Matching left, right and center channels!

[Paul McNeil]

My recent experience with matching centres goes along the line that I was not able to use the same tower as centre (to tall to clear a flat panel display placing), and these brands did not have any horizontal centres that would be matching in any respect. Thus, had to match based on what @PENG has described. It worked pretty well both times. Good centre speaker with similar basic characteristics (FR response, dynamics, distortion, close enough crossovers and same number of them, etc.), to the LR will generally be a good match.

For anyone with big bad towers, I do wholeheartedly recommend Revel C426 centre. That speaker is truly amazing and best centre I even had - by far. Not sure if people can get advantage of this deal (Ebay Germany), but if they can, it will be worth every penny. I am not affiliated in any way with the seller nor endorse them, but did get my speaker from them (in EU) in perfect and absolutely new condition.

Revel PerformaBe C426Be black gloss Centerlautsprecher | Neu | UVP 5000 € | eBay

Der leistungsstarke Hochtöner und der wellenleiter mit Keramik beschichtetem, Aluminiumguss-Akustikobjektiv der 5. Generation lassen sich nahtlos in die Richtwirkung des Begleit-Midrange-Treibers integrieren, was zu einer höheren Effizienz, einem verbesserten Dynamikbereich, einer reduzierten...

www.ebay.de

Oddball, do you use your C426 with or without the grill? My conundrum is that without the grill, I think the sound is better. The grill has vertical and horizontal components that, it seems to me, are major diffraction elements. But with the grills off, we get the full exposure to 4 white woofers, one white midrange and a white tweeter baffle. Sitting just below the TV, this is distracting.

 

[Trell]

I think using the descriptor 'timbre' for speakers is questionable. Sure the timbre of a guitar and a piano playing exactly the same note are different, for sure. But if your speakers can't reproduce the difference between those two well, I'd say it's a problem with speaker/system frequency response and dynamics (transient response).

Many manufacturers are voicing the speakers (away from neutral) for good or for bad, so you for could have a mismatch of 'timbre' that is noticeable.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Many manufacturers are voicing the speakers (away from neutral) for good or for bad, so you for could have a mismatch of 'timbre' that is noticeable.

Of course manufacturers, from time immemorial, are 'voicing speakers (away from neutral)', perhaps on purpose. But not, I think, Revel.

 

[Oddball]

I honestly can't tell if the sound is better or worse with or without the grill. At least to me, the difference is not audible and not showing as major issue on calibration screen either. But the white drivers are the thingy that proves that no design is perfect. I'd confidently keep the grill on and enjoy the show .

I don't really obsess over these things anymore. If I had a deep dive in the centre without other speakers on, I might notice something going on, but that is not that common (although it happens) in the movies or shows.

 

[Paul McNeil]

I honestly can't tell if the sound is better or worse with or without the grill. At least to me, the difference is not audible and not showing as major issue on calibration screen either. But the white drivers are the thingy that proves that no design is perfect. I'd confidently keep the grill on and enjoy the show .

I don't really obsess over these things anymore. If I had a deep dive in the centre without other speakers on, I might notice something going on, but that is not that common (although it happens) in the movies or shows.

Thanks for that Oddball!

 

[Oddball]

Many manufacturers are voicing the speakers (away from neutral) for good or for bad, so you for could have a mismatch of 'timbre' that is noticeable.

Some of that can be corrected with EQ, but some can’t, so careful matching is required. Probably would be better if neutral voicing was a rule, but for one reason or another, we have a free market where people do what they want.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Fully agreed, if you can do that with 5 identical towers than you probably have the best "match". If not, such as in my case there is no way I could use a tower for the center, let alone an identical tower, then again, it is possible to find a center that matches the towers enough for human hearing, based on specs and measurements. Remember the often mentioned Bob Carver succeeded on making a $700 SS amp sounded "exactly" like an expensive Tube amp based on some blind (iirc only) comparison listening? That's for amps, but the concept is the same.

Bottom line, trust science, it is audio devices, nothing like Covid lol..

The Carver Challenge Page 4 | Stereophile.com

Yep. We’ve said so many times here that audio isn’t rocket science or Covid or anything that significant or difficult.

Okay, back to my HT room watching my movies and TV series.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Yep. We’ve said so many times here that audio isn’t rocket science or Covid or anything that significant or difficult.

Okay, back to my HT room watching my movies and TV series.

Oh, it is (almost) rocket science (physics), but not Covid (biological), but it is significant and difficult. Why else would we be here?!

 

[JerryLove]

Revel is a step above Klipsch IMO too.

In this case, I find it hard to agree. Though I don't have experience with the C426Be my experience is rather broad in general and I do own a full set of KL-650-THX's and they are truly amazing HT speakers.

In his case, since he had Revel LR speakers, matching the center was the right choice and should be the improvement he's saying it is.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In this case, I find it hard to agree. Though I don't have experience with the C426Be my experience is rather broad in general and I do own a full set of KL-650-THX's and they are truly amazing HT speakers.

Yeah, the KL-650-THX-Ultra2 has got to be among the most accurate speakers I've ever seen in terms of measurements. Never seen any Revels or other brands that accurate.

"The KL-650-THX's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +1.00/–0.87 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz."

Klipsch THX Ultra2 Speaker System HT Labs Measures

HT Labs Measures: Klipsch THX Ultra2 Speaker System • KL-650-THX L/C/R Sensitivity: 92 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz • KL-525-THX Surround Sensitivity: 88 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of all woofers) frequency response of the KL-650-THX L/C/R...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Oh, it is (almost) rocket science (physics), but not Covid (biological), but it is significant and difficult. Why else would we be here?!

I'm on AH to have fun like @Tankini and many others.

Sure, audio could be a challenge to some. But I never thought audio was a challenge even when I was a noob 30 years ago.

 

[Tankini]

I'm on AH to have fun like @Tankini and many others.

Sure, audio could be a challenge to some. But I never thought audio was a challenge even when I was a noob 30 years ago.

When it comes to comparing speakers or the differences between, Amps, AVR, AVP, Integrated or separates. "Psychoacoustics is a funny thing isn't it. The right sound, is the one You like". That's a really good article that "PENG" posted up with the link. Like you @AcuDefTechGuy stated many on AH are here for fun, like you and others know what PENG stated, "Bottom line, trust science"

Edit: We've all read at one time or heard someone say, I'm looking for that "warm" sound or I find that amp sounds sterile or one of my Favorite Psychoacoustics description "House sound". That's Not fact, that's not Science backed up by facts. Speaking for myself that's just more Psychoacoustic noise.

 

[Paul McNeil]

In this case, I find it hard to agree. Though I don't have experience with the C426Be my experience is rather broad in general and I do own a full set of KL-650-THX's and they are truly amazing HT speakers.

In his case, since he had Revel LR speakers, matching the center was the right choice and should be the improvement he's saying it is.

I absolutely agree, that Klipsch THX is a great speaker. It was the matching that mattered. If I'd had three, I probably would have been very happy. The only problem with three of these big, ugly Klipsch boxes, in my case, was placement and SAF. Behind a transparent screen or built into a dedicated housing around a TV, I think they would be hard to beat for home theater. Music, I'm not so sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

In this case, I find it hard to agree. Though I don't have experience with the C426Be my experience is rather broad in general and I do own a full set of KL-650-THX's and they are truly amazing HT speakers.

In his case, since he had Revel LR speakers, matching the center was the right choice and should be the improvement he's saying it is.

Good to know, but those aren't currently offered speakers, are they?

 

[Oddball]

In this case, I find it hard to agree. Though I don't have experience with the C426Be my experience is rather broad in general and I do own a full set of KL-650-THX's and they are truly amazing HT speakers.

In his case, since he had Revel LR speakers, matching the center was the right choice and should be the improvement he's saying it is.

Klipsch are good speakers if you are looking for bookshelves and 80hz crossover, but as noted don't think current model. Revels we are comparing are bigger speakers that will reach lower and produce bigger and more dynamic sound for bigger rooms. While there is nothing wrong with having a bookshelf based HT system, it is not the same, or equally performing as having tower based HT system. However, it is also a matter of preference - some do prefer monitors to towers.

Audioholics reviews are pretty good for both, but seems like more enthusiastic for Revels.

"The C426Be center may well be one of the best performing center speakers on the market right now at any price. It looks fabulous, it is extremely accurate on and off-axis, it has good sensitivity with a reasonable electrical load, and it has an abundance of dynamic range."

Revel PerformaBe F226Be Tower & C426Be Center Loudspeakers Review

We reviewed the Revel Performa F226Be, a three-way floor-standing speaker, and the C426Be, a monster three-way center speaker using four 6.5" bass drivers to see if they live up to the brand reputation.

www.audioholics.com

Klipsch THX Ultra2 Loudspeaker System Review

For nearly six decades Klipsch Audio Technologies has held an enviably successful position in the American consumer audio industry. That sort of longevity (given the competitive, volatile nature of

www.audioholics.com

 

[JerryLove]

Klipsch are good speakers if you are looking for bookshelves and 80hz crossover, but as noted don't think current model. Revels we are comparing are bigger speakers that will reach lower and produce bigger and more dynamic sound for bigger rooms. While there is nothing wrong with having a bookshelf based HT system, it is not the same, or equally performing as having tower based HT system. However, it is also a matter of preference - some do prefer monitors to towers.

There's no audio advantage to going lower than needed for crossover to a sub; and there are some disadvantages to using main speakers for LF (the correct placement for low frequencies in a room, which have to deal with cancellation, is often different than the correct placement for high frequencies where the dominant issue is localization).

There's nothing wrong with preferences in appearance (the Klipsch are ugly as they are meant for behind-screen); I was responding specifically to one claim "Revel is a step above Klipsch IMO too.". I assumed (and perhaps this was on me), this was a statement of audio quality. Maybe it wasn't.

I don't know if Klipsch still sells these (looks like they don't); but, again, that doesn't really matter to the quote I was addressing.

 

[Oddball]

Revel PerformaBe F226Be Tower & C426Be Center Loudspeakers Review

We reviewed the Revel Performa F226Be, a three-way floor-standing speaker, and the C426Be, a monster three-way center speaker using four 6.5" bass drivers to see if they live up to the brand reputation.

www.audioholics.com

There's no audio advantage to going lower than needed for crossover to a sub; and there are some disadvantages to using main speakers for LF (the correct placement for low frequencies in a room, which have to deal with cancellation, is often different than the correct placement for high frequencies where the dominant issue is localization).

There's nothing wrong with preferences in appearance (the Klipsch are ugly as they are meant for behind-screen); I was responding specifically to one claim "Revel is a step above Klipsch IMO too.". I assumed (and perhaps this was on me), this was a statement of audio quality. Maybe it wasn't.

I don't know if Klipsch still sells these (looks like they don't); but, again, that doesn't really matter to the quote I was addressing.

Let me put it this way - Revel center is at least 3 steps above the Klipsch THX LCR.

And if you have any doubts about benefits of using towers or bigger speakers in HT setup can ask Gene for advice.

Apologies for being blunt but looks like it’s needed.

 

[JerryLove]

Revel PerformaBe F226Be Tower & C426Be Center Loudspeakers Review

We reviewed the Revel Performa F226Be, a three-way floor-standing speaker, and the C426Be, a monster three-way center speaker using four 6.5" bass drivers to see if they live up to the brand reputation.

www.audioholics.com

Let me put it this way - Revel center is at least 3 steps above the Klipsch THX LCR.

That's actually a non-sensical statement. There's no such thing as a "step in audio"

And if you have any doubts about benefits of using towers or bigger speakers in HT setup can ask Gene for advice.

I've spoken with Gene before. I've also spoken with Dr.Toole. I've also spoken with Roger Russell. The list of people I've had detailed discussion with on audio is legion.

If Gene has a disagreement with my statement, he's welcome to come here and explain his position, or not. That's entirely up to him. I honestly suspect that some of the older posters (possibly including Gene) here on AH are going to find your tone/response amusing.

Apologies for being blunt but looks like it’s needed.

You are, bluntly, unsupported and (I strongly suspect) wrong.

I welcome bluntness; but you are going to need to back up your claims if you want them to be persuasive in any way. If you can make a case on why towers offer an auditory advantage, feel free to make it. If you want someone else (Gene in this case) to make it for you; you need to talk to him about coming and doing so.

 

[Oddball]

That's actually a non-sensical statement. There's no such thing as a "step in audio"


I've spoken with Gene before. I've also spoken with Dr.Toole. I've also spoken with Roger Russell. The list of people I've had detailed discussion with on audio is legion.

If Gene has a disagreement with my statement, he's welcome to come here and explain his position, or not. That's entirely up to him. I honestly suspect that some of the older posters (possibly including Gene) here on AH are going to find your tone/response amusing.


You are, bluntly, unsupported and (I strongly suspect) wrong.

I welcome bluntness; but you are going to need to back up your claims if you want them to be persuasive in any way.

No need to back up anything on my end. My personal opinion.

But the truth is, however it might be different to acknowledge for you, that Revel C426 center runs circles around the Klipsch. Perhaps this is the right audio translation instead of “steps”.

Gene has monstrous towers so really no need to speak to Gene as actions speaks more than words. Even Revel towers are not good enough for him, but again they do run circles around the Klipsch.

You don’t have a bad speakers or system, but seems like you are not really aware of how good HT setups are and don’t really understand where your setup falls.

Again, apologies for bluntness but hopefully will do this time.

 

[JerryLove]

No need to back up anything on my end. My personal opinion.

That sums it up nicely. You are putting forth an opinion with no factual basis.

There's nothing wrong with opinions; the psychoacoustics of speakers has an inherently subjective element (though if you aren't familiar with Dr.Toole's work, which you don't appear to be, you'd be surprised how much subjective experience converges, especially to trained ears (you don't seem to have taken that training either).

But if you want to offer an opinion that's in any way interesting you need some combination of acknowledged expertise or factual support (or at least detail regarding specific advantages or differences)... and usually the former is the result of the latter.

But the truth is, however it might be different to acknowledge for you, that Revel C426 center runs circles around the Klipsch. Perhaps this is the right audio translation instead of “steps”.

Except that it doesn't. There's absolutely no data to support that and, in fact, the Klipsch measures better.

Here's the C428Be (didn't find the C426) on an anechoic measurement

Here's the in-room

And here's the Klipsch

Gene has monstrous towers

As do I. More than one pair in fact; and many dozens over the decades including such luminaries as the RS2s and 801Ds. I would really hate to imagine that you were on some post somewhere telling some bookshelf owner that I disagreed with their choice to go bookshelf based on the fact that I own monster towers. Then again, I would hate to imagine that you were attempting to speak on my behalf at all.

You don’t have a bad speakers or system, but seems like you are not really aware of how good HT setups are and don’t really understand where your setup falls.

That's hilarious. I don't think you understand how much statements like this harm your credibility with people who have been on AH long enough to know who I am.