When is justice to be served?

[Joe Schmoe]

The war in divisive only because the majority of the public has been led astray by liberal anti-American sentiment.

No, we have not been led astray. The war is divisive because it is wrong. (If Bush is replaced by a democrat, the other half of you will despise him or her, hence my use of "either half".)

 

[Halon451]

No, we have not been led astray. The war is divisive because it is wrong. (If Bush is replaced by a democrat, the other half of you will despise him or her, hence my use of "either half".)

(sigh...) Which half am I on Joe? How many times and how many different ways must I repeat it? I'm not going to despise anyone who is fit to lead this country the way it needs to be led, be it Democrat or Republican! The fact that I don't see a Democratic solution at this point in our nation's history does not indicate that I am a staunch Republican. My god, no wonder there is no hope for this nation coming together - I have written a short novel at this point on this thread on the virtues of proper leadership, proper courses of action and the implications on our welfare as a country (Red OR Blue) and all you can do is continue to label and by doing so you divide.

Hopeless... why exactly is the war wrong Joe? In your opinion.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

why exactly is the war wrong Joe? In your opinion.

War is always wrong! Participation in war is (on very rare occasions) justified if there is truly no other viable option, which is not the case now, but even then the war itself is wrong.
The last war in which US participation was fully justified was WWII.

 

[Halon451]

War is always wrong! Participation in war is (on very rare occasions) justified if there is truly no other viable option, which is not the case now, but even then the war itself is wrong.
The last war in which US participation was fully justified was WWII.

But war is inevitable. Justified or not, it's going to happen. It's called reality. We cannot live inside a bubble and pretend we're safe either - our enemies have proven to us that we are not. I'd rather not see anymore loss of life due to war, ever again, period - but I don't live in a dreamworld either, and survival has always meant conflict; throughout the entire history of humanity, and throughout every animal species on the planet.

Your above statement contradicts itself so loudly that at first I wasn't even going to comment on it, but I guess I just did.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Your above statement contradicts itself

You are free to contradict my statement, but no, it does not contradict itself.
Your record for correct statements stands at around 1% or so.

 

[Halon451]

You are free to contradict my statement, but no, it does not contradict itself.
Your record for correct statements stands at around 1% or so.

Nice response there - don't worry I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Nice response there - don't worry I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

If you had made some sort of effort to explain your false conclusion that my statement was logically inconsistent, I could have proven you wrong. Since you did not, there is nothing to refute.

 

[haraldo]

I'm sure some folks are happy about that. I'm sick of yelling at the top of my lungs: ignorance, p.c., laxapathy and the enemy within will bring this once proud and noble country to it's end and those that decry the right as alarmists, bigoted, war-mongering and un-caring will be leading the parade, while burning the flag, all in the name of free speech. What's ironic, in the former Soviet countries even after years of brutal oppression no citizen burns their flag, in the middle east no one burns their flags, only here in the land of dumb and blind it's considered freedom of speech. People have long confused freedom of speech with rebellious treachery. And before you accuse the forefathers about being rebellious to England, remember that England was a monarchy, which is still a form of dictatorship benign or not. And our forefathers had the courage to follow through with their intent, something the cowards who hide behind the veil of "freedom of speech" will never dare, no they rather work behind the scenes, start at the root and slowly kill the tree. Well we're here, I feel sorry for my kid and his kids, what they're going to inherit will be an abomination.

Beats me why things are like that, I believe the English, French and Spanish were much worse and cruel in their colonial warfares a couple of hundred years ago, this is all forgotten by now......

Harald

 

[haraldo]

Well, as I said before - Bush is on his way out, so all you have to tolerate is another 7.5 months. Point being is that Bush is not the focal point of this discussion. What I'm talking about transcends Presidential terms and revolves around a common sense of decency, pride and patriotism that makes this country what it is. You take away these elements and we fall like a house of cards, no matter who is currently sitting in the Oval Office. The war in divisive only because the majority of the public has been led astray by liberal anti-American sentiment. There is a tremendous force working within our system/culture that is bent on our self-destruction and it's easy enough for me to see how easily the leftist liberal masses are buying right into it, and also how flimsy the Right wing methods have become in formulating a protocol to respond. Hopeless? Certainly seems so, at least until more people start waking up to reality in this country.

So go ahead Joe - take another sip of the Kool-Aid.

A thing that I seem to be missing here, not in your post, but generally.... or perhaps I'm not reading well enough

You're writing a lot about what's wrong and what's right, who's idiot or not idiot's....

But how do you really want the outside world to perceive the US?
What do you want others to think about you guys in the US?
Is that important,? I don't know.... Will it stop people from burning flags? I don't know, perhaps it will... if people think about it and use that as a foundation to support whatever you du .......

Perhaps this is all bullshit, perhaps I'm writing before thinking, I very often do that........

Harald

 

[markw]

If you had made some sort of effort to explain your false conclusion that my statement was logically inconsistent, I could have proven you wrong. Since you did not, there is nothing to refute.

So, we should have just shrugged off 9/11, the '93 WTC bombing, the USS Cole, and various other attacks on us, either here or overseas, eh?

 

[haraldo]

http://pop.youtube.com/watch?v=SeRhAfxxcdU

Thanks, this is great stuff

 

[markw]

Good points

Beats me why things are like that, I believe the English, French and Spanish were much worse and cruel in their colonial warfares a couple of hundred years ago, this is all forgotten by now......

Harald

I don't think Spanish and Portuguese were the native languages of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America.

 

[haraldo]

I don't think Spanish and Portuguese were the native languages of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America.

That really says a lot doesn't it !!!

 

[haraldo]

War is always wrong! Participation in war is (on very rare occasions) justified if there is truly no other viable option, which is not the case now, but even then the war itself is wrong.
The last war in which US participation was fully justified was WWII.

Do you think it was wrong to Throw Saddam out of Kuwait when in fact the country of Kuwait was begging for help

-Harald

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Do you think it was wrong to Throw Saddam out of Kuwait when in fact the country of Kuwait was begging for help

-Harald

Do you seriously think we would have responded to the Kuwaitis "begging for help" if we had not had oil interests there to protect? You really are naive if you think that the US government ever acts from altruistic motives.

 

[haraldo]

Do you seriously think we would have responded to the Kuwaitis "begging for help" if we had not had oil interests there to protect? You really are naive if you think that the US government ever acts from altruistic motives.

If you've read any of my previous posts you would know my thoughts about that.

No I don't think US would have responded if there weren't oil resources there.... Does that make the war wrong and illegal?

Still, The Kuwait war must have been one of the most justifiable wars in a long long time....

Regards

Harald N

 

[Halon451]

So, we should have just shrugged off 9/11, the '93 WTC bombing, the USS Cole, and various other attacks on us, either here or overseas, eh?

I'm guessing apparently so, according to Joe. He probably never learned to fight back at the school bully back in his day either.

 

[Halon451]

Do you seriously think we would have responded to the Kuwaitis "begging for help" if we had not had oil interests there to protect? You really are naive if you think that the US government ever acts from altruistic motives.

If I were you I'd really refrain from calling someone else naive until you've spent some considerable time outside whatever little country bumpkin redneck BFE town you've been stuck in, with no clear perspective of the outside world beyond what you see on TV or read about in the paper. Who knows, it might help open your mind up a little - buy a passport Joe, take a few trips.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

If I were you I'd really refrain from calling someone else naive until you've spent some considerable time outside whatever little country bumpkin redneck BFE town you've been stuck in, with no clear perspective of the outside world beyond what you see on TV or read about in the paper. Who knows, it might help open your mind up a little - buy a passport Joe, take a few trips.

You are welcome to your opinion, in spite of being wrong.

 

[Halon451]

But how do you really want the outside world to perceive the US?

Good question. I have seen much of the outside world's perception of the US firsthand from my visits overseas, and though I have seen a lot of anti-American sentiment, I have also been astonished at the overwhelming postitive reaction from some foreign natives whom I've met with regards to America. See, the liberal media will like you to believe that we're monsters, and that the whole world is against us. Not necessarily true in all regards, based on my experiences.

What do you want others to think about you guys in the US?

That our wives are hot, and that we can drink 93 octane and breathe fire?

Is that important,? I don't know.... Will it stop people from burning flags? I don't know, perhaps it will... if people think about it and use that as a foundation to support whatever you du .......

Perhaps this is all bullshit, perhaps I'm writing before thinking, I very often do that........

Harald

There's too much forcus on negative aspects when it comes to these things. It's not bullshit - it's a very good line of questioning, IMO - we should definitely be concerned with our perception in the global stage - diplomacy is always the preferred method, but diplomacy is not always the answer. Sometimes we just have to bomb the f**k out of some b**ches. Pardon my unprofessionalism.

That one was for you Joe.