Sub Pre-out issue/using REC-Out (Tape) ok?

[RynJax17]

hi everyone! Hoping to get some clarification and insight

I have an older Kenwood AV receiver and it seems my sub pre-out port is not supplying a good voltage signal. The manual says 2.5V output but I really have to crank the gain up to get some good bass. I have a brand new 12inch subwoofer by Klipsch. Now when I connect the sub to REC-Out (Tape) which is 0.5V the subs Bass output pounds at a level 2 out of 11 from the gain knob. Just wondering if connecting to REC-Out is ok for my sub and do you think the Sub pre-out port is taking a dump?

just to make sure I also connected the sub to my Fluance powered bookshelf speaker and the bass output is awesome even when the gain knob is set to 2 out of 11

also connected a 25 year old JBL 8inch powered sub into my receivers sub pre-out and again had to crank the gain up all the way to hear anything which also included +10db on the receiver sub setting and bass output was even worse. Connected it to REC-Out (0.5 volts) and the 8incher came alive at a very low gain setting

 

[lovinthehd]

If the manual indicates 2.5V on a pre-out that's higher than most fwiw. No matter how you tweak the gain keep in mind you're still limited by the amp's capabilites as well as your speakers....the use of gain control will vary with the gear you're using (and is nicer to have than not).

Rec out is a line level signal with a constant voltage output, i.e. it won't vary with the use of the volume control like an actual pre-out....

Being able to turn it up to 11 is indeed a special thing

ps What is the model of your Kenwood ?

 

[TLS Guy]

hi everyone! Hoping to get some clarification and insight

I have an older Kenwood AV receiver and it seems my sub pre-out port is not supplying a good voltage signal. The manual says 2.5V output but I really have to crank the gain up to get some good bass. I have a brand new 12inch subwoofer by Klipsch. Now when I connect the sub to REC-Out (Tape) which is 0.5V the subs Bass output pounds at a level 2 out of 11 from the gain knob. Just wondering if connecting to REC-Out is ok for my sub and do you think the Sub pre-out port is taking a dump?

just to make sure I also connected the sub to my Fluance powered bookshelf speaker and the bass output is awesome even when the gain knob is set to 2 out of 11

also connected a 25 year old JBL 8inch powered sub into my receivers sub pre-out and again had to crank the gain up all the way to hear anything which also included +10db on the receiver sub setting and bass output was even worse. Connected it to REC-Out (0.5 volts) and the 8incher came alive at a very low gain setting

REC Out is no good for a sub, as the sub will be at constant volume. So it won't vary with the volume control , like the other speakers.

Have you gone into settings, to make sure the sub out volume has not got turned down?

Check you manual to see how to set the sub out volume. If you can not bring the output up, then it is new receiver time.

 

[RynJax17]

Thank you so much for replying! The model of my Kenwood is VR-6060
So do you think the pre-out is going? And is using REC-Out an ok alternative even though I lose the volume?

 

[RynJax17]

REC Out is no good for a sub, as the sub will be at constant volume. So it won't vary with the volume control , like the other speakers.

Have you gone into settings, to make sure the sub out volume has not got turned down?

Check you manual to see how to set the sub out volume. If you can not bring the output up, then it is new receiver time.

Thank you for clearing that up that REC-Out is not good to use and will probably damage the sub and amp if used for long periods.
So in the settings there is only on/off, and increasing dB that’s it my 2 other speakers are floor speakers and they are set to Small

nothing in the manual for adjustment of the sub-out volume unless I’m missing something been dealing with this issue for a very long time. My old JBL 8inch has been plugged into the REC Out for over 2 years and I just recently upgraded to a 12 inch and don’t want to risk damaging it if REC Out is a bad option

 

[RynJax17]

REC Out is no good for a sub, as the sub will be at constant volume. So it won't vary with the volume control , like the other speakers.

Have you gone into settings, to make sure the sub out volume has not got turned down?

Check you manual to see how to set the sub out volume. If you can not bring the output up, then it is new receiver time.

a New Stereo Receiver is on my short list my two options that I have decided on are the Denon DRA-800H or the Marantz NR1200 but can’t make a decision on which one is the better unit. Any suggestions or expertise with those receivers?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you so much for replying! The model of my Kenwood is VR-6060
So do you think the pre-out is going? And is using REC-Out an ok alternative even though I lose the volume?

You can not use the rec out. Your receiver has test tones and a procedure for setting all speaker relative volumes including the sub. Go to page 22 of your manual and follow the speaker set up instructions. Obviously the settings have somehow got changed, and you need to do your speaker level set up from scratch.

 

[RynJax17]

You can not use the rec out. Your receiver has test tones and a procedure for setting all speaker relative volumes including the sub. Go to page 22 of your manual and follow the speaker set up instructions. Obviously the settings have somehow got changed, and you need to do your speaker level set up from scratch.

Thank you for your expertise! Ill stop using the REC Out from here on out
Later today i am going follow the instructions as you suggested. I do remember seeing the Test Tone function before but never ran it before you can switch from manual test or Auto test; which one would i do?
There is also a setting called "input level adjustment" (analog sources only) would changing this also have an effect on anything? i can select input 0dB, -3dB, -6dB

What is Subwoofer Re-Mix? i can select ON/OFF?

This is the other gear that i have running currently (Only listen in a 2-channel music mode /no tv is connected so the other speaker input channels are not used)
. Turntable/external phono pre-amp connected to Video input 1
. L & R Floor speakers connected to "A channel"
. L & R Surround speakers connected to "B Channel"

 

[CharlesJones166]

It's possible that the sub pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver is not functioning properly, especially if you have to crank up the gain to get good bass output. It's also possible that the voltage output from the pre-out port is not 2.5V as specified in the manual, which could explain why you need to turn up the gain to get good bass.

Connecting your subwoofer to the REC-Out (Tape) port, which has a lower voltage output of 0.5V, may work fine for your subwoofer, but it's not the ideal solution. The REC-Out port is designed to send a line-level signal to a recording device, not to drive a subwoofer. Using this port to connect your subwoofer may result in a lower signal-to-noise ratio and reduced sound quality.

If your Fluance powered bookshelf speaker has a built-in amplifier and a dedicated subwoofer output, then it's possible that this output is providing a stronger signal to your subwoofer than the sub pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver.

If you want to troubleshoot the issue further, you could try connecting a different subwoofer to the pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver to see if the issue persists. If the problem continues, then it's likely that the pre-out port is not functioning properly. If the problem goes away, then it's possible that the Klipsch subwoofer requires a higher voltage input than your JBL subwoofer to produce the same bass output. In that case, you may need to adjust the gain or other settings on your receiver to get the best performance from your Klipsch subwoofer.

 

[RynJax17]

It's possible that the sub pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver is not functioning properly, especially if you have to crank up the gain to get good bass output. It's also possible that the voltage output from the pre-out port is not 2.5V as specified in the manual, which could explain why you need to turn up the gain to get good bass.

Connecting your subwoofer to the REC-Out (Tape) port, which has a lower voltage output of 0.5V, may work fine for your subwoofer, but it's not the ideal solution. The REC-Out port is designed to send a line-level signal to a recording device, not to drive a subwoofer. Using this port to connect your subwoofer may result in a lower signal-to-noise ratio and reduced sound quality.

If your Fluance powered bookshelf speaker has a built-in amplifier and a dedicated subwoofer output, then it's possible that this output is providing a stronger signal to your subwoofer than the sub pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver.

If you want to troubleshoot the issue further, you could try connecting a different subwoofer to the pre-out port on your Kenwood receiver to see if the issue persists. If the problem continues, then it's likely that the pre-out port is not functioning properly. If the problem goes away, then it's possible that the Klipsch subwoofer requires a higher voltage input than your JBL subwoofer to produce the same bass output. In that case, you may need to adjust the gain or other settings on your receiver to get the best performance from your Klipsch subwoofer.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this. At this point i really do think the Sub-out port is malfunctioning from all the troubleshooting i have done. Another person on this thread suggested to go through all the settings for speaker setup in my system so i am going to give it one last try with that and start from scratch with a hard factory reset.

Another thing i have noticed when having the new klipsch and the old JBL connected to the Sub-out is when a song is finished and transitioning to the next track whether it be playing music from the turntable or CD player the subwoofer will make a low flutter noise/quick popping like there is still a little signal running to it between tracks. Have you heard of something like this happening? another sign the sub out port is malfunctioning? This does not happen when i connect the subs to the sub-out on my Fluance powered bookshelf speaker

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for your expertise! Ill stop using the REC Out from here on out
Later today i am going follow the instructions as you suggested. I do remember seeing the Test Tone function before but never ran it before you can switch from manual test or Auto test; which one would i do?
There is also a setting called "input level adjustment" (analog sources only) would changing this also have an effect on anything? i can select input 0dB, -3dB, -6dB

What is Subwoofer Re-Mix? i can select ON/OFF?

This is the other gear that i have running currently (Only listen in a 2-channel music mode /no tv is connected so the other speaker input channels are not used)
. Turntable/external phono pre-amp connected to Video input 1
. L & R Floor speakers connected to "A channel"
. L & R Surround speakers connected to "B Channel"

I am not in your room. Go to your manual, and if you don't have it go on line, like I did. The settings you need and instructions for all the button pressings on the remote are described..

I would bet your sub is turned way down. As far as i can tell your receiver does not have a mic, but does have test tones. So you will need to set it by ear or an SPL meter.

You do have bass management options, and you can direct all, none or some bass, to your sub. If your speakers are on the small side, then you want to set the crossover about 80 to 100 Hz. Then go though the set up tones, each speaker in turn. This includes the sub. However in your situation you will be probably have to set the sub level be ear to get the amount of bass you are happy with. Since you sub is working at low level I would feel this is most likely a level setting issue, that you can put right by FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS in your manual.

 

[RynJax17]

I am not in your room. Go to your manual, and if you don't have it go on line, like I did. The settings you need and instructions for all the button pressings on the remote are described..

I would bet your sub is turned way down. As far as i can tell your receiver does not have a mic, but does have test tones. So you will need to set it by ear or an SPL meter.

You do have bass management options, and you can direct all, none or some bass, to your sub. If your speakers are on the small side, then you want to set the crossover about 80 to 100 Hz. Then go though the set up tones, each speaker in turn. This includes the sub. However in your situation you will be probably have to set the sub level be ear to get the amount of bass you are happy with. Since you sub is working at low level I would feel this is most l. ikely a level setting issue, that you can put right by FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS in your manual.

Thank you for all your recommendations i really appreciate it! so i did downloaded the manual and went through the speaker setup steps and it seemed to make an improvement. Performed the test tones increased the subwoofer level to +3dB and increased the SW Bass to +5 but still had to set the gain to half way up (set the SW crossover to the LFE setting). So all in all it is working now! I believe since my Kenwood receiver is on the old side that the sub-out voltage is greatly diminished or maybe that's just the way its supposed to function. Now connecting the sub to my Powered Fluance speakers Sub-out is a night and day difference the volts coming out of that sub-out is probably very boosted. The sub gain only needs to be set to 2-3 out of 11. I think i am due for a new stereo receiver anyway so i have my eyes set on the Marantaz NR1200 again thank you for all your help.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for all your recommendations i really appreciate it! so i did downloaded the manual and went through the speaker setup steps and it seemed to make an improvement. Performed the test tones increased the subwoofer level to +3dB and increased the SW Bass to +5 but still had to set the gain to half way up (set the SW crossover to the LFE setting). So all in all it is working now! I believe since my Kenwood receiver is on the old side that the sub-out voltage is greatly diminished or maybe that's just the way its supposed to function. Now connecting the sub to my Powered Fluance speakers Sub-out is a night and day difference the volts coming out of that sub-out is probably very boosted. The sub gain only needs to be set to 2-3 out of 11. I think i am due for a new stereo receiver anyway so i have my eyes set on the Marantaz NR1200 again thank you for all your help.

I think that sub out is working the way it is supposed to. Sometimes those units can change settings and have to be set up again.

If you are considering new equipment, then you have to consider what other equipment you have. The universe for all of this has literally shifted on it s axis since that receiver was made.
So you may need a lot more than just that receiver.

 

[RynJax17]

I think that sub out is working the way it is supposed to. Sometimes those units can change settings and have to be set up again.

If you are considering new equipment, then you have to consider what other equipment you have. The universe for all of this has literally shifted on it s axis since that receiver was made.
So you may need a lot more than just that receiver.

Your totally right new technology advancements with modern day audio equipment. The settings you said probably gets changed lets say if i use the Speaker EQ or Active EQ options to play around with the sound.

Oh yeah i plan on doing a complete overhaul with my audio system and updating to a new modern day system. Below is what is on my list for upgrades

. Marantz NR1200
. (2) MonoBlock Amps (Emotiva)
. Klipsch RP-8000F II (Tower speakers) or Focal Chora 826
. Bookshelf speakers for surrounds (Klipsch) o (Focal)
. Another 12inch Klipsch Subwoofer
. New DAC by Geshelli

 

[TLS Guy]

Your totally right new technology advancements with modern day audio equipment. The settings you said probably gets changed lets say if i use the Speaker EQ or Active EQ options to play around with the sound.

Oh yeah i plan on doing a complete overhaul with my audio system and updating to a new modern day system. Below is what is on my list for upgrades

. Marantz NR1200
. (2) MonoBlock Amps (Emotiva)
. Klipsch RP-8000F II (Tower speakers) or Focal Chora 826
. Bookshelf speakers for surrounds (Klipsch) o (Focal)
. Another 12inch Klipsch Subwoofer
. New DAC by Geshelli

I would avoid Emotiva, we have had members here have significant issues with them.

I would eliminate the Focal speakers, they have an impedance minimum of 2.8 ohms and adverse phase angles, and measure poorly. They have the hall marks of an incompetent design. I'm not over keen on Klipsch either, but they have a sound that has a following.

I don't know why you want a DAC when the receiver has one. There is a lot of nonsense and money wasted concerning DACs.

Speakers are the most difficult, and really are what determines how your system sounds. So they need picking with care. Totally ignore narrative reviews, which are in the main 100% BS.
So you need to put speakers that show good performance measurements from reliable sources. The world is awash in bad speakers, so you have to take care.

 

[Trebdp83]

Interesting ports, settings and terminals on that Kenwood. I haven't tinkered with a Kenwood since the 90's. According to the manual, many of the settings will be lost if unplugged for at least a day. If using only as a 2.1 system, there are a few settings to try. Turn OFF any and all EQs. Set the front speakers to LARGE and also turn ON SW RE-MIX. This works like Denon/Marantz' LFE + Main feature. Be sure to turn OFF all other speaker channels and leave it in Stereo mode. 96kHz LPCM is only available in Stereo mode. If the bass sounds off with these settings, switch the front speakers to Normal. Have fun with it but don't unplug it!

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting ports, settings and terminals on that Kenwood. I haven't tinkered with a Kenwood since the 90's. According to the manual, many of the settings will be lost if unplugged for at least a day. If using only as a 2.1 system, there are a few settings to try. Turn OFF any and all EQs. Set the front speakers to LARGE and also turn ON SW RE-MIX. This works like Denon/Marantz' LFE + Main feature. Be sure to turn OFF all other speaker channels and leave it in Stereo mode. 96kHz LPCM is only available in Stereo mode. If the bass sounds off with these settings, switch the front speakers to Normal. Have fun with it but don't unplug it!

Volatile memory was common back then. I would bet the unit has a NICAD battery to preserve the memory and it is now defunct, so settings are lost as soon as it is unplugged.

My Quad FM 4 tuners have NICAD batteries to keep the memory preserved while unplugged. I have had to replace those batteries on both my units, on one of them twice.

 

[RynJax17]

I would avoid Emotiva, we have had members here have significant issues with them.

I would eliminate the Focal speakers, they have an impedance minimum of 2.8 ohms and adverse phase angles, and measure poorly. They have the hall marks of an incompetent design. I'm not over keen on Klipsch either, but they have a sound that has a following.

I don't know why you want a DAC when the receiver has one. There is a lot of nonsense and money wasted concerning DACs.

Speakers are the most difficult, and really are what determines how your system sounds. So they need picking with care. Totally ignore narrative reviews, which are in the main 100% BS.
So you need to put speakers that show good performance measurements from reliable sources. The world is awash in bad speakers, so you have to take care.

Wow i am shocked! all i hear is good things about Emotiva products not just there power amps. What other external 2-channel or monoblocks would you suggest in the $1,000 range?

So the Focal towers are a no go for me as of yesterday anyway after doing some more research so i keep coming back to the Klipsch 8000F II many say they are an amazing speaker for the money especially if one listens to Heavy Psych Rock/Stoner Rock. i am open to other tower speaker suggestions. Budget would be $1,800 or less for a pair. Wish I could listen and demo all kinds of towers but cant so have to rely on reviews and youtube

Are external DAC's a snake oil product? always thought going separate is Better but the Marantz receiver probably already has a really good built in DAC

 

[RynJax17]

Interesting ports, settings and terminals on that Kenwood. I haven't tinkered with a Kenwood since the 90's. According to the manual, many of the settings will be lost if unplugged for at least a day. If using only as a 2.1 system, there are a few settings to try. Turn OFF any and all EQs. Set the front speakers to LARGE and also turn ON SW RE-MIX. This works like Denon/Marantz' LFE + Main feature. Be sure to turn OFF all other speaker channels and leave it in Stereo mode. 96kHz LPCM is only available in Stereo mode. If the bass sounds off with these settings, switch the front speakers to Normal. Have fun with it but don't unplug it!

Thank you for the suggestion! I am going to try these settings and see what the results are with my system. Currently all EQ presets are turned off but do have a +5dB for the subwoofer setting should i leave this setting or set it to 0?, speakers are set to Normal and SW-Remix set to OFF, running in Stereo mode

 

[RynJax17]

Thank you for the suggestion! I am going to try these settings and see what the results are with my system. Currently all EQ presets are turned off but do have a +5dB for the subwoofer setting should i leave this setting or set it to 0?, speakers are set to Normal and SW-Remix set to OFF, running in Stereo mode

Its just crazy that the volt output coming from my Fluance powered bookshelf sub-out to my 12inch Klipsch is excellent! the gain only needs to be set to 2-3 out of 11. With my old Kenwood receiver its the total opposite and i shouldnt have to go through a million steps just to make the sub have good bass. Like i said to another person on here is maybe that is just the way the sub-out functions on this kenwood or the sub-out port is malfunctioning hence the loss in output voltage?