SVS Ultra Evolution Pinnacle Review

[TLS Guy]

I appreciate your reviews Shady. It is great to have advanced warning. That gives me time to figure out the problems. It is a great game I like to play. I have to say I'm pleased with my scorecard on this one.

The first point I would make is that making a curved enclosure like that, with the drivers' center's aligned does not time align the speaker. It does not even make a close time alignment.

So let's take this 140 Hz LF/MF cross over. It is a second order 12 db. per octave crossover, so the phase shift at crossover is 180 degrees.

So a half cycle at 140 Hz is 4'. 3.9' to be more exact. So the fancy cabinet does not time align the drivers.

This low crossover as you point out creates a problem in that the caps and inductors are huge. The inductor in series with the woofers, will have a significant enough DC resistance to adversely affect performance. I know this, as I did extensive research on this forty or so years ago. I came to the conclusion that if you want high performance with a crossover that low, then an active design is absolutely mandatory. In addition you end up with an adverse load to the amp, far more likely than not, as is the case here. This I predicted. Yes, this matters. These days it is not necessary as I'm pretty certain a class D amp and active crossover could be provided for the same cost as those expensive inductors and caps. What is more digital technology can truly time align the drivers.

The next problem that was created was those rear firing woofers. This was done to keep the cabinet narrow and still provide enough power to forgo a sub. So that system is equivalent to a 12" driver in each speaker.

However we now have the thorny problem of baffle step compensation. So in a front driver arrangement there is a transition between a mono pole speaker and an omni pole speaker, known as the transition frequency. This is compensated for by boosting 6 db per octave below the transition frequency.

However we now have rear facing drivers coming in below the transition frequency. You can see from the FR that the BSC is initially under compensated and then over compensated below the 140 Hz crossover. In addition the mid range drivers are going to be operating below the transition frequency. This probably accounts for the fact that this mids are not good mids, and can not handle the speech discrimination band.
This leaves a small cone woofer certainly operating close to its resonant frequency, which I don't like. Also as you point out, it makes it a prime candidate for voice coil burnout if driven hard.

I regard your measurements and recordings of that crossover situation as suboptimal as I suspected. I would bet that on prolonged listening that alone would not make me happy.

So, I do consider this an unhappy design concept. At least a semi-active approach would have been far better, and also allowed for much easier insertion of the LFE signal. it would have been a much better fit to current AVR and AVP practice.

That impedance drop to just above 2 ohms is going to stress a lot of amps and almost certainly cause premature failure of even some pretty robust amps. I would personally not like drive those with one of my 909s, which are about as robust as they come. I think that a lot of amp failures are actually down to the speaker designer and not the amp designer. I personally take this facet of speaker design extremely seriously and giving the issue as wide a berth as I can.

In many ways these speakers do have similar design objectives to my main speakers, but I solved the issues very differently. I made the decision to go for an active/passive design. This allowed for easy integration of sub and LFE signals. It allowed for the baffle step issue to be entirely solved and adjusted for room boundaries on an infinitely adjustable basis.

Now these speakers are much less costly than mine, even with DIY. So it is not entirely apples to apples. However if you factor in longevity then over time mine become a very good deal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speaker reviews are becoming useless. What is the perfect speaker, has it ever been produced? For example, ShadyJ and review a speaker, but we must never forget, those are his ears. All of us reading the eventual review can listen to those same speakers or any speaker and come away with a different impression or feeling about them. So I say again, speaker reviews are becoming useless, one must hear a speaker for themselves.

Well the main purpose of any review is to see the objective measurements and one or two subjective opinions.

You have a good point about how we all differ in our subjective opinions. Some may like the speaker and some may hate it.

But the objective measurements can be useful. If a speaker has a response of 20-20kHz +/- 10dB, it probably means we should stay far away from that speaker.

If you want a speaker that can play subwoofer bass so that you won’t need separate subwoofers due to room limitations, then the objective measurement could tell you which speaker has the bass you want.

So read the subjective opinions, study the objective measurements, and go listen to the speakers if you are able to.

 

[audiogod66]

Several of my friends are now using advanced hi end processors that incorporate Dirac Live with the advanced bass package for stereo listening and report that it transforms the listening experience . I suspect that these speakers coupled with the very latest Dirac would be 90% solved most issues.
Anyway does the SVS come with bass port plugs? That may well allow a degree of tuning the response. I must admit the 140 hz crossover has me surprised, along with the 1800hz for the tweeter -despite what they preach on a certain other forum where everyone knows more than any speaker designer. I would hate to hear a tweeter straining - at its lower range dome tweeters can have large distortion increases. Anyway shadyJ never reported this and I no longer listen too loud so I would not reach the limits of the tweeter.
These are an expensive speaker in Australia and in comparison with the Kef r11Meta I would choose the Kef its measurements are far superior and at 12k plus who wants ordinary.

 

[Auditor55]

Several of my friends are now using advanced hi end processors that incorporate Dirac Live with the advanced bass package for stereo listening and report that it transforms the listening experience . I suspect that these speakers coupled with the very latest Dirac would be 90% solved most issues.
Anyway does the SVS come with bass port plugs? That may well allow a degree of tuning the response. I must admit the 140 hz crossover has me surprised, along with the 1800hz for the tweeter -despite what they preach on a certain other forum where everyone knows more than any speaker designer. I would hate to hear a tweeter straining - at its lower range dome tweeters can have large distortion increases. Anyway shadyJ never reported this and I no longer listen too loud so I would not reach the limits of the tweeter.
These are an expensive speaker in Australia and in comparison with the Kef r11Meta I would choose the Kef its measurements are far superior and at 12k plus who wants ordinary.

So if you sat down and played one of your favorite tunes, based on what you said above, you don't believe those speakers would be good or adequate to be pleasing to you?

 

[TLS Guy]

Several of my friends are now using advanced hi end processors that incorporate Dirac Live with the advanced bass package for stereo listening and report that it transforms the listening experience . I suspect that these speakers coupled with the very latest Dirac would be 90% solved most issues.
Anyway does the SVS come with bass port plugs? That may well allow a degree of tuning the response. I must admit the 140 hz crossover has me surprised, along with the 1800hz for the tweeter -despite what they preach on a certain other forum where everyone knows more than any speaker designer. I would hate to hear a tweeter straining - at its lower range dome tweeters can have large distortion increases. Anyway shadyJ never reported this and I no longer listen too loud so I would not reach the limits of the tweeter.
These are an expensive speaker in Australia and in comparison with the Kef r11Meta I would choose the Kef its measurements are far superior and at 12k plus who wants ordinary.

You can not solve most speaker issues with any form of Eq. You can help with bass problems. However, out of the bass range most speaker ills are not correctable by any form of Eq.

In this speaker in particular, I think SVS made some poor design choices and created issues that could have been avoided.

I do favor an integrated design, like this attempts to be, but I don't think their solutions were optimal to say the least.

If you are going to make an integrated speaker, from 20 Hz to 20 KHz and also incorporate SW outputs and the LFE channel of movies, then you have your work cut out. I know because I have done, it. As far as I know I have not seen a design comparable from anyone else. I am not saying it is the Holy Grail, but my solutions work very well. It would be a very steep hill to climb to offer it commercially though. The concept is 100% valid. The design also takes limited trespass in the phase/time domain. That comes at the tweeter crossover, as you can't get steep enough slopes without infringing on time coherence, without using digital filters and DSP in the crossover design. If I was designing it now that is what I would do. But since I will soon be eighty I will not be doing it, and leaving it to someone else.

 

[TankTop5]

Speaker reviews are becoming useless. What is the perfect speaker, has it ever been produced? For example, ShadyJ and review a speaker, but we must never forget, those are his ears. All of us reading the eventual review can listen to those same speakers or any speaker and come away with a different impression or feeling about them. So I say again, speaker reviews are becoming useless, one must hear a speaker for themselves.

My opinions on audio equipment are evolving, namely I’m starting to embrace the idea that it’s all the the music and I want to move past thinking about the equipment. I’ve also come to the conclusion that is the music is your focus and not the equipment that your ears and brain will adjust if the equipment is just good enough and there are no glaring issues. Double blind tests are needed because we can’t disengage the rest from of our brain to only focus on the sound otherwise, why not capitalize on that and get equipment and a visually stimulating setup that may be slightly less than perfect? Engage the entire brain and senses when listening to your MUSIC or video and loose yourself in it while forgetting about bs.

edit add: I’m not suggesting buying s—ty snake oil equipment but just buy what makes you happy and get back to the music

 

[audiogod66]

With regard to the latest and most complete form of Dirac live bass I personally have not experienced it . However the people using it are getting the best stereo sound they have ever and these are people like the owner of stereonet etc ,who have the best gear now sold because Dirac live bass is that good -so I have no doubt it would improve it . I own a DEQX processor still and have no doubt it would improve this speaker far more than just eq -they do time align the speaker -the difference can be huge.

"So if you sat down and played one of your favorite tunes, based on what you said above, you don't believe those speakers would be good or adequate to be pleasing to you?"

As for whether I would not like this speaker I have no idea but the Kef r11 Meta is a fantastic measuring speaker and why not have the more accurate speaker at a cheaper price -remember your only paying 5k its 12k in Aus. And if the bass is flabby or boomy I would hate it.

 

[gene]

I'm disappointed in SVS. They made their mark in audio by making affordable high-performance audio. They were the epitome of bang for the buck, not any longer. BTW, where is the bookshelf version of the speaker, I was disappointed that I did not see a bookshelf version.

SVS has a more affordable line of speakers if these are out of your budget. They also have a bookshelf version in this series which you could have seen for yourself if you went to their website instead of making ASSumptions.

 

[gene]

Speaker reviews are becoming useless. What is the perfect speaker, has it ever been produced? For example, ShadyJ and review a speaker, but we must never forget, those are his ears. All of us reading the eventual review can listen to those same speakers or any speaker and come away with a different impression or feeling about them. So I say again, speaker reviews are becoming useless, one must hear a speaker for themselves.

You can say the same thing about forum opinions and anything for that matter. Reviews are a guide to help you decide what's right for your needs. SVS has a generous return policy to help you make the decision in your own listening space.

 

[Auditor55]

SVS has a more affordable line of speakers if these are out of your budget. They also have a bookshelf version in this series which you could have seen for yourself if you went to their website instead of making ASSumptions.

My point was that SVS made their mark in this industry by producing high quality products at affordable prices, even their so-called flagship products. Their current flagship tower speakers represent more than a 60% jump in price from their previous flagship towers, that far exceed the rate of inflation and wages. It seems to me that SVS is trying to crossover or gradually tip their toes in another tier of consumers and consumer products.

BTW, I fully examined their website before making my comments so Im not making ASSumptions. I saw a bookshelf speaker, however I didn't see where it said Ultra Evolution Pinnacle Bookshelf like it does for the towers, so I doubt if the new Ultra Bookshelf is bookshelf version of Ultra Evolution Pinnacle towers which are SVS current flagship towers.

 

[Danzilla31]

@shadyJ!!!! Great job on the review!

I applaud your impeccable taste in horror. A group of my friend do scary movies Sundays every week CobWeb was very popular a very good and creepy story and it looks and sounds awesome in a home theater setup. We just watched The Wailing have you seen that one yet? Fantastic everyone loved it I highly recommend it for you.

As for the review I have mixed feelings about these

I feel like the so called speaker bend in the cabinet for time alignment is more marketing then providing an absolute measurable or audible benefit. And it seems from your review to provide as many compromises to make it work as it does benefits

Once you enter the $2500 range and on up your getting into stiffer competition where more buyers will value neutrality more. But I like speakers that are voiced the way they voiced this speaker and I'm sure I would enjoy it.

The other issue as you noted is the power requirements to drive this speaker and their crossover issue with subs. Its going to take a lot more power to drive them full range especially if I were to use 3 in my theater room say

Although using the towers full range would possibly benefit those that are going to be utilizing Dirac ART and also provide more bass sources on top of the subs to help smooth out room modes.

An interesting speaker AMBITIOUS design I applaud them for that. Not sure I wouldn't go with other offerings in this price range though based on how they measure

Thanks again for all you guys do for us!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@shadyJ
...An interesting speaker AMBITIOUS design I applaud them for that. Not sure I wouldn't go with other offerings in this price range though based on how they measure...

I assume they are using a pre-made Chinese cabinet, which looks great and resembles a Focal speaker.

 

[Chacranajxy]

Kind of cool to finally see this review - I remember when I was buying the SBS-01 set from SVS back in 2007, they had a listing on their site that said "our high-end option is coming soon!" or something along those lines. It took close to two decades, and I'm really not their target audience anymore, but I guess they finally got there.

 

[gene]

 

[gene]

My point was that SVS made their mark in this industry by producing high quality products at affordable prices, even their so-called flagship products. Their current flagship tower speakers represent more than a 60% jump in price from their previous flagship towers, that far exceed the rate of inflation and wages. It seems to me that SVS is trying to crossover or gradually tip their toes in another tier of consumers and consumer products.

BTW, I fully examined their website before making my comments so Im not making ASSumptions. I saw a bookshelf speaker, however I didn't see where it said Ultra Evolution Pinnacle Bookshelf like it does for the towers, so I doubt if the new Ultra Bookshelf is bookshelf version of Ultra Evolution Pinnacle towers which are SVS current flagship towers.

Expecting companies to not aspire to higher end and higher cost design options is a very narrow view.

The Evolution bookshelf is meant to compliment the rest of the series. It uses the same tweeter and woofer designs so I'm at a loss on what your problem is with that other than nomenclature.

 

[Golfx]

Speaker reviews are becoming useless. What is the perfect speaker, has it ever been produced? For example, ShadyJ and review a speaker, but we must never forget, those are his ears. All of us reading the eventual review can listen to those same speakers or any speaker and come away with a different impression or feeling about them. So I say again, speaker reviews are becoming useless, one must hear a speaker for themselves.

Oh poo. You must be having a bad day. I like Shady’s reviews especially the measurements. Those help me narrow and scope my wish list. How can anyone listen to all the speakers?

 

[Auditor55]

Oh poo. You must be having a bad day. I like Shady’s reviews especially the measurements. Those help me narrow and scope my wish list. How can anyone listen to all the speakers?

You missed the point sir. When comes to speakers, you can read all the reviews, but in the end it comes down to your own ears. I doubt that anyone would purchase a pair of speakers based soley upon what they read in a review.

 

[lovinthehd]

You missed the point sir. When comes to speakers, you can read all the reviews, but in the end it comes down to your own ears. I doubt that anyone would purchase a pair of speakers based soley upon what they read in a review.

I prefer measurements rather than trying to listen to all possible speakers, altho I tend to disregard the reviewer's subjective opinions. What price point matters to you, hard to know. SVS started mostly with subs rather than speakers but have widened their product line for a while now....and they've done generally well at keeping things affrordable...

 

[-Jim-]

You missed the point sir. When comes to speakers, you can read all the reviews, but in the end it comes down to your own ears. I doubt that anyone would purchase a pair of speakers based soley upon what they read in a review.

I used to think the same way, but when I looking to upgrade our Games Room system (now a 7.2.4 Atmos), I was looking for "bookshelf" speakers for the front LCR, and came across the reviews for the HSU CCB-8s. They are only available to listen to at their showroom in California, and I live in Canada. So after reading every review I could find, I bought them and imported them into Canada without hearing a note or seeing them in person. And to this day, I don't regret the purchase one bit.

 

[Golfx]

You missed the point sir. When comes to speakers, you can read all the reviews, but in the end it comes down to your own ears. I doubt that anyone would purchase a pair of speakers based soley upon what they read in a review.

That is not the way it was written. It was dismissive of reviews and measurements. When shopping that is really the only tool we have to sort through the hundreds of different speaker manufacturers.