j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
That is impractical BS. At 400 volts that would take a charging current of 1800 amps to provide that amount of energy in 10 minutes. Now scale that up to a service station charging even 10 cars, and you have 18,000 amps just to one service station. The total impracticality of people who should know better is just astounding.

That would require the Rolls Royce approach to literally place a nuclear power station on every block. I'm serious about this. They actually have working models of such developed from the power plants of nuclear submarines, in which they are a world leader. It might be a good plan if it were not a terrorists paradise. I think every other job would be as an armed security guard.
Solid state batteries eliminate the liquid portion of the battery, making them smaller and basically not prone to fires. They also weigh less, take far more charging cycles over their life and their energy density is much higher. Faster charging times and longer range would be possible, but this is a brand new technology at this scale. My company, as well as many others, have been working on this for years.

Cars would be at the charging stations for much less time, but yes, there would still be additional draw on the grid. CA we already see it, with notifications about charging only at night during heat waves. There is no way they can just cold turkey gas cars, it won't happen. eFuel is the alternative and about 1/3 of the car industry seems to be backing it now as a stop-gap while battery technology matures.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
ahhhhh, the trials and tribulations of the early adopters !
Agreed. Maybe hybrids are still a better buy for now. Or even (heaven forbid) a nice 4 cylinder fuel efficient gas powered car.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Test drove Ioniq 5 SEL today because I was off. Honestly, it is better than I expected. I was expecting soft and Camry feel, but it drives nice. Firm enough with good feel, almost like a Model 3.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
That is impractical BS. At 400 volts that would take a charging current of 1800 amps to provide that amount of energy in 10 minutes. Now scale that up to a service station charging even 10 cars, and you have 18,000 amps just to one service station. The total impracticality of people who should know better is just astounding.
First, it's not BS. I wouldn't risk any money betting that you're right. Early generations of fully rechargeable EVs are already here. It's easy to predict that newer versions will have more potent batteries, and recharging while on the road will become easier. They already exist in development stages.
That would require the Rolls Royce approach to literally place a nuclear power station on every block. I'm serious about this. They actually have working models of such developed from the power plants of nuclear submarines, in which they are a world leader. It might be a good plan if it were not a terrorists paradise. I think every other job would be as an armed security guard.
Your assessment of massive burdens on the electric power grid are exaggerated to the point where they become more than misleading. If the gasoline production & distribution system of the USA were evaluated during the mid 1930s, and extrapolated for another 30 or 40 years into the future, it would also lead to similarly misleading predictions that personal ownership of automobiles was an unrealistic pipe dream.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Recharging an EV at home with a Level 2 charger (240 VAC, 50 Amp) is not much of a burden on the grid. I've used that method for the great majority of my recharges. The only time I've used the Fast DC chargers (most of them now are 480 VDC, ~100 Amp, 150 kW) is when I'm on a road trip. That now adds up to a grand total of 11 recharges. I haven't counted how many times I've recharged at home so I can't estimate what fraction of my total recharges that represents. I'd be surprised if it was as much as 10%. Your assessment seems to assume that high powered Fast DC charging will be done all the time. Even assuming most people use them more than I do, it doesn't come close to 100% of all EV recharges.

Furthermore, neither Fast DC nor lower power Level 2 charging use full power all the time while an EV is plugged in. Charging up doesn't proceed linear with time. Charging an EV follows a programmed pattern of increasingly lower power settings as the battery becomes charged. Lithium ion batteries require this for a longer lifespan. The charger communicates with an EV and knows how much charge is in the battery when first plugged in, and all through the charge-up process.

At first, fairly high power is applied. I've never seen a Fast DC charger apply more than 75% of it's full power – and that doesn't last long. As an EV's battery becomes charged up to ~50%, power begins to drop. By 70%, it drops more, more again at 80%, slowing to a trickle as it approaches 90%. I haven't timed it, but it could easily take as much as one third, up to half the total charging time to charge that last fraction from 70% to 90%. (Most EVs are programmed to charge no further than 90%.)

If someone is waiting his turn at a Fast DC charger, unwritten etiquette among EV owners has it that you should stop your own charge-up at 80%, instead of 90%, to give him a turn.

If I knew how to translate all this into a more realistic assessment of the EV charging burden of the US electric power grid, I come out and say it directly. But your assessment is so pessimistic that it's useless.
 
Last edited:
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
First, it's not BS. I wouldn't risk any money betting that you're right. Early generations of fully rechargeable EVs are already here. It's easy to predict that newer versions will have more potent batteries, and recharging while on the road will become easier. They already exist in development stages.
Your assessment of massive burdens on the electric power grid are exaggerated to the point where they become more than misleading. If the gasoline production & distribution system of the USA were evaluated during the mid 1930s, and extrapolated for another 30 or 40 years into the future, it would also lead to similarly misleading predictions that personal ownership of automobiles was an unrealistic pipe dream.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Recharging an EV at home with a Level 2 charger (240 VAC, 50 Amp) is not much of a burden on the grid. I've used that method for the great majority of my recharges. The only time I've used the Fast DC chargers (most of them now are 480 VDC, ~100 Amp, 150 kW) is when I'm on a road trip. That now adds up to a grand total of 11 recharges. I haven't counted how many times I've recharged at home so I can't estimate what fraction of my total recharges that represents. I'd be surprised if it was as much as 10%. Your assessment seems to assume that high powered Fast DC charging will be done all the time. Even assuming most people use them more than I do, it doesn't come close to 100% of all EV recharges.

Furthermore, neither Fast DC nor lower power Level 2 charging use full power all the time while an EV is plugged in. Charging up doesn't proceed linear with time. Charging an EV follows a programmed pattern of increasingly lower power settings as the battery becomes charged. Lithium ion batteries require this for a longer lifespan. The charger communicates with an EV and knows how much charge is in the battery when first plugged in, and all through the charge-up process.

At first, fairly high power is applied. I've never seen a Fast DC charger apply more than 75% of it's full power – and that doesn't last long. As an EV's battery becomes charged up to ~50%, power begins to drop. By 70%, it drops more, more again at 80%, slowing to a trickle as it approaches 90%. I haven't timed it, but it could easily take as much as one third, up to half the total charging time to charge that last fraction from 70% to 90%. (Most EVs are programmed to charge no further than 90%.)

If someone is waiting his turn at a Fast DC charger, unwritten etiquette among EV owners has it that you should stop your own charge-up at 80%, instead of 90%, to give him a turn.

If I knew how to translate all this into a more realistic assessment of the EV charging burden of the US electric power grid, I come out and say it directly. But your assessment is so pessimistic that it's useless.
I would imagine that the majority of EV charging takes place at home, overnight, when demands on the electrical grid are lower, as well.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Everyone on the bandwagon. Mercedes also adopts NACS.

I didn’t read this article (linked) but what I read earlier said they were adopting the supercharger network but no specification about adopting the NACS port. *shrugs
Curious to know if Stelantis overall is going to jump in.

Anybody wanna start placing bets on when Hyundai announces?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Oh it won't be long. Ever since GM and Ford adopted it, they are definitely considering. There is a fundamental issue there though, Hyundai is 800V while the Superchargers are 400V. The cars have inverters that work with any compatible voltage, but it is easier if you already are on the right voltage.

 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
more pushback .............

Poland has been the net recipient of over €200 million in EU subsidies. Further funding is at risk, due to the Polish government's increasingly authoritarian policies.
EU withholding billions in cohesion funds from Poland over rule-of-law concerns | Notes From Poland

So, claiming that EU climate policies are "authoritarian" is a bit rich.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
But NOBODY is questioning whether or not climate change is real, are they?
of course not, been going on forever ! Now the question of 'mans scale of involvement', well that's the one that's hits the debate floor
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top