EX-PRESIDENT INDICTED

M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
According to polls, 53% of Americans want Trump to be pardoned if he's convicted. I'm certainly NOT in the 53% but, barring a major shift in public sentiment, it seems as if Trump will probably not see prison time even if he's convicted.

>>>Fifty-three percent of respondents to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll said they would support a Trump pardon to maintain national unity — including 80 percent of Republicans, 30 percent of Democrats, and 48 percent of independents. And the majority of American voters believe this despite 58 percent of respondents indicating the case against Trump is “strong.” <<<


My own view is that no one is above the law and a person should not escape the consequences of criminal convictions based on their status. This is apparently a minority view in America now.

The notion that a rich and powerful (purportedly populist) leader should be given special treatment under the law seems strange, but these are strange days indeed.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
According to polls, 53% of Americans want Trump to be pardoned if he's convicted. I'm certainly NOT in the 53% but, barring a major shift in public sentiment, it seems as if Trump will probably not see prison time even if he's convicted.
I ignore all polls, unless they were done after Labor Day on a Presidential Election year. It's now early August 2023, more than year away from November 2024. Few people give this or any other political matter much thought. Far more are on vacation.

As difficult as it may be for us to imagine, most people in this nation do not think about politics on a day-to-day basis, especially the horse race kind of politics that so many reporters become obsessed with. And when Americans shift their focus to politics, election day is about two months away. A lot can happen between now and 13 months from now.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Here's a genuine trend I do pay attention to.

In the last 8 presidential elections since 1992 (30 years), Democrats won 5 and GOP won 3. In two of those GOP wins, Bush in 2000 and Trump in 2016, the winner won the Electoral College vote while losing the popular vote. Only once in the last 30 years has the GOP won the popular vote, in 2004. Republicans are well aware of this 30-year record of losing nationwide popular votes. This is why they’ve opposed any reform or elimination of the Electoral College. And it’s why they’re so determined to restrict the turnout of voters in future elections. That's an outright admission that they can’t win power in the national government with fair elections.

In 2020, Trump’s failed re-election bid resulted from the largest voter turnout (66.7%) in modern times. The previous high voter turnout, 62.8% was in 1960. Compare those turnouts to the 55.7% voter turnout in 2016. In 2020, voting in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin reversed narrow GOP wins in 2016. In Georgia and Arizona, once dependable GOP strongholds, voters went Democratic. Since then, the GOP has claimed, without any evidence, that massive voter fraud caused their loss. Since then, GOP state legislators have introduced many (as many as 440 in 49 states the last time I checked) bills, aimed at restricting voter turnout.

Since surprising himself by winning the 2016 election, Trump has done poorly in every election. After winning the White House and both houses of Congress in 2016, the GOP lost the House of Representatives in 2018, and lost everything in 2020. In 2022, the first off-year election of Biden's term, the GOP did quite poorly only taking the House of Representative by a small margin, failing to take the Senate. Although there were MAGA GOP candidates that Trump supported in the primaries, most (all?) got drubbed in the November 2022 election.

Pay attention to that 30-year record, not some mid-summer poll more than a year before the November 2024 election.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Back in June 1972, Nixon's Plumbers broke into the Democratic Party HQ in the Watergate and bugged the phones. In the November 1972 election Nixon still won.

During most of the lengthy Watergate investigation, public opinion narrowly supported Nixon. Only sometime in the early summer of 1974 did public opinion rapidly shift from 'let him finish his 2nd term' to 'run that lying SOB out of Washington'. People forget this.

Gerald Ford made a huge mistake in pardoning Nixon before he was ever charged with a crime. A strong public outcry followed this, resulting in Ford becoming a care-taker president in his remaining 2-years in the White House. He badly misjudged how rapidly public opinion had shifted.

I certainly can't predict how the criminal trials of Trump will turn out. But I will predict that public opinion will take a long time to change, if it changes at all. That's another reason why I ignore such polls as the recent one mentioned by Mr._Clark.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Back in June 1972, Nixon's Plumbers broke into the Democratic Party HQ in the Watergate and bugged the phones. In the November 1972 election Nixon still won.

During most of the lengthy Watergate investigation, public opinion narrowly supported Nixon. Only sometime in the early summer of 1974 did public opinion rapidly shift from 'let him finish his 2nd term' to 'run that lying SOB out of Washington'. People forget this.
Hey, give us a break! We aren't all as old as you, ya know! :D
Gerald Ford made a huge mistake in pardoning Nixon before he was ever charged with a crime. A strong public outcry followed this, resulting in Ford becoming a care-taker president in his remaining 2-years in the White House. He badly misjudged how rapidly public opinion had shifted.

I certainly can't predict how the criminal trials of Trump will turn out. But I will predict that public opinion will take a long time to change, if it changes at all. That's another reason why I ignore such polls as the recent one mentioned by Mr._Clark.
Are the cases comparable though? I would imagine that public opinion turned against Nixon as the evidence was revealed during the investigation. With Trump, a mountain of evidence is already known, yet MAGA-world seems immune to it.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Here's a genuine trend I do pay attention to.

In the last 8 presidential elections since 1992 (30 years), Democrats won 5 and GOP won 3. In two of those GOP wins, Bush in 2000 and Trump in 2016, the winner won the Electoral College vote while losing the popular vote. Only once in the last 30 years has the GOP won the popular vote, in 2004. Republicans are well aware of this 30-year record of losing nationwide popular votes. This is why they’ve opposed any reform or elimination of the Electoral College. And it’s why they’re so determined to restrict the turnout of voters in future elections. That's an outright admission that they can’t win power in the national government with fair elections.

In 2020, Trump’s failed re-election bid resulted from the largest voter turnout (66.7%) in modern times. The previous high voter turnout, 62.8% was in 1960. Compare those turnouts to the 55.7% voter turnout in 2016. In 2020, voting in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin reversed narrow GOP wins in 2016. In Georgia and Arizona, once dependable GOP strongholds, voters went Democratic. Since then, the GOP has claimed, without any evidence, that massive voter fraud caused their loss. Since then, GOP state legislators have introduced many (as many as 440 in 49 states the last time I checked) bills, aimed at restricting voter turnout.

Since surprising himself by winning the 2016 election, Trump has done poorly in every election. After winning the White House and both houses of Congress in 2016, the GOP lost the House of Representatives in 2018, and lost everything in 2020. In 2022, the first off-year election of Biden's term, the GOP did quite poorly only taking the House of Representative by a small margin, failing to take the Senate. Although there were MAGA GOP candidates that Trump supported in the primaries, most (all?) got drubbed in the November 2022 election.

Pay attention to that 30-year record, not some mid-summer poll more than a year before the November 2024 election.
But - apparently - voting restrictions aren't a "thing", or are ineffective, so it's all good.
Problems With Liberal Democracy | Page 14 | Audioholics Home Theater Forums
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Nat'l unity? I was kinda hoping for Nat'l Trump Pig Roast Day. Never tried human before, but add some BBQ, corn, beer, and some music and i imagine it would be a rockin' time. :cool:

Seriously, I don't really get natl unity? Like we hold our reps to such a high standard that when they fail us it's too much to handle? Don't we tend to think politicians are not saints to begin with? It's conceivable Nixon had redemption in him after despite living the remainder of his life in disgrace. However, I don't think Trump even knows what disgrace or redemption is.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Hey, give us a break! We aren't all as old as you, ya know! :D
I may be older than many here, but my memory remains good (if I remember correctly ;)).
Are the cases comparable though? I would imagine that public opinion turned against Nixon as the evidence was revealed during the investigation. With Trump, a mountain of evidence is already known, yet MAGA-world seems immune to it.
Yes, I think Watergate and Jan 6th are comparable enough. They aren't totally the same, but there's enough in both to make valid comparisons of them.

Watergate was about Nixon running a secret police group, the Plumbers, from within the White House. It was paid for by secret contributions from Nixon supporters. Congress didn't know about it, didn't pay for it, and had no oversight over it. These things made it without question unconstitutional.

Nixon tried and failed to claim immunity and executive privilege during the cover up. Nixon tried to hide the fact that he personally ordered the Watergate break-in as well as the subsequent cover up. He tried to stone-wall the investigations by refusing to release documents including the secret Oval Office tapes. Ultimately, the US Supreme Court ruled 8-0 that executive privilege did not apply and he had to release all documents including the tapes.

Before that Supreme Court ruling, Nixon had tried to persuade the public that he was innocent, by voluntarily releasing written transcripts of selected portions of the tapes, being sure to omit any conversations that he knew would incriminate him. That backfired. Those transcripts became infamous because they revealed how foul-mouthed and bigoted Nixon was in private. Yes, the general public was truly offended by that. Whenever Nixon cursed, the phrase Expletive Deleted appeared in the transcripts. That appeared so many times, it quickly became a joke, at Nixon's expense. If you wanted to curse someone out, while appearing to remain civil, you only had to wink and say Expletive Deleted. Everyone got the joke.

At around the same time, other investigations revealed how Nixon had avoided paying any federal income tax, by using a number of highly dubious deductions, for a number of years. Nixon's Expletive Deleted and tax evasion began to turn public opinion against him.
Once the 'smoking gun' evidence on the tapes was revealed, most public support, as well as Congressional & Senate support vanished. After nearly 2 years, the public finally saw Nixon as the tax evading, foul-mouthed, lying president who ordered the criminal Watergate break-in and the criminal cover-up.

During Watergate, the GOP never had a majority in either the Senate or the House. The Democrats ran the Watergate investigations and the impeachment process. Once the Supreme Court made it's unanimous 8-0 ruling, and the Articles of Impeachment were passed by the House Judiciary Committee, and GOP support in both Houses rapidly collapsed.

After Watergate was over, hard-core Nixon supporters, including Roger Ailes (a young White House aide at the time), convinced themselves that it was bad PR that brought Nixon down. They blamed the three major news networks NBC, ABC, CBS, as well as the Washington Post and New York Times – all were politically opposed Nixon. Of course, they ignored Nixon's criminal acts in Watergate and the constitutional crisis he created. This false belief motivated the creation of Faux News, with Roger Ailes in charge.

Trump tried to overthrow the results of a legitimate election, in a wide-spread effort to toss aside election results in six states, substituting false electors, and to get the vice president to toss aside the certified election results from those six states. He also invoked a violent riot at the US Capital building to stop the election certification proceedings. It's not the same as Nixon's Plumbers, but both were unconstitutional as well as criminal – without question.

Like Nixon, Trump falsely claimed immunity and executive privilege in an effort to squelch investigations. These efforts have largely failed in the court system, but this ain't over yet.

Unlike Watergate, the elected GOP members of the House and Senate supported Trump. And, Faux News played a very large role in whipping up the MAGA crowd to support Trump. They persist in the myth that Trump is innocent and that his political opponents are behind all of this.

That's why I am treating Nixon and Trump similarly.
 
Last edited:
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Back in June 1972, Nixon's Plumbers broke into the Democratic Party HQ in the Watergate and bugged the phones. In the November 1972 election Nixon still won.

During most of the lengthy Watergate investigation, public opinion narrowly supported Nixon. Only sometime in the early summer of 1974 did public opinion rapidly shift from 'let him finish his 2nd term' to 'run that lying SOB out of Washington'. People forget this.

Gerald Ford made a huge mistake in pardoning Nixon before he was ever charged with a crime. A strong public outcry followed this, resulting in Ford becoming a care-taker president in his remaining 2-years in the White House. He badly misjudged how rapidly public opinion had shifted.

I certainly can't predict how the criminal trials of Trump will turn out. But I will predict that public opinion will take a long time to change, if it changes at all. That's another reason why I ignore such polls as the recent one mentioned by Mr._Clark.
If you are convinced that Trump will go to jail, you can place a wager on it.


I haven't found the odds after his last indictment, but the trend seems to be that people think his odds of going to jail are going up.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Unlike Watergate, the elected GOP members of the House and Senate supported Trump. And, Faux News played a very large role in whipping up the MAGA crowd to support Trump. They persist in the myth that Trump is innocent and that his political opponents are behind all of this.
Agreed. Sad and alarming that so many people think that Trump is a religious man who is on their side. He cares nothing for religion, his base, or our country. If we survive this criminal, he and his followers will go down on the wrong side of history. If not, heaven help us.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
But - apparently - voting restrictions aren't a "thing", or are ineffective, so it's all good.
...
It depends more on voter turnout and the lack of consistently participating at the booth, voting.
We should have 80%+ all the time.
Not good when people don't care as every election matters.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It depends more on voter turnout and the lack of consistently participating at the booth, voting.
We should have 80%+ all the time.
Not good when people don't care as every election matters.
I have run into a significant number of people who are proud of our "democracy" but don't vote....
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I have run into a significant number of people who are proud of our "democracy" but don't vote....
Very sad indeed. Democracy depends on people's participation, especially at the ballot box.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
According to Trump, anyone that commits a crime just has to run for office to hopefully have the case thrown out as "Election Interference"
This would explain all those "Unabomber For Dog Catcher" signs I still see sometimes.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Trump currently faces 78 felony charges and more to be added (probably) from a Georgia indictment.

>>>Donald Trump now faces 78 felony charges across three criminal cases— many of them carrying the potential for hefty prison time.

If Trump were convicted on all counts and given the maximum statutory penalty for each one, he would face a whopping 641 years in prison. And that’s not counting additional criminal charges he may face in Georgia, where the district attorney in Fulton County may be on the verge of indicting him this month. …<<<

 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
Trump currently faces 78 felony charges and more to be added (probably) from a Georgia indictment.

>>>Donald Trump now faces 78 felony charges across three criminal cases— many of them carrying the potential for hefty prison time.

If Trump were convicted on all counts and given the maximum statutory penalty for each one, he would face a whopping 641 years in prison. And that’s not counting additional criminal charges he may face in Georgia, where the district attorney in Fulton County may be on the verge of indicting him this month. …<<<

I think Mr Smith has more up his sleeve with Trumpys Jan 6th case (besides the co conspirators) much like he did with the Mar a Lago case...can't wait to see that.
Just imagine the fallout once his cronies start really singing.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
There has been a lot discussion in the media to the effect that the criminal cases will not impact Trump's support among Republicans. Based factual poll evidence, a felony conviction would have a significant negative impact in the general election.

>>>WASHINGTON, Aug 3 (Reuters) - About half of Republicans would not vote for Donald Trump if he were convicted of a felony, a sign of the severe risks his legal problems pose for his 2024 U.S. presidential bid, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll that closed on Thursday. . . . The two-day Reuters/Ipsos poll asked respondents if they would vote for Trump for president next year if he were "convicted of a felony crime by a jury." Among Republicans, 45% said they would not vote for him, more than the 35% who said they would. The rest said they didn't know.<<<

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/exclusive-about-half-of-us-republicans-could-spurn-trump-if-he-is-convicted-reuters-ipsos

People are of course free to ignore factual evidence if it contradicts their beliefs.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top