Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Mr._Clark]

Hopefully this isn't too far off topic for this thread.

Trump:

>>>Millions of illegal aliens have stormed across our borders, it is an invasion, like a military invasion. Our rights and liberties are being torn to shreds. Your country is being turned into a third-world hellhole, run by censors, perverts criminals and thugs.<<<

Donald Trump brands US a ‘third-world hellhole’ run by ‘perverts’ and ‘thugs’

Former president claimed American dream ‘dead’ under Joe Biden during Turning Point Action Conference speech

www.yahoo.com

Reagan:

>>>I've spoken of the shining city . . . in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.<<<

Farewell Address to the Nation

011189i

www.reaganlibrary.gov

 

[GO-NAD!]

Don't know if anyone has been paying attention to the current Ukrainian incursion into Russian territory. This looks like a pretty thorough sitrep. If it works out, it will go down in history as a brilliant strategy.

Thread by @TrentTelenko on Thread Reader App

@TrentTelenko: The Armed Forces of Ukraine have launched a up to 25K, or small NATO Corps sized, incursion into the Kursk Oblast that is moving between 7 & 10 km a day. AFU Bde have between...

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Trell]

Don't know if anyone has been paying attention to the current Ukrainian incursion into Russian territory. This looks like a pretty thorough sitrep. If it works out, it will go down in history as a brilliant strategy.

Thread by @TrentTelenko on Thread Reader App

@TrentTelenko: The Armed Forces of Ukraine have launched a up to 25K, or small NATO Corps sized, incursion into the Kursk Oblast that is moving between 7 & 10 km a day. AFU Bde have between...

threadreaderapp.com

Yup, I’ve seen that for a few days.

An important part of this is that USA have no (public) issues with US made armored vehicles used inside Russia in what is a major campaign.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Russian sources say Ukraine has hit all three bridges over the Seym River | CBC News

"As a result of targeted shelling with the use of rocket and artillery weapons against residential buildings and civilian infrastructure in the Karyzh village ... a third bridge over the Seym River was damaged," the unnamed representative for Russia's Investigative Committee said in a video published on the Telegram channel of Russian state TV anchor Vladimir Solovyov.

So, the Ukrainians were targeting civilians and accidentally hit a bridge instead.

Riiiiight.

 

[Trell]

Russian sources say Ukraine has hit all three bridges over the Seym River | CBC News




So, the Ukrainians were targeting civilians and accidentally hit a bridge instead.

Riiiiight.

CBS should be ashamed of this shoddy “journalism”.

 

[GO-NAD!]

CBS should be ashamed of this shoddy “journalism”.

This is from the CBC and they make it pretty clear that they are quoting the Russian representative. I don't get the sense that they are endorsing the statement, or even accepting it as truthful. I posted a clip from the article to illustrate how desperately non-sensical Russian state representatives and their cheerleaders can be.

 

[Trell]

This is from the CBC and they make it pretty clear that they are quoting the Russian representative. I don't get the sense that they are endorsing the statement, or even accepting it as truthful. I posted a clip from the article to illustrate how desperately non-sensical Russian state representatives and their cheerleaders can be.

CBC, not CBS as I wrote, should not let that type of propaganda pass without some comment. The very many Russian atrocities are well known and documented, and committing atrocities and war crimes are part of their strategy. You could even see that in Syria. Ukraine has not done the same even though there have incidents.

So I think that CBC should be ashamed.

Related to war crimes: Ukrainian Parliament has ratified the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and its amendments.

Ukraine's parliament ratifies Rome Statute

The Verkhovna Rada has adopted a law ratifying the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and its amendments. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

 

[GO-NAD!]

CBC, not CBS as I wrote, should not let that type of propaganda pass without some comment. The very many Russian atrocities are well known and documented, and committing atrocities and war crimes are part of their strategy. You could even see that in Syria. Ukraine has not done the same even though there have incidents.

So I think that CBC should be ashamed.

Related to war crimes: Ukrainian Parliament has ratified the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and its amendments.

Ukraine's parliament ratifies Rome Statute

The Verkhovna Rada has adopted a law ratifying the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and its amendments. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're overreacting. The article originates from the Associated Press and carried on the CBC. Neither is given to carrying water for the Russians.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Russian sources say Ukraine has hit all three bridges over the Seym River | CBC News




So, the Ukrainians were targeting civilians and accidentally hit a bridge instead.

Riiiiight.

Agree.
Is there historical behavior by Ukraine doing this kind of shelling unlike Russia doing it from day one?
Normal from the source, lies.

 

[Trell]

Agree.
Is there historical behavior by Ukraine doing this kind of shelling unlike Russia doing it from day one?
Normal from the source, lies.

Not any evidence at all that Ukraine is doing this, except perhaps for isolated incidences. Russia, on the other hand, has a long and documented history of doing just this as a strategy.

This is not by any long-shot some kind of "he said - she said" story that news outlets should just parrot without comment.

 

[Trell]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're overreacting. The article originates from the Associated Press and carried on the CBC. Neither is given to carrying water for the Russians.

My overreacting? That has never happened!

 

[Trell]

 

[David_Alexander]

When I first heard that Russia had invaded Ukraine, I was taken back to my time at University back in the mid '90s.

Back in the day a DJ called John Peel (BBC) championed all forms of music. And we had in our student digs an album by a band called The Ukranians. You tube link there. We used to send students who left out house off with playing this album and accompanying the play with percussion on pots and pans.

No pot or pan in that household has ever sat level on a hob to this day.

So. Come the day of the invasion, I played that live album. I knew then, in my core, that Putin has bitten off more than he could chew.

I defy anyone to listen to that album and not be taken with the spirit of it.

The Ukrainians was an offshoot of the '80s band The Wedding Present.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Lavrov sure is full of himself.

>>>"MOSCOW, Aug 27 (Reuters) - Russia said the West was playing with fire by considering allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia with Western missiles and cautioned the United States on Tuesday that World War Three would not be confined to Europe. . . .

We are now confirming once again that playing with fire - and they are like small children playing with matches - is a very dangerous thing for grown-up uncles and aunts who are entrusted with nuclear weapons in one or another Western country," Lavrov told reporters in Moscow.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-warns-united-states-risks-world-war-three-2024-08-27/

Translation: "We [Russia] can invade anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason, and if other countries intervene in a manner that is not to our liking, WW Three and nukes will be used!"

Me: All the more reason to stop these idiots now.

He's worked up because he knows it would cause major problems for Russia if Ukraine were to be allowed to use long range weapons to hit Russian military targets further behind the front lines:

>>>The redeployment of Russian air assets from Russian air bases in range of ATACMS does not remove the utility of using ATACMS against other Russian military targets, however. ISW assesses that there are at least 250 military and paramilitary objects in Russia within range of ATACMS missiles that the United States has provided Ukraine. The United States currently prohibits Ukrainian forces from using ATACMS missiles to strike military targets in Russia, however, and only allows strikes using US-provided HIMARS equipped with GMLRS — at maximum permitting Ukraine to strike only 20 out of the 250 objects it could strike with ATACMS. Only 17 of these 250 objects are airfields, and it is unlikely that the Russian military has redeployed assets away from all the other 233 objects to the same degree as it has reportedly done with aviation assets.<<<

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

Given that Russia has had great difficulty in Ukraine even with the restrictions on use of longer range U.S. weapons, what exactly does Putin think would happen if the entire NATO alliance were to be brought into the war?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Given that Russia has had great difficulty in Ukraine even with the restrictions on use of longer range U.S. weapons, what exactly does Putin think would happen if the entire NATO alliance were to be brought into the war?

That alone boggles my mind how stupid their threats are.
Do they think they would survive a nuclear exchange?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Lavrov sure is full of himself.

>>>"MOSCOW, Aug 27 (Reuters) - Russia said the West was playing with fire by considering allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia with Western missiles and cautioned the United States on Tuesday that World War Three would not be confined to Europe. . . .

We are now confirming once again that playing with fire - and they are like small children playing with matches - is a very dangerous thing for grown-up uncles and aunts who are entrusted with nuclear weapons in one or another Western country," Lavrov told reporters in Moscow.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-warns-united-states-risks-world-war-three-2024-08-27/

Translation: "We [Russia] can invade anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason, and if other countries intervene in a manner that is not to our liking, WW Three and nukes will be used!"

Me: All the more reason to stop these idiots now.

He's worked up because he knows it would cause major problems for Russia if Ukraine were to be allowed to use long range weapons to hit Russian military targets further behind the front lines:

>>>The redeployment of Russian air assets from Russian air bases in range of ATACMS does not remove the utility of using ATACMS against other Russian military targets, however. ISW assesses that there are at least 250 military and paramilitary objects in Russia within range of ATACMS missiles that the United States has provided Ukraine. The United States currently prohibits Ukrainian forces from using ATACMS missiles to strike military targets in Russia, however, and only allows strikes using US-provided HIMARS equipped with GMLRS — at maximum permitting Ukraine to strike only 20 out of the 250 objects it could strike with ATACMS. Only 17 of these 250 objects are airfields, and it is unlikely that the Russian military has redeployed assets away from all the other 233 objects to the same degree as it has reportedly done with aviation assets.<<<

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

Given that Russia has had great difficulty in Ukraine even with the restrictions on use of longer range U.S. weapons, what exactly does Putin think would happen if the entire NATO alliance were to be brought into the war?

It's a clear sign of the Russians' relative weakness when they have to resort to nuclear threats. Just a larger North Korea.

Meanwhile, regarding the missile issue...
Ukraine touts threat of new long-range 'Palianytsia' weapon in war with Russia | CBC News

 

[Mr._Clark]

It's a clear sign of the Russians' relative weakness when they have to resort to nuclear threats. Just a larger North Korea.

Meanwhile, regarding the missile issue...
Ukraine touts threat of new long-range 'Palianytsia' weapon in war with Russia | CBC News

I've seen a few reports about the Palianytsia weapon but it's unclear exactly what it is. From the link you posted:

>>>"This is not an extension of an old Soviet project," said the specialist, speaking on condition of anonymity to safeguard the project's secrecy. The missile has a solid-fuel booster that accelerates it, followed by a jet engine, the specialist said.<<<

That's about as much detail as I've seen.

There have also been recent reports about a new Ukrainian ballistic missile:

>>>Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says that his country has conducted the first successful test of a new domestically-developed ballistic missile. Ukraine is known to have at least one short-range ballistic missile (SRBM), the Hrim-2, in some stage of development, as The War Zone previously explored in detail. Such a weapon would give Ukraine’s armed forces a highly valuable new stand-off strike option unlike any other in its inventory. It would also not be subject to any foreign restrictions on its use, as it continues to be the case with many longer-ranged weapons supplied by the United States and other Western partners.<<<

https://www.twz.com/air/ukraine-says-it-has-tested-a-new-domestically-designed-ballistic-missile

I'm somewhat skeptical of the ballistic missile developments because there have been numerous prior reports of Ukrainian ballistic missiles being developed but there seems to be very little direct evidence that any of these are operational or near to being operational.

There's no doubt that Ukraine needs a way to hit Russian ground forces at increased distance and also hit the airfields that are being used to launch aircraft carrying glide bombs.

>>>In recent months, Russia has used the bombs to devastating effect, tilting the balance of fighting in eastern Ukraine in Moscow’s favor and allowing Russia to continue to make steady gains in Donetsk region. The bombs have also allowed Russian forces to raze whole towns and villages with ever greater speed.<<<

In Eastern Ukraine, Terrifying Bombardment and Near Total Destruction

Powerful guided “glide bombs” have helped Russia raze entire towns with ever greater speed. “When you drive into a ruined town, it’s like hopelessness,” one soldier said.

www.nytimes.com

As I understand it, Russia has not been using glide bombs against Ukrainian troops in Russian territory. I suspect this is because the Russian military does not want to destroy it's own towns and villages. Perhaps Ukraine realized Russia would be reluctant to use glide bombs inside Russia, and decided to invade Russia in part because of this.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Lavrov sure is full of himself.

>>>"MOSCOW, Aug 27 (Reuters) - Russia said the West was playing with fire by considering allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia with Western missiles and cautioned the United States on Tuesday that World War Three would not be confined to Europe. <<<

Translation: "We [Russia] can invade anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason, and if other countries intervene in a manner that is not to our liking, WW Three and nukes will be used!"

Me: All the more reason to stop these idiots now.

He's worked up because he knows it would cause major problems for Russia if Ukraine were to be allowed to use long range weapons to hit Russian military targets further behind the front lines:

Institute for the Study of War

This page collects ISW and CTP's updates on the conflict in Ukraine. In late February 2022, ISW began publishing daily synthetic products covering key events related to renewed Russian aggression against Ukraine.

www.understandingwar.org

The US is reportedly close to sending long range missiles:

>>>WASHINGTON, Sept 3 (Reuters) - The U.S. is close to an agreement to give Ukraine long-range cruise missiles that could reach deep into Russia, but Kyiv would need to wait several months as the U.S. works through technical issues ahead of any shipment, U.S. officials said. . . .

Sending JASSMs to Ukraine could significantly alter the strategic landscape of the conflict by putting more of Russia in range of powerful, precision-guided munitions, an important concern of the Biden administration, the officials said.
Military analysts have suggested the introduction of JASSMs - which are stealthy and can strike further than most other missiles in Ukraine's current inventory - could push Russian staging areas and supply depots back by hundreds of miles.

This would severely complicate Russia's ability to sustain its offensive operations and potentially provide Ukraine with a strategic advantage.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-close-agreeing-long-range-missiles-ukraine-delivery-take-months-2024-09-03/

Here's a map from the article:

It appears to me that the Russian airbases being used to launch planes carrying glide bombs are the primary target.

 

[Trell]

The US is reportedly close to sending long range missiles:

>>>WASHINGTON, Sept 3 (Reuters) - The U.S. is close to an agreement to give Ukraine long-range cruise missiles that could reach deep into Russia, but Kyiv would need to wait several months as the U.S. works through technical issues ahead of any shipment, U.S. officials said. . . .

Sending JASSMs to Ukraine could significantly alter the strategic landscape of the conflict by putting more of Russia in range of powerful, precision-guided munitions, an important concern of the Biden administration, the officials said.
Military analysts have suggested the introduction of JASSMs - which are stealthy and can strike further than most other missiles in Ukraine's current inventory - could push Russian staging areas and supply depots back by hundreds of miles.

This would severely complicate Russia's ability to sustain its offensive operations and potentially provide Ukraine with a strategic advantage.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-close-agreeing-long-range-missiles-ukraine-delivery-take-months-2024-09-03/

Here's a map from the article:

View attachment 69222

It appears to me that the Russian airbases being used to launch planes carrying glide bombs are the primary target.

It's unclear what the "technical issues" are that would take months to solve as Ukraine have the F-16 already.

 

[Trell]

The Russians are attacking, on a daily basis like hospitals, schools, playgrounds, living areas that are purely civilian and very, very far from the front. Even high precision ballistic missiles are used so this is explicitly targeted and a war crime. All the Western restrictions on Ukrainian use of our weapons should be lifted, and some countries have. When will USA follow?

In the following clip CNN three Ukrainian soldiers tries to surrender and are murdered: