Monoblock amplifiers

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you. In my one room I have Bowers and Wilkins 702S3 floor speakers and an Anthem Str stereo dual mono block amplifier, but I'm creating another theater room and that's where I'm considering going upscale to the monoblocks. I don't have a particular brand in mind that's why I'm researching and gaining more knowledge about these. Thanks again!

Anthem is good. Forget about the monoblock. Won’t do anything more for you.

Don’t bother passive bi-amp your passive speakers either. Won’t do anything more for you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sorry but what exactly is the difference between passive and active biamping? I know biwiring is useless, but I have enough assignable channels on my pre/pro to biamp my fronts and Center

In simple terms, your speakers are 100% passive. So you would be passively bi-amp-ing your passive speakers.

There are more involved detailed explanations. To make your speakers active bi-amp, you would need to remove the speakers internal crossover.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry but what exactly is the difference between passive and active biamping? I know biwiring is useless, but I have enough assignable channels on my pre/pro to biamp my fronts and Center

As ADTG mentioned for the most part. Biggest difference with passive bi-amping is it is more based on marketing. Some speaker manufacturers simply put the extra terminals on because certain consumers expect it. Try this article and note the conclusion https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

 

[philly]

As ADTG mentioned for the most part. Biggest difference with passive bi-amping is it is more based on marketing. Some speaker manufacturers simply put the extra terminals on because certain consumers expect it. Try this article and note the conclusion https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

I enjoyed the article thanks! Helps bring some needed clarity.

 

[Golfx]

Regarding dual mono block designed amps. I have order this one from apollon https://apollonaudio.com/product/purifi-1et9040ba-eigentakt-dual-mono-premium-amplifier-apollon-pet1200-dm/

It presents all the internal quality of two separate monoblocks but puts them in a single case. I chose the dual mono strictly because it would fit in my open rack whereas the two monos would be too wide side by side.

Others buyers into really “stretched” audiophile logic use separate mono blocks to sit on top of each driven speaker to reduce “unnecessary resistance” derived from longer speaker wires. Using instead longer XLR interconnects. I am sure some instrument could measure that but not my ears.

 

[philly]

Regarding dual mono block designed amps. I have order this one from apollon https://apollonaudio.com/product/purifi-1et9040ba-eigentakt-dual-mono-premium-amplifier-apollon-pet1200-dm/

It presents all the internal quality of two separate monoblocks but puts them in a single case. I chose the dual mono stricking because it would fit in my open rack whereas the two monos would be too wide side by side.

Others buyers into really “stretched” audiophile logic use separate mono blocks to sit on top of each driven speaker to reduce “unnecessary resistance” derived from longer speaker wires. Using instead longer XLR interconnects. I am sure some instrument could measure that but not my ears.

Thanks! I'll look into that brand, however isn't my Anthem STR amp design basically the same thing, 2 Mono amps and one chassis?

My runs are short, only about 3 ft to the left speaker and five to the right, and I also use XLR cables

 

[Golfx]

Thanks! I'll look into that brand, however isn't my Anthem STR amp design basically the same thing, 2 Mono amps and one chassis?

My runs are short, only about 3 ft to the left speaker and five to the right, and I also use XLR cables

Sounds like they are the same thought process except yours are likely Class AB.

Apollon, March, Nord, Buckeye (in order of perceived build quality) are all Class D amps.

below presents a discussion of Class D by one of our more learned members.

Class D power amplifiers

Last time I shopped for the most transparent speakers I could find in the below $10,000 range I found them in a store in Toronto that powered the speakers with, surprisingly, class D amplifiers. In the end I bought the speakers without requesting them to try driving the speakers with my kind of...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[philly]

Sounds like they are the same thought process except yours are likely Class AB.

Apollon, March, Nord, Buckeye (in order of perceived build quality) are all Class D amps.

below presents a discussion of Class D by one of our more learned members.

Class D power amplifiers

Last time I shopped for the most transparent speakers I could find in the below $10,000 range I found them in a store in Toronto that powered the speakers with, surprisingly, class D amplifiers. In the end I bought the speakers without requesting them to try driving the speakers with my kind of...

forums.audioholics.com

I'll be sure and read through it. you guys are awesome and Geniuses LOL!! I use 12 gauge speaker wire from QED, XLR cables from blue jeans and audioquest. Thinking about getting the Kimber cable 8TC Gene recommends, but a little too pricey for me right now.

Another question I'm sure you guys know about... I just use generic settings for my Crossover at 80hz and my LFE at 120hz. is that adequate or should I play around and experiment with other settings?

 

[Eppie]

I believe the main difference with a dual monoblock is that it is has a shared power supply. The transformers and capacitors get quite large with these beefy supplies, so most of the volume is taken up by the power supply in the center and beyond that the amplifiers do not share any components. You have two totally separate amps but they both feed off of the one supply. With monoblocks you obviously need a separate power supply for each unit.

Any competent engineer can design an adequate power supply, so there is no measurable benefit that I can think of until you get into the really high powered amps. You can eventually get to a point where the current requirements of the equipment begin to exceed the 15 amp or 20 amp rating on residential circuits and you need to start running multiple circuits to the AV room to supply enough current. Some of of the D'Agostino amps can use up to 6kW! That's exotic equipment that no one here uses to my knowledge.

 

[Eppie]

I'll be sure and read through it. you guys are awesome and Geniuses LOL!! I use 12 gauge speaker wire from QED, XLR cables from blue jeans and audioquest. Thinking about getting the Kimber cable 8TC Gene recommends, but a little too pricey for me right now.

Another question I'm sure you guys know about... I just use generic settings for my Crossover at 80hz and my LFE at 120hz. is that adequate or should I play around and experiment with other settings?

The LFE setting is just for Low Frequency Effects in movies. That effects channel can have content from 0 to 120Hz, so if you set it below 120Hz you can actually filter out some of the content, so it's recommended to always set it to 120Hz.

The crossover setting is what determines what gets fed to your subwoofer(s). 80Hz is the typical starting point and probably the most common setting used. Depends on your speakers and your room's characteristics. If you use room correction software built in to your preamp or AVR you can let it handle things but if you want to really dial in your bass that is a whole other topic for discussion. That typically requires getting a measurement microphone like a Umik and using Room EQ Wizard (REW) software to record the response and see what needs attention in your particular room.

 

[philly]

I believe the main difference with a dual monoblock is that it is has a shared power supply. The transformers and capacitors get quite large with these beefy supplies, so most of the volume is taken up by the power supply in the center and beyond that the amplifiers do not share any components. You have two totally separate amps but they both feed off of the one supply. With monoblocks you obviously need a separate power supply for each unit.

Any competent engineer can design an adequate power supply, so there is no measurable benefit that I can think of until you get into the really high powered amps. You can eventually get to a point where the current requirements of the equipment begin to exceed the 15 amp or 20 amp rating on residential circuits and you need to start running multiple circuits to the AV room to supply enough current. Some of of the D'Agostino amps can use up to 6kW! That's exotic equipment that no one here uses to my knowledge.

Probably my misunderstanding but just for my knowledge, this is the description... so is the power transformer the same as the power supply?

"This stereo amp actually contains two powerful independent monoblock amplifiers. And this is one dual-mono design that provides the "full monty": each channel has its own circuit board, heat sinks, and toroidal power transformer."

 

[Golfx]

I believe the main difference with a dual monoblock is that it is has a shared power supply. The transformers and capacitors get quite large with these beefy supplies, so most of the volume is taken up by the power supply in the center and beyond that the amplifiers do not share any components. You have two totally separate amps but they both feed off of the one supply. With monoblocks you obviously need a separate power supply for each unit.

Any competent engineer can design an adequate power supply, so there is no measurable benefit that I can think of until you get into the really high powered amps. You can eventually get to a point where the current requirements of the equipment begin to exceed the 15 amp or 20 amp rating on residential circuits and you need to start running multiple circuits to the AV room to supply enough current. Some of of the D'Agostino amps can use up to 6kW! That's exotic equipment that no one here uses to my knowledge.

Actually with dual mono blocks (especially the Apollon 9040) Each amp module has its own separate power supply.

 

[philly]

Actually with dual mono blocks (especially the Apollon 9040) Each amp module has its own separate power supply.

Does my Anthem STR?

 

[lovinthehd]

Actually with dual mono blocks (especially the Apollon 9040) Each amp module has its own separate power supply.

Yeah seems several using this term are implying separate power supplies/transformers. Does make me wonder what they still end up sharing, aside from the box and the single power cord.....

 

[lovinthehd]

Does my Anthem STR?

Anthem's page says "Inside, the STR Power Amplifier uses two colossal transformers"

 

[Eppie]

That seems to be true for most dual mono-blocks. My apologies. There are units that share a single transformer but have separate secondary windings and others that have entirely separate power supplies (two transformers), so they just share the power cord. The rational is that monoblocks have less intermodulation distortion so separate transformers are preferred.

 

[Golfx]

That seems to be true for most dual mono-blocks. My apologies. There are units that share a single transformer but have separate secondary windings and others that have entirely separate power supplies (two transformers), so they just share the power cord. The rational is that monoblocks have less intermodulation distortion so separate transformers are preferred.

To add to that the purifi 1ET9040BA amp modules each draw too much power to share. There isn’t a switching power supply large enough to share.

https://purifi-audio.com/document/share/59/a82eb980-951a-4387-85ce-43caaa1e5c2e

 

[Tankini]

I've owned Monoblock amps in the past, outside of each L/R main speakers having their own power supply and jet black noise floor, my ears couldn't tell the difference with normal listening levels. At much higher volume yeah some difference with clarity, but I love my hearing more I sold them off.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There's the thing. Does it matter if they are monoblock or 16CH amps if their measurements are better or state-of-the-art awesome?

Would you rather have a monoblock with THD+N of 0.02% or a 16Ch amp that has THD+N of 0.0002% if both have the same output into 8/4/2 ohms?

 

[Eppie]

To add to that the purifi 1ET9040BA amp modulates each draw too much power to share. There isn’t a switching power supply large enough to share.

https://purifi-audio.com/document/share/59/a82eb980-951a-4387-85ce-43caaa1e5c2e

I wonder if there are any class D amps that use linear power supplies for that reason? It seems logical to use a switching power supply with a class D amp that uses pulse width modulation. That would yield very good efficiency, but as you mentioned, switching supplies have their limits and some of these monoblocks have very big current demands.

Some of these start to get into the audio bling territory though. The AGD amps are works of art but at least they have specs to match.