Sigberg Audio Saranna Active Floor-Standing Loudspeakers With Cardioid Bass!

[Sigberg Audio]

I also see the title here says the speaker has "cardioid bass", that's a bit imprecise, just so no one thinks we're making stuff up.

We're not calling this speaker cardioid explicitly, but rather "with controlled directivity". Also, the dispersion is traditional below 200hz or so due to the fact that the rear facing bass drivers do not have any cardioid ports.

If you measure the coax alone, the side ports are actually effective all the way down in the deep bass, but that is negated by the bass drivers below around 200hz. But below that frequency the same problem is solved (or at least improved) in another way by having the rear facing bass drivers and port that couple to the nearest boundary, and are also spread vertically.

 

[TLS Guy]

I checked a current Denon now, it supports both redistributing LFE to the mains and also adjusting the level.

View attachment 72881

I have an 1 month or so old Marantz 7706 AVP. You can not send the LFE to a speakers other than subs. You can only direct the bass from other speakers to a sub and not the mains. I think this is pretty usual practice. I had not heard of an AVR or AVP previously that could direct the LFE to a speaker other than a sub.

In any event, what makes active speakers so attractive is the ability to perform tasks that passive ones can't. This allows for innovative ways to improve overall performance.

The fact that my full range main speakers can handle the LFE with ease and also one of the bass drivers offload the mids from BSC is a huge advantage. In addition this allows BSC to be made variable and set to room and speaker position. Five of the speakers in this system have variable BSC, although the side surrounds only have two settings. The ability to do this is why I don't need Audyssey, Dirac and programs of that ilk. It allows for perfect integration of the sub signals.

This is all not difficult to engineer with active speakers and really sets them apart.

So, I would strongly encourage to experiment along these lines. You will be surprised how these techniques substantially improve results over conventional passive speakers. I have a certainty you could enhance the advantages of your speakers being active, along these lines.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have an 1 month or so old Marantz 7706 AVP. You can not send the LFE to a speakers other than subs. You can only direct the bass from other speakers to a sub and not the mains. I think this is pretty usual practice. I had not heard of an AVR or AVP previously that could direct the LFE to a speaker other than a sub.

In any event, what makes active speakers so attractive is the ability to perform tasks that passive ones can't. This allows for innovative ways to improve overall performance.

The fact that my full range main speakers can handle the LFE with ease and also one of the bass drivers offload the mids from BSC is a huge advantage. In addition this allows BSC to be made variable and set to room and speaker position. Five of the speakers in this system have variable BSC, although the side surrounds only have two settings. The ability to do this is why I don't need Audyssey, Dirac and programs of that ilk. It allows for perfect integration of the sub signals.

This is all not difficult to engineer with active speakers and really sets them apart.

So, I would strongly encourage to experiment along these lines. You will be surprised how these techniques substantially improve results over conventional passive speakers. I have a certainty you could enhance the advantages of your speakers being active, along these lines.

FWIW I looked at the Denon 3800, 6800 and A1H manuals, all provide for an adjustment of LFE sent thru full range speakers. I assume the 4800 would, too. The 7706 reads like my 4700, tho...doesn't have that feature.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

We will not be implementing this feature, so I think we can move on from this. Happy to discuss other aspects of the speaker though.

 

[TLS Guy]

We will not be implementing this feature, so I think we can move on from this. Happy to discuss other aspects of the speaker though.

In that case a workaround will be required for many who don't want to ue a separate sub. I now find that the useful ATI buffer amp is discontinued. So the best solution will be a line mixer. For AVRs with no XLR one with either RCA or preferably RCA and XLR will do the trick. Alternatively users could construct their own. There are many circuits out there for buffer amps.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

In that case a workaround will be required for many who don't want to ue a separate sub. I now find that the useful ATI buffer amp is discontinued. So the best solution will be a line mixer. For AVRs with no XLR one with either RCA or preferably RCA and XLR will do the trick. Alternatively users could construct their own. There are many circuits out there for buffer amps.

I feel like you are constructing a problem here. 90% (maybe more) of large floorstanding speakers are still passive, and no one is complaining that they don't have a subwoofer input. I would prefer not to continue down this topic as it likely to confuse rather than enlight those who might be interested.

The Saranna will work as well or better than almost anything out there in any situation.

 

[TLS Guy]

I feel like you are constructing a problem here. 90% (maybe more) of large floorstanding speakers are still passive, and no one is complaining that they don't have a subwoofer input. I would prefer not to continue down this topic as it likely to confuse rather than enlight those who might be interested.

The Saranna will work as well or better than almost anything out there in any situation.

That is only partially true. Your exceptional speakers are a rare variety that could actually handle the LFE channel and allow for crossover of smaller speakers. In other words they could fully utilize the options offered by bass management. That puts them in a different class.

I would say that the vast majority of members here use at least one sub and a lot more than one. To hear some members here, you would think the sub was the most important speaker in the room!

 

[haraldo]

I think this speaker is a blast, sorry I can´t come and audition this weekend

Congrats Torbjørn

 

[TLS Guy]

I feel like you are constructing a problem here. 90% (maybe more) of large floorstanding speakers are still passive, and no one is complaining that they don't have a subwoofer input. I would prefer not to continue down this topic as it likely to confuse rather than enlight those who might be interested.

The Saranna will work as well or better than almost anything out there in any situation.

That is true, but you can't feed the sub output to passive speakers generally though. Even if you could it would destroy most, and they can't even get down to sub range. So, active speakers give you options you can not harness with passive speakers. Your active approach is the way to go. I just think you need to harness as many of the advantages of the active approach as possible, and there are many. I certainly have, and it sets the rig apart.

Basically passive speakers need to go. Having 13 or more power amps in one case as well as everything else is just totally absurd and lousy engineering. From now on power amps belong in speakers.

 

[haraldo]

I honestly thought this was a thread about a new speaker design .... I think you guys are totally derailing this
There is no issues running these speakers with a sub if you want ......just use the right gear, like a Trinnov pre....

I think IMHO this thread is going absolutely ridiculous, and showing disrespect to a very clever speaker designer

Well dona and congrats @Sigberg Audio

I reckon there will be lots of first hand comments this weekend in the Norwegian forums as Saranna is previewed this weekend, sorry I can´t join the Oslo hi-fi- fair , it would have been cool

 

[TLS Guy]

I honestly thought this was a thread about a new speaker design .... I think you guys are totally derailing this
There is no issues running these speakers with a sub if you want ......just use the right gear, like a Trinnov pre....

I think IMHO this thread is going absolutely ridiculous, and showing disrespect to a very clever speaker designer

Well dona and congrats @Sigberg Audio

I reckon there will be lots of first hand comments this weekend in the Norwegian forums as Saranna is previewed this weekend, sorry I can´t join the Oslo hi-fi- fair , it would have been cool

I don't think you have grasped the point. No one is disputing the excellence of these speakers. The point is to increase their applicability and therefore increase application and market penetration.

I consider myself a pioneer of active speakers. I designed my first active speakers for commercial application in 1974. I designed my first active speakers for my home in 1976. So, I have a long track record of experience.

I want to see these speakers succeed and I am not denigrating them in any way, just trying to increase their applicability.

I actually think full range speakers are optimum. I do not believe the current wisdom of peppering subs about the place is correct, or in any way optimum. My research shows severe disturbance of timing and phase coherent impulse response with even small changes of position. In other words moving subs about all over the place condemns you to the dreaded sweet spot. I maintain that only a truly integrated design can truly achieve a wide and uniform listening area. I have data to how that is so.

Therefore a truly integrated design like the speaker we are talking about has a lot to offer. All I am suggesting is ways to increase the acceptance and applicability of these speakers.

 

[haraldo]

I don't think you have grasped the point. No one is disputing the excellence of these speakers. The point is to increase their applicability and therefore increase application and market penetration.

I consider myself a pioneer of active speakers. I designed my first active speakers for commercial application in 1974. I designed my first active speakers for my home in 1976. So, I have a long track record of experience.

I want to see these speakers succeed and I am not denigrating them in any way, just trying to increase their applicability.

I actually think full range speakers are optimum. I do not believe the current wisdom of peppering subs about the place is correct, or in any way optimum. My research shows severe disturbance of timing and phase coherent impulse response with even small changes of position. In other words moving subs about all over the place condemns you to the dreaded sweet spot. I maintain that only a truly integrated design can truly achieve a wide and uniform listening area. I have data to how that is so.

Therefore a truly integrated design like the speaker we are talking about has a lot to offer. All I am suggesting is ways to increase the acceptance and applicability of these speakers.

So why are you only discussing subwoofers in a thread about a new set og speakers ?
Your logic beats me ......

= IMHO. you are completely off-topic here and brings the thread into havoc!
Looks like you are more interested here into showing how good you are rather than discussing the speaker at hand!

 

[TLS Guy]

So why are you only discussing subwoofers in a thread about a new set og speakers ?
Your logic beats me ......

= IMHO. you are completely off-topic here and brings the thread into havoc!
Looks like you are more interested here into showing how good you are rather than discussing the speaker at hand!

You still are missing the point.

These speakers do not need a sub.

The point is to allow them to receive the sub output under all circumstances. These are speakers that potentially do not need a sub, but they need to be able to integrate the sub outputs.

This is a feature I included in my design from the beginning of the design. You won't find a sub in my AV room as it does not need one and is way better on account of that fact. It is a truly integrated design from 20 Hz to 20 KHz and that has huge advantages. These speakers could easily do the same. Current wisdom is WRONG!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You still are missing the point.

The point SHOULD be that there is more than ONE WAY to set up any system.

There is a speaker and a system for everyone.

Whatever works best for people is the CORRECT wisdom.

Do not try to convince people that YOUR way is the ONLY correct or best way.

 

[TLS Guy]

The point SHOULD be that there is more than ONE WAY to set up any system.

There is a speaker and a system for everyone.

Whatever works best for people is the CORRECT wisdom.

Do not try to convince people that YOUR way is the ONLY correct or best way.

That way there is no progress, just stultification. Your way is not the road to progress.