a lot of lead, which they are obviously not supposed to do. I raised holy hell with this outfit and got them to send me a check for the damage and getting all their Chinese junk out of my wall and floor spaces.

The job took 11 full working days. We really had to pull the place apart and it made a hell of a mess. I'm ready to recommend closing the books on China.

I need hardly point out that quality brass fittings have been successfully manufactured for over 200 years. It took corporate perfidy, stupidity, greed and Asian manufacture to get us to this remarkable low point.

Now there have been billions of these fittings sold, especially in the big box stores. What's worse I have found out this is not the only company having failures of brass fittings of Asian manufacture failing in ridiculous numbers.

This will all be reflected in your insurance premiums. I have spoken with people in the insurance industry and this nonsense is going to cause more property damage than Hurricane Katrina by far.

Collectively we all have to do our parts to stop what is now a massive sprint to the bottom in modern manufacture.

 

[dorokusai]

This is another example of ridiculous behavior on the part of Monster Cable. That's all I can say.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[haraldo]

I have bought many of my cables from BJC. Fantastic guys, Fantastic Service, Worldwide delivery in less than a week.
Generally, I get my stuff to Norway in 5 days!!!

I'm following up and throwing out all my Monster stuff. Replace by BJC.

I have posted a few threads other places on this subject:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6819971#post6819971

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=290908#post290908

regards

Harald N

 

[haraldo]

You can say no to donations all you want but you can't stop us from buying more stuff from BJC.

BTW On Saturday I placed an order for some HDMI cables for my new TV, a Y splitter for my future dual sub set up and locking banana plugs because BJC apparently sells the best ones. They arrived 2 days later on a Monday.

Thanks for doing what you do: selling quality products at reasonable prices while providing us with an education on this whole A/V thing.

-Alex

The Locking banana plugs are the best I have seen.... And they are cheap.... A stone cold bargain if you ask me

And I have sent emails to the largest national audio magazines on this, hope they're printing something on this. The largest one covers all of Scandinavia.... Watch out "Bully cable", I mean "Monster Cable"

Steve Eddy is right. Those Tartan cables are made by Copartner who have 12 manufacturing facilities in Asia.

That's bad. We need to put a stop to Asian junk. If we don't put American's back to work and start making things for ourselves again, we will quickly be the Third World!

That's important, I believe that's why Meadowlark Audio in Watertown NY went out of business, to tough to compete with dirt cheap products made in China

B.T.W. Many genuine U.S. Products are very highly regarded over here, and I think they sell better then ever before

 

[mtrycrafts]

B.T.W. Many genuine U.S. Products are very highly regarded over here, and I think they sell better then ever before

That is good to hear. I bet it is because of the weak $$$

 

[Sheep]

I was a Union Ironworker in the 80's. We were big on the buy American bandwagon but no one listened and I stopped trying to convert people. I am label conscious in all my consumer affairs......from food to clothes. I used to say buy American but I gave up. I still won't drive a foreign car......

I have to comment on this...

You know that most Foreign cars are built in the US and Canada? You aren't accomplishing **** by boycotting them.

SheepStar

 

[haraldo]

That is good to hear. I bet it is because of the weak $$$

No nothing to do with the $, but it's certainly more affordable now...
Brands like Krell, Parasound, Martin Logan always had a good reputation ....

 

[Steve Eddy]

As i recall, there may be some human rights violations within his overseas manufacturing facility, or was it a basic employee strike or was it the way they let go of their American counterparts or ???

Been busy lately and haven't had time for lengthy posts, but Ray Kimber EMailed this to me a couple days ago saying he was also short for time and asked me to post it.

Justice for Monster Cable Workers

se

 

[davidtwotrees]

I have to comment on this...

You know that most Foreign cars are built in the US and Canada? You aren't accomplishing **** by boycotting them.

SheepStar

Sorry, but more money stays in america when I buy a ford or chevy than it does when I purchase a Toyota or a Honda. Also, last I checked, there were no parts supplied by Ford and Chevy in the Japanese Zeros that attacked Pearl Harbor. I did say that I gave up on telling people to buy american, right?
I was raised to make purchases of goods and services thusly........
buy from family, friends, locally, regionally, nationally, globally....in that order.

I'm tired of hearing Let the market decide....which to me translates to let the people who run the market decide what is best.....usually meaning best for them first. People are buying the cheapest. Because they can get more for their money. But as for america, that cheapest is best, is really a short sighted mindset. Eliminating jobs is best for this country? I defended this argument as all the blue collar jobs left the country. Now I've shut up and am waiting for the big dollar white collar and professional jobs to start leaving.....perhaps then we'll see some action. Otherwise, meh, go buy the cheapest, it's a free country.......

 

[mouettus]

Sorry, but more money stays in america when I buy a ford or chevy than it does when I purchase a Toyota or a Honda.

Yes. And you have to get 2 american cars while 1 get only one imported due to reliability. We pay the big bucks for those things. Why wouldn't I want the one who lasts the longer and gives me less problems over time? How far will you spend more money for supporting your country?

I'm tired of hearing Let the market decide....which to me translates to let the people who run the market decide what is best.....usually meaning best for them first. People are buying the cheapest. Because they can get more for their money. But as for america, that cheapest is best, is really a short sighted mindset.

I'm not always buying the cheapest. I try to make my hard earned canadian doller go as far as possible. Someday it might be a Chevy Impala... when reliability and gaz consumption will be improved.

Eliminating jobs is best for this country? I defended this argument as all the blue collar jobs left the country. Now I've shut up and am waiting for the big dollar white collar and professional jobs to start leaving.....perhaps then we'll see some action. Otherwise, meh, go buy the cheapest, it's a free country.......

The guy who makes the best product deserves my money, deserves his job. May he be white, black, yellow or polka dotted.

 

[Audioholics]

Justice for Monster Cable Workers

This is how it reads to me:

1) Monster Cable offered an initial severance pay package to workers it laid off
2) Workers attempted to organize and get more
3) Monster said "screw you" and pulled all severance

This is kind of the way I'd hope most companies would handle this type of scenario to be honest. I hate unions and no one is guaranteed severance (or even a job for that matter) except as stipulated under employee contract (which does not seem to be the case here or it would be in court and not on the streets.)

If they wanted "justice" they would have gotten laid off with no offer of any severance period. That's how it works across most of the country. What they got was an offer of some severance. What they did (apparently) was demand MORE.

Striking Hollywood writers? Fire them all and put out an APB for new ones.

Striking auto workers? Shut down the plant for 6 months, rehire and retrain new employees for far less money (people would flock to the cities for this type of work).