Massacre at Virginia Tech

[highfihoney]

The last disaster like this happened in Texas, he was a US citizen, too early to jump to conclusion, its a sad and tragic affair, just like Columbine, time for automatic weapon sales to be curbed.

Your right on both counts,i may be wrong & wasnt trying to slam anybody but i have a severe distrust of all media & institutions,im old enough now that ive seen enough stupid stunts from institutions that i automatically think they are stalling to either white wash something or cover something up.

The whole information stall job just smells like a rat to me.

 

[mike c]

you're right, revenge and justice aren't the same.

but personally, I'd want revenge ... and I mean PERSONALLY.

 

[rtcp]

The last disaster like this happened in Texas, he was a US citizen, too early to jump to conclusion, its a sad and tragic affair, just like Columbine, time for automatic weapon sales to be curbed.

The shooter was using one or two semi-automatic handguns.

I'm a college student myself. I was in middle school when Columbine happened. It's difficult to understand the impact of a school shooting if you aren't involved in one, but ever since I've gone to college and seen the crowds of students carrying backpacks full of hard work and textbooks, I've realized that there are thousands of young, promising, hard working students just itching to learn and apply their knowledge. It's truly tragic that a vestibule of knowledge and learning like that should become a target for murder.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Well demonstration of concern won’t help those poor souls from yesterday expect firearms should have tighter laws in the USA now!

I’m horrified.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

You can bet the anti-gun liberal pundits will be crying for more gun control. Afterall, people arent killers..... guns are to blame. Our nations citizens aren't to blame for being overweight.... it's McDonalds fault, etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately for them, their faulty liberal logic doesn't hold water. The only thing gun control laws accomplish is to disarm the law abiding citizen.

 

[Audioholics]

Just remember that gun control works best for people who obey the laws.

Automatic weapons, rifles and handguns are already very regulated. It's an understandable natural gut-reaction to say we should limit access to various guns, but there are just as many people in that situation who would have been much better off had they had the abillity to shoot this guy when he started open-firing.

As Matt34 said, if only one teacher or student were armed this would likely have been a much "smaller" tragedy. Criminals already break laws - and our (ironic) reaction is to make more laws to limit the rights of law-abiding citizens.

This is indeed a tragedy.

 

[Yamahaluver]

When I taught at NYC high schools, I carried my 10mm Glock, my theory was even if I have to die, won't die with my hands up in the air, luckily never had to use it during my teaching time there but lots of near volatile situations happened though, nothing that needed my gun. Point is, carrying a gun is a dual edged sword, yes, it afforded my protection for myself as well as anyone in danger, however since as humans, we all do a tightrope walk on the thin line of sanity, its impossible to predict volatility and control of one's own temper.

 

[markw]

Now, you've done it. You've made this a political issue.

Well demonstration of concern won’t help those poor souls from yesterday expect firearms should have tighter laws in the USA now!

I’m horrified.

First off, my sympathies are to those who lost loved ones, those who have had to live through this and to all who, although not directly affected, still shave concerns for their loved ones who are vulnerable by being potential victims in similar situations.

And, to Nichols 50, great post and may He be with you and y'all there.

Now, as it turns out, it was a foreign exchange student from China.

Secondly, as for the guns, before anyone can cry "more gun control", it remains to be seen how he obtained those guns. Very, very few gun crimes are committed by the legal owners of the guns.

And, for Dolby, before coming off so smug, let's consider the logistics of our two countries.

The US has a population around 200 million people and an area of about 9.6 million acres while England has a total population of about 60 million people and an area of approximately .25 million acres.

So, proportionally, you've got about 30% of our population in about .026 percent of the area. Obviously, it's easier to keep the sheep under control in a tiny field, but when you let them run about the entire county, problems controlling them will arise.

Even so, you still had problems with terrorists lately, didn't you? Where did your tight control help in preventing that?

Where we do fall short, however, is in not prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law, the actual criminals. A slow, steady dilution of the justice system has led to a situation where criminals are not held fully accountable for their transgressions.

IOW, it's not the registered gun owners that are the problem, it's those that obtain them legally.

 

[obscbyclouds]

This really is heartbreaking. Senseless murders, people's Sons, Daughters, Brothers, Sisters, etc. It's impossible to take anything positive from an massacre like this. I hope everyone involved recieves the help and peace they need.

We are in a lot of trouble in the future if this is our response to a single gunman attacking a soft target. The police seemed confused and unsure of what to do. What happens when Al-Qaeda decides to attack us in some kind of coordinated way? Have we learned nothing from Sept. 11th? They aren't going to attack military bases (or probably even airplanes/airports) again. They are going to look for places with weaknesses such as Universities, where they can kill as many people as possible. Look to that school attack in Russia 2 or 3 years ago where the Chechyn (SP?) Rebels took over and murdered so many children.

Gun control will only get us so far. Generally, people willing to murder dozens of innocent people don't follow gun laws. In a country of 300 million people, we aren't bound to have crazy ones who don't respect other's lives. So where do we go from here? Certainly better Police response to a murder in a sensitive place would help. Remember the Gunman was still AWOL , why the heck are you not securing the rest of the university as well?

I guess I'm not sure what can be done, it just all seems to senseless and sad.

 

[Swerd]

Just remember that gun control works best for people who obey the laws.

Automatic weapons, rifles and handguns are already very regulated. It's an understandable natural gut-reaction to say we should limit access to various guns, but there are just as many people in that situation who would have been much better off had they had the abillity to shoot this guy when he started open-firing.

As Matt34 said, if only one teacher or student were armed this would likely have been a much "smaller" tragedy. Criminals already break laws - and our (ironic) reaction is to make more laws to limit the rights of law-abiding citizens.

This is indeed a tragedy.

Yes this is indeed a tragedy. But this kind of argument also doesn't hold any water. I fail to understand how arming the general public could prevent such awful shootings. It leads me to imagine dozens or hundreds of panicked students blazing away at each other. Just how could that help?

Although the shooter may have been deranged, he acted with obvious premeditation. He had at least two semiautomatic handguns, a 22 and a 9 mm, and numerous clips already loaded with bullets that he kept in pockets of a vest he wore. Eyewitnesses described how he fired and reloaded rapidly, as though he had plenty of practice. He carried no ID. The serial numbers of the guns were defaced and not easily read. He carried chains and padlocks that he used to barricade two separate doorways to the classroom building. No students could leave and no police could enter through those doors. He killed himself only when the police had entered the building. And finally, when he turned his gun on himself, he disfigured his face so badly that it was difficult to recognize him. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to stop a person who is determined to die while causing such death and destruction.

New reports now say, the shooter purchased his guns just last March. Virginia law allows relatively unfettered gun purchases with no waiting period. Somebody has a lot of explaining just how a possibly mentally ill individual could arm himself in such a deadly way. But just as I said in my previous paragraph, it would be difficult to anticipate the actions of such a person.

Let's postpone all gun law arguments until we actually know the facts and the shock of this terrible event settles some.

 

[Swerd]

just a few corrections...

First off, my sympathies are to those who lost loved ones, those who have had to live through this and to all who, although not directly affected, still shave concerns for their loved ones who are vulnerable by being potential victims in similar situations.

And, to Nichols 50, great post and may He be with you and y'all there.

Now, as it turns out, it was a foreign exchange student from China.

Secondly, as for the guns, before anyone can cry "more gun control", it remains to be seen how he obtained those guns. Very, very few gun crimes are committed by the legal owners of the guns.

And, for Dolby, before coming off so smug, let's consider the logistics of our two countries.

The US has a population around 200 million people and an area of about 9.6 million acres while England has a total population of about 60 million people and an area of approximately .25 million acres.

So, proportionally, you've got about 30% of our population in about .026 percent of the area. Obviously, it's easier to keep the sheep under control in a tiny field, but when you let them run about the entire county, problems controlling them will arise.

Even so, you still had problems with terrorists lately, didn't you? Where did your tight control help in preventing that?

Where we do fall short, however, is in not prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law, the actual criminals. A slow, steady dilution of the justice system has led to a situation where criminals are not held fully accountable for their transgressions.

IOW, it's not the registered gun owners that are the problem, it's those that obtain them legally.

The shooter was a resident alien from South Korea, not China. He was not a foreign exchange student. He and his family lived in northern Virginia where he attended high school. Apparently he violated no laws in Virginia when purchased his guns, although it is fair to point out that Virginia has among the least restrictive gun laws in the USA.

In general, I agree with you that it is the wrong time and place for this kind of political argument.

 

[masak_aer]

My prayers to friends and family to those affected. It is truly a tragedy of what had happened. I learnt about the first incident at around 9:30 when my boss' niece called her parents from the campus (thank God she was ok). It is just so shocking.

Many questions and concerns will arise from this tragedy as I would have expected. Why the university had been so slow in responding? Has the counselor for the student followed the proper way of handling "troubled" student (this jackass was apparently showing some troubling behavior)? How could this kid buy a gun so easily? Isn't there supposed to be a waiting period or may there should be a tougher and thorough background check of a person buying a gun?
How could all these be prevented? Getting more armed security guards in every school buildings? I hope the government and schools can sort these things out.

I am still in disbelief in all these. So many questions, so few answers. .

Personally I want revenge (which at some point i feel ashamed since I have thought of very evil things i'd do if he had been captured alive) .

 

[stratman]

Awful tragedy, my heart goes out to all the the students and families of VT. I must empahasize this is not a time for political hacking, no matter what side of the gun issue you sit on. I'm flabbergasted at how quick the mass media wants to point fingers and pass blame, I'm repulsed by the johnny-come-latelies and the Monday morning quaterbacks with their ridiculous answers to this nightmare. The truth is no one knows all the facts yet and making second guesses and pushing political agendas is disgusting and shameful. What the media should be concentrating on is the onus of correct reporting of the events, not reinventing the story as they see fit and convinient to them. Again, let's just think of those parents, sons and daughters that won't be seeing their loved ones ever again, this should be the focus for now. It could have been one of us.

 

[Audioholics]

Some clarification as to why peole are mad at the authorities - I was very confused about this at first, now I think I understand:

Police say Cho killed two people in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a dormitory near his own, shortly after 7:00 a.m. Monday. Then, two hours later, he opened fire in Norris Hall, a classroom building across campus.

Reporters continued to ask today why administrators did not cancel classes after the first shooting, and why it took more than two hours to inform the university community via e-mail about the first incident. The first e-mail notifying students of the dorm shooting was not sent by the school until 9:24 a.m — by which time the second shooting was already over.

 

[Kracker]

I think that the shooting at the school was a sad event along with any other school shootings. I think that the first thing that people are going to say is we need more gun control. But I think this is not the case here. Obvisouly gun control laws do not stop gang members from getting guns or people who cant buy them legally. And if more people were to carry concealed weapons people wouldnt be so willing to shoot at someone if they dont know if there armed or not ( would you take that chance?). Lots of people think that guns were made for killing or harming other people. But there are alot more people who own guns that dont shoot people they own them for hobby reasons, like target shooting and hunting. I think the saying "guns kill people" is wrong. Put a gun on a table and stand by it what happens, your standing next to a gun on the table. Someone has to make the gun kill someone.

 

[Swerd]

Some clarification as to why peole are mad at the authorities - I was very confused about this at first, now I think I understand:

Police say Cho killed two people in West Ambler Johnston Hall, a dormitory near his own, shortly after 7:00 a.m. Monday. Then, two hours later, he opened fire in Norris Hall, a classroom building across campus.

Reporters continued to ask today why administrators did not cancel classes after the first shooting, and why it took more than two hours to inform the university community via e-mail about the first incident. The first e-mail notifying students of the dorm shooting was not sent by the school until 9:24 a.m — by which time the second shooting was already over.

It may be natural to be angry and express a desire for revenge. I believe it is also counterproductive. It does nothing to help the people affected at Virginia Tech and their families.

I was angered last night when I saw network news anchors fanning the flames of the blame game by repeatedly asking the same questions you did. Virginia Tech University has some 26,000 students, 9,000 live on campus. The remainder, as well as faculty and staff were coming in from off-campus. To stop all this at 8 am would be like turing the Titanic. It may well have taken over 3 hours to get the word out. How many people read their email upon waking up on Monday morning?

Why didn't they respond immediately after the first shootings around 7 am? Don't forget that there were three false bomb threats on campus on the previous Friday. It caused havoc. The school authorities did not want to repeat that, and risk loosing all credability. They also had reason to believe that the first shootings were of a "domestic nature" and as such were limited.

If they did lock down all classrooms, where would people go? Out onto the big drill field in the middle of campus? That could easily have been more dangerous.

I think all the blame game and second guessing is unfair and wrong. I personally think the TV news media should be publicly smacked for their role in propagating this.

 

[Rickster71]

Well said Buckeye

You can bet the anti-gun liberal pundits will be crying for more gun control. Afterall, people arent killers..... guns are to blame. Our nations citizens aren't to blame for being overweight.... it's McDonalds fault, etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately for them, their faulty liberal logic doesn't hold water. The only thing gun control laws accomplish is to disarm the law abiding citizen.

It's a sad day when people assign responsibility, and intent to inanimate objects.

 

[WorldLeader]

Just a quick word.

I was a semi-witness to the Columbine shootings, as I was attending school in Littleton, Colorado. I wasn't at Columbine, but it would have been my high school had I stayed in Colorado. My classroom was locked down and we were escorted out by a SWAT team. Apparently my school was on a hit-list that was recovered, so extra precautions were taken.

The main factor that was arrived upon at Columbine was mostly that the shooters were social outcasts and frequently teased. I don't think that this was necessarily the case at VT, since issues like bullying aren't a big problem in college. The gunman at VT was obviously emotionally unstable and probably was "on his way out" for a while.

As much as it seems harsh to say this, I am not really surprised at all that this shooting occurred, given the shooter's rep. Some people are too far gone and really can't function normally, and sometimes the people in charge need to recognize this and remove this person from the system. I don't know specifically what was wrong with this gunman, but whenever you are running around laughing while shooting people you have issues that "counseling" can't solve.

 

[nichols540]

Day 2

It has been over a day now and I can finally look back at the situation. I was in Pamplin Hall, which is on the other side of Burrass than Norris. I got to class at 8:50, 15 minutes before class was to start at 9:05. I was supposed to have an Auditing exam at 11:15. I was in my accounting class (yes I am an accounting major, actually I am information systems audit, but that is not important) when my friend got a text message about the first shooting. The message was received at 9:35 from her friend, and at that time we went onto the VT website and saw the announcement. I know people are wondering why it took so long for all this to come out, yes I would have liked to have know sooner, but it would not have affected me because I was already in class by the time they could have gotten anything out. After I told my professor a friend of mine walked into class, he was 25 minutes early, and told us about the shooting in Norris. I later found out that he was taking the Auditing test I was meant to take later that morning. His auditing class was in Norris on the third floor. He had finished the test early, and one minute after he left the building he got a call from his girlfriend to tell him that someone was shooting in Norris. If he have heard about the teacher who led his students to another professor's office and secured themselves in there, that was his auditing class.

There was a lot of information floating around and we were all worried about friends. I do not blame the school or the police. I only wish I could have known sooner, but as I said for those people already in Norris it would not have helped. You cannot lock down a campus of our size, at all.

What I hope, in the days to come, is that we (as a school) can come together and start the healing process. I am at home right now with my family and friends. If any of you want to talk about blame, gun control or on the university or anything else, blame the person who did the shooting. I always have loved the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

I also want to thank all of you for your thoughts and prayers. You may not be directly connected to our campus, but this whole country is in mourning right now over this tragedy. Please keep your prayers coming. This day will be remembered forever, and I hope we (as a school and a nation) will learn to respect and love one another.

Thank you all and I will try to update the next time I have more information. And please continue to pray, we need it now and for a long time to come.

Brian

 

[stratman]

Hey Nichols,

Wow what can I say? I'm far away from VT, but I feel it here in Miami, I'm a parent of a 4 year old, I was telling my wife today "you send your kid of to college, you think they're going to be fine and then you get the phone call," you have to appreciate you family and friends everyday, you never know when your turn is up. My prayers will be with all at VT, please let us know how things are progressing.