Onkyo TX-NR6100 vs Pioneer Elite VSX-LX105

[Mike Up]

I can get both of these for the same price. I previously had an Onkyo TX-NR6050 that I hated in everyway, sound quality was bad, functionality was bad, as feature layouts.

I'm hoping these above 2 receivers don't share the shortcomings of the 6050 but while Onkyo support told me the 6050 was not closely the same as the 6100, most forum threads share they are with the exclusion of the THX.

The reason I'm considering the replacement for my Denon AVR-S960H is that it needs repair after 1-1/2 years and I'm disappointed it's not going to Denon but a distant, state away, repair shop.

Thought about the Yamaha RX-V6A and RX-A2A but these aren't compatible with 8K60p uncompressed, like Onkyo, Pioneer, and Denon are.

The Pioneer Elite 105 looks like a model similar to the Onkyo RX line, above the NR line, but the Onkyo will match my Onkyo 6 CD player and like keeping things similar. I also don't like Pioneer Elite's Input select button because they ran out of input buttons on the remote to use their 3 preset buttons.

PIoneer Elite looks superior with longer 3 year warranty but Onkyo looks like a better match for usability. Just hoping both aren't as bad as the awful 6050.

What's the better receiver, 6100 or 105?

Thanks

 

[isolar8001]

I can get both of these for the same price. I previously had an Onkyo TX-NR6050 that I hated in everyway, sound quality was bad, functionality was bad, as feature layouts.

I'm hoping these above 2 receivers don't share the shortcomings of the 6050 but while Onkyo support told me the 6050 was not closely the same as the 6100, most forum threads share they are with the exclusion of the THX.

The reason I'm considering the replacement for my Denon AVR-S960H is that it needs repair after 1-1/2 years and I'm disappointed it's not going to Denon but a distant, state away, repair shop.

Thought about the Yamaha RX-V6A and RX-A2A but these aren't compatible with 8K60p uncompressed, like Onkyo, Pioneer, and Denon are.

The Pioneer Elite 105 looks like a model similar to the Onkyo RX line, above the NR line, but the Onkyo will match my Onkyo 6 CD player and like keeping things similar. I also don't like Pioneer Elite's Input select button because they ran out of input buttons on the remote to use their 3 preset buttons.

PIoneer Elite looks superior with longer 3 year warranty but Onkyo looks like a better match for usability. Just hoping both aren't as bad as the awful 6050.

What's the better receiver, 6100 or 105?

Thanks

Thats easy...the Pioneer.
(and you are totally wrong about the remote...look closely at it)
Having a quick sub level adjustment is very useful also.

 

[Trebdp83]

They are slightly different remote controllers and some will prefer one over the other. In both cases, the playback buttons are too small.

The Onkyo TX-NR6050 was originally sold as a Costco exclusive with a few tweaks from the TX-NR6100 and a lower price. Save for the lack of THX and a claimed 90w ch vs 100w ch, they are the same in every way.

 

[Mike Up]

The input select button cycles through the Phono, CD, Aux, USB, HDMI5, and HDMI 6 inputs on the Pioneer.

The Onkyo doesn't have presets 1, 2, and 3 and uses dedicated buttons for all the inputs.

Why do you recommend the Pioneer? Does it offer something significant over the Onkyo other than 1 year longer warranty, separate power cable, IR in, 12v trigger and RS232? It does lose THX that the Onkyo has.

Thanks.

 

[Mike Up]

Well I bought the Onkyo TX-NR6100. It was under $500 from an authorized retailer plus has a 60 day return policy if I decide to return it.

With price and return policy, hard to pass on this.

 

[Trebdp83]

Good deal. There may be a few settings differences in the menus and of course the THX settings which include the ability to select Absolute or Relative volume level display. The Dolby 5.1 surround signal to surround back speakers behavior will still be present.

 

[Mike Up]

I have my Onkyo TX-NR6100 all setup and calibrated.

To get the 2 main issues brought up, yes the receiver routes the DD signals to the wrong speakers just as my previous TX-NR6050 did. With a 7.1 speaker setup, using a 5.1 DD/DD+ signal, the side surround channels get routed to the wrong back surround speakers just like the TX-NR6050 did. I usually use 7.1 Dolby Surround processing so this shouldn't affect me most of the time except when I listen to Music Concert DD5.1 DVDs.

As far as the Subwoofer output, this is normal and sounds good! The TX-NR6050 must just have inferior electronics or subwoofer processing. The subwoofer out in the 6100 sounds strong and clean. However the 6100 subwoofer output must have a higher output voltage than my 2 Denon receivers. Both Denon receivers had the left/right level at 0 db and the subwoofer at -4db. The Onkyo has the left/right level at 0 db and the subwoofer level at -11 db. The actual subwoofer volume control on the subwoofer has never changed from the Denon to the Onkyo.

The Onkyo does have a lot of advantages over the Denon AVR-S960H. The net radio and apps are excellent to the Denon's poor offerings. Denon has to use HEOS which just sucks. It's very limited in using Tidal and the such and you really need to use the TV display. The Onkyo TX-NR6100 is awesome. I have full functionality of Tidal just as I do on my Chromecast and Android app. Plus with the TX-NR6100, I don't need the TV, I can see everything large and clearly on the Onkyo's front display.

Also with Onkyo, I can setup another pair of speakers on the separate dedicated speaker Zone 2 output connections while still having my full 7.1 speakers connected on their dedicated speaker connections.

Now that this receiver has excellent audio quality for music, unlike the TX-NR6050 I had earlier and returned, I may keep this as my main receiver over the Denon when it comes back.

Plus this receiver has has 3 8K/60p uncompressed HDMI inputs opposed to the Denon's 1 input.

I'm really impressed with the music apps that built right into the Onkyo without having to use a 3rd party app like Heos, Apple, Chromecast, or any other app. Now with the Onkyo you still can, but the music apps are also built directly into the receiver.

The built in native music apps makes me want this over the Denon just for this one, but big, feature.

Also HDMI control works good with my Hisense TV where the Denon's HDMI control worked poorly with the Hisense TV where I needed to turn it off.

 

[Trebdp83]

It's nothing to look at, but the Tidal app sounds great in the Onkyos. I've always liked the fact that it is built into the unit along with a few other services.

 

[Mike Up]

Some disappointments, the built in music apps are 16 bit 44.1khz only, no hi res.

Then the built in music server apps Chromecast and DTS Play Fi, will not play Tidal in Hi Res even using Critical Listening Mode on DTS play Fi. Its advertised to play hi res audio which it can't.

Then on top of that big disappoitment, the Chromecast and DTS Play Fi server apps can only play in Stereo or Multichannel Stereo, no surround sound or Direct or Pure. Huge disappointment on that.

Since the music apps were what was keeping me with the Onkyo, I may return it over that, the really bad Onkyo support I've experienced, and once again the weird DD5.1 surround channels being played out of the back surround speakers. Also this receiver, unlike Denon and Yamaha similar power/price receivers, onky has HDMI 2.0b on HDMI inputs 4 - 6. Denon and Yamaha use HDMI 2.1 even if those other 3 HDMI Inputs arent 8K compatible. Since Onkyo uses HDMI 2.0b, inputs 4 - 6 aren't compatible with HDR10+ and only is reference in the marketing sheet, not even the poorly written online manual. For that matter the Manual states that HDMI inputs 1 - 3 are not compatible with 8K60p uncompressed and must use DSC video compression unlike the Denon this was suppose to replace. Onkyo states this is the latest manual so they downgraded the 8K60p uncompressed capability it had over a year ago. Maybe through an update?

So this Onkyo is being returned and either I'll go back to my Denon AVR-S960h or upgrade to the Denon AVR-X2800h. I did order the 2800h already on special for 43% off of MSRP.

I really wanted the Onkyo to work out for the great price it was.

Also, you can not use THX surround modes on Dolby Atmos which is what most of my collection is, weird as you can use THX on DD+ 7.1. Another disappointment with this receiver.

 

[Trebdp83]

Check your service tier for streaming. The DTS Play-Fi app does in fact support hi-res. Though, only Stereo and All Channel Stereo are available there. I’ve got all of that info and more in another thread.

Some services do NOT even support lossless on the built-in apps. Amazon Music Unlimited Ultra HD is NOT supported in the built-in app and it is ACC. Tidal built-in app supports up to 24/48 and sounds fantastic. Chromecast is limited to 24/96 for everything.

We’ve discussed the HDMI port issues in other threads. The 6100/6050 have three HDMI 2.1 40Gbps ports and three HDMI 2.0B 18Gbps ports. NOBODY offers 48Gbps on ANY receiver and NONE of them can do 8K @60Hz/4K @120Hz fully featured.

You will find disappointment with EVERY receiver on the market as NONE of them do it all. Stretch the budget for a currently on sale Denon AVR-X3800H and you may find it the least disappointing of the bunch so far.

I read lots of manuals and pester manufacturers for a reason. I don’t like returning items unless they are defective. If I know what I am getting and it is in good working order, I usually keep it.

Onkyo DTS Play-Fi app:

Onkyo TX-NR6050 built-in Tidal app:

 

[Trebdp83]

As a follow up, while Onkyo supports Chromecast, Denon and Yamaha do NOT support Chromecast or have built-in streaming apps and have to use the HEOS app and the MusicCast app respectively. All support Airplay 2 but it is limited to lossless 16/44.1 on most devices. Apple just added Dolby Atmos to Airplay 2 BUT it currently only works to certain Apple devices from certain other Apple devices.

 

[Mike Up]

I returned the TX-NR6100 and now have a Denon AVR-X2800H.

 

[lovinthehd]

I returned the TX-NR6100 and now have a Denon AVR-X2800H.

Curious, why the 2800 instead of 3800?

 

[Mike Up]

Curious, why the 2800 instead of 3800?

Mainly, the price. It was around $500 more.

Second, I didn't need or want to buy 9.1 channel output since I don't have the room for additional speakers and trying to make the room would be a big pain and may not offer much sonic benifit.

I also don't ever plan to use separate power amps so I don't need the Preamp outputs.

I also don't use room correction so I didn't want to pay the higher price for licensing with it.

I just bought the AVR-S960h in late 2022. So I wasn't to happy I had to send it for repair. I bought the Onkyo mainly because I was disappointed in Denon, and if truth be known, felt I had bought an 'inferior', cheaper series Denon product next to my upper end Denon models I have, the AVR-2312ci and AVR-3803. The X model line is the equivalent to those even if both are more powerful than the X2800H.

The AVR-X2800H fit the bill. It had everything I wanted and needed but I would had never bought it for it's MSRP of $1199. I recently bought it for $679 from an authorized dealer new. This is the price it should be if you take away all the mark ups from the pandemic. In fact I bought the AVR-S960 for a discount price of $600 back in 2022 when the new 2022 model line came out. That was still a high pandemic price.

One thing that baffles me about the Denon AVR-S960h and most of the receiver in that 2020 model line is that there is only "1" global configuration setting for all of the video inputs together for 4K standard, 4K enhanced or 8K enhanced. The AVR-X2800h has that setting configurable for each video input now. This makes sense since Onkyo and Yamaha have it configurable for each video input. If one video input required 4K standard and another required 8K enhanced, it seems I would need to keep changing that global setting every time I switched video inputs. Maybe a large negative for that 2020 model line with the AVR-S*60h and AVR-X*700h models??

 

[Mike Up]

Wow, just realized my Denon AVR-S960h wasn't the fault of the problem.

Well it turned out to be my kid's Nintendo Switch dock causing this problem, only when the Nintendo is in it's Dock and charging, it makes a very loud static pop when the receiver is turned on. I made a lot of hassle for myself by not isolating this as well as I thought.

Learned a lot with these new receivers but the X2800h looks like a keeper.

 

[TLS Guy]

As a follow up, while Onkyo supports Chromecast, Denon and Yamaha do NOT support Chromecast or have built-in streaming apps and have to use the HEOS app and the MusicCast app respectively. All support Airplay 2 but it is limited to lossless 16/44.1 on most devices. Apple just added Dolby Atmos to Airplay 2 BUT it currently only works to certain Apple devices from certain other Apple devices.

You don't need more than 16/44.1. Going higher is just hogging Internet bandwidth for no purpose.

 

[Trebdp83]

I know it. We all know it. If a service streams in high res, many want it to stay that way from beginning to end. It’s not worth hijacking yet another thread. @Mike Up is happy with the new X2800H. That’s all that matters here.

 

[Mike Up]

As a follow up, while Onkyo supports Chromecast, Denon and Yamaha do NOT support Chromecast or have built-in streaming apps and have to use the HEOS app and the MusicCast app respectively. All support Airplay 2 but it is limited to lossless 16/44.1 on most devices. Apple just added Dolby Atmos to Airplay 2 BUT it currently only works to certain Apple devices from certain other Apple devices.

The Built in App and DTS Play Fi would only play Tidal 44.Khz/16 bit audio even when I was playing FLAC Master Files for the same Songs on my phone. I even had DTS Play Fi set to Critical listening.

Regardless, Onkyo's support was even worse now than back in 2022 when I had the TX-NR6050. Support Reps and even their engineers seem confused according to my emails. On top of that, using the supplied Onkyo links for manuals for the built in music apps and servers, went to dead pages. So no manuals on how to use anything. You have to figure it out for yourself.

Also the manual supplied by Onkyo support and engineering had inaccurate statements in it compared to the manual I had back in 2022. Onkyo support and engineering said they supplied the lastest and "Correct" manual so that told me they had downgraded the receiver's compatibility.

Only after stating they were wrong and showing them old manuals with a long and delayed response after I returned it, did they finally update their website with the correct manual. However never corrected the dead link to manual for Built in Chromecast.

Not the type of support I'm looking for in a product that will have future firmware updates.

They still had the music app quirks and DD5.1 surround steering quirk so I don't regret sending it back with this type of product support. I would had liked to keep it but I felt I had a discontinued, quirky product from a defunct company with no backing or support.

I honestly don't understand how some can buy their expensive upper end models and feel comfortable with their purchases. Even those models have the music app and DD5.1 logic steering quirks along with the questionable product support.

But each to their own, I know some people are carefree and go with the flow. More power to them.

 

[Trebdp83]

Couldn’t say why you had the Tidal hi-res issue. Even with Critical Listening ON, the Tidal streaming settings within the Play-Fi app must also be set to MAX. Setting to MAX in the Tidal app will not guarantee 24/192 playback on a given network. But, that is no longer an issue here.

Onkyo needs to work on customer support and those manuals. It wouldn’t hurt to add Tidal Connect as they support Spotify Connect since its built-in app was removed. They won’t be able to do any of it without selling units so we’ll see what happens next.

Denon/Marantz aren’t exactly on solid ground these days. But, they’ve long had better customer support, instruction manuals and don’t send DD 5.1 surround channel info to the surround back speakers when using a 7.1.X speaker configuration and a straight decode.

 

[Mike Up]

Just got a firmware update on both Denon AVR-S960H and AVR-X2800H for Tidal Connect. Sounds great and plays MAX (192khz/24 bit) on both receivers. Operates just like Casting to Chromecast from Tidal's Android App's device list.

Turns out that Tidal is changing things apparently as some of my saved albums were MAX (96khz/24 bit) but now are only High (44.1khz/16 bit). That could had been some of the problem on Onkyo.