TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Battery AND motor technology are changing rapidly. Lucid has cars capable of 500 mi range, however that is still extremely costly. So the capability is there, just need to bring the cost down. New battery chemistries and new types of motors are being developed to reduce the reliance on lithium and rare earth elements, so yes, within 5 years, things will improve and in 10 they will drastically change.

Hot swap batteries are another potential as it takes less than 10 minutes to swap and then you have a full charge. This is already in testing in Europe with the public and will likely become more common as it is easier to deploy than charging infrastructure. The "downside" to this is, you effectively lease the battery, you do not own it, but if it catches on, it will both minimize charging times and could eliminate range anxiety.

I don't know about other places, but chargers are popping up everywhere around me. I also looked at the tax credit. I was under the impression that if I got a refund, I would not be able to claim the credit. I read it again and it says if you claim it and get a refund, they will add the tax credit to your refund.
I'm a skeptic of the practicality of EVs for all.

Even if you swap the batteries those batteries will have to be shipped to and from a charging center. You won't move those batteries with an electric semi. Then there is handling on both ends, with a complex infrastructure for swapping the batteries and you won't lift them.

In the UK last summer I did a long journey in a KIA EV. It had a long range. The ride however was horrible, due to a bad sprung to unsprung weight ratio.

We hoped to charge at out hotel in the cathedral city of Wells in the Mendip Hills of Somerset.
The hotel had some charging stations, but they were all taken. This hotel that is little changed in 300 years, would not adapt to adding more and in any event is a listed building, so you can't touch it. On the way back on the M4 there were gas stations with rows of charging points, but they were all occupied. Luckily we got home just with the battery almost exhausted at the end of its 350 mile range.

The next issue if off street parking. The City if Minneapolis has already stated that they will not allow on street charging. That will exclude a vast number of homes from owning EVs.

In the UK the situation is worse, where vast numbers of row houses have no ability to park anywhere except the street. It is already policy not to allow on street charging. So probably more than half the population would be excluded from owning an EV, which they want to mandate. If we are not careful this will incite revolution.

So, I think we do have to have a liquid fuel source. EVs are not the answer, and will meet massive resistance from large populations.

There is now talk in the UK about replacing the bulk of the housing stock.

This has come about as there are insulation standards being introduced for rented property, in addition to the charging issue.
Now almost no UK homes are ducted and have hot water heat and no AC. Homes are being mandated to install heat pumps. The problem is that the UK is a damp climate. The lack of not being able to ventilate with the installation of heavy insulation, is causing a massive incidence of homes developing dangerous mold. So as I suspected UK homes need to be drafty!

So now landlords are claiming it will be cheaper to demolish and rebuild, than do the costly upgrades.

If you ask me this transition to net zero is going to take a hundred years at least.

One thing I am certain of is that we need more energy sources than just electricity. That won't fly. In any event losses of electricity in the distribution system are at least 30%. I bet they are higher from wind and solar farms.

The bottom line is that these government hopes and wishes are not being properly scaled or close to being thought through. Part of this is that as a whole we have a population almost totally ignorant on technical matters.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
I'm a skeptic of the practicality of EVs for all.

Even if you swap the batteries those batteries will have to be shipped to and from a charging center. You won't move those batteries with an electric semi. Then there is handling on both ends, with a complex infrastructure for swapping the batteries and you won't lift them.

In the UK last summer I did a long journey in a KIA EV. It had a long range. The ride however was horrible, due to a bad sprung to unsprung weight ratio.

We hoped to charge at out hotel in the cathedral city of Wells in the Mendip Hills of Somerset.
The hotel had some charging stations, but they were all taken. This hotel that is little changed in 300 years, would not adapt to adding more and in any event is a listed building, so you can't touch it. On the way back on the M4 there were gas stations with rows of charging points, but they were all occupied. Luckily we got home just with the battery almost exhausted at the end of its 350 mile range.

The next issue if off street parking. The City if Minneapolis has already stated that they will not allow on street charging. That will exclude a vast number of homes from owning EVs.

In the UK the situation is worse, where vast numbers of row houses have no ability to park anywhere except the street. It is already policy not to allow on street charging. So probably more than half the population would be excluded from owning an EV, which they want to mandate. If we are not careful this will incite revolution.

So, I think we do have to have a liquid fuel source. EVs are not the answer, and will meet massive resistance from large populations.

There is now talk in the UK about replacing the bulk of the housing stock.

This has come about as there are insulation standards being introduced for rented property, in addition to the charging issue.
Now almost no UK homes are ducted and have hot water heat and no AC. Homes are being mandated to install heat pumps. The problem is that the UK is a damp climate. The lack of not being able to ventilate with the installation of heavy insulation, is causing a massive incidence of homes developing dangerous mold. So as I suspected UK homes need to be drafty!

So now landlords are claiming it will be cheaper to demolish and rebuild, than do the costly upgrades.

If you ask me this transition to net zero is going to take a hundred years at least.

One thing I am certain of is that we need more energy sources than just electricity. That won't fly. In any event losses of electricity in the distribution system are at least 30%. I bet they are higher from wind and solar farms.

The bottom line is that these government hopes and wishes are not being properly scaled or close to being thought through. Part of this is that as a whole we have a population almost totally ignorant on technical matters.
So the hybrid vehicle would be the best compromise at the present time?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So the hybrid vehicle would be the best compromise at the present time?
Not at all.

I can tell you as an owner of two hybrid vehicles that the impact is minimal. We have had one hybrid since 2009 the other since 2019.

Town driving has the biggest impact and you gain about 20 to 25 % in mileage if you drive carefully. That is in the summer and in the winter the benefit is about halved. On the highway the benefit is about 10% improvement, but it is the the same in summer and winter.

I'm not convinced they are worth the expense for the gain.

The better approach will be synthetic fuels as proposed by the German motor industry.

Liquid fuels can power all vehicles including ships, planes and trucks.

In addition they will not require radical shifts in infrastructure. The same plants could supply the hydrogen for heating systems. That is a much more logical approach.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Not at all.

I can tell you as an owner of two hybrid vehicles that the impact is minimal. We have had one hybrid since 2009 the other since 2019.

Town driving has the biggest impact and you gain about 20 to 25 % in mileage if you drive carefully. That is in the summer and in the winter the benefit is about halved. On the highway the benefit is about 10% improvement, but it is the the same in summer and winter.

I'm not convinced they are worth the expense for the gain.

The better approach will be synthetic fuels as proposed by the German motor industry.

Liquid fuels can power all vehicles including ships, planes and trucks.

In addition they will not require radical shifts in infrastructure. The same plants could supply the hydrogen for heating systems. That is a much more logical approach.
I agree with hydrogen or synthetic fuels. How about nuclear fission?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree with hydrogen or synthetic fuels. How about nuclear fission?
We don't know that isn't a pipe dream. But nuclear energy will be required in large quantities to power the electrolyzers.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I agree with hydrogen or synthetic fuels. How about nuclear fission?
Speaking of long ways off. Sure, anything is possible, but even EV infrastructure will be tough to come by in our lifetimes. I don't think EVs are the solution for everyone, everywhere. It will be still a long time before it is mainstream. In bigger cities, where it is easier to adopt, I think it is viable. For long drives, we will be keeping the hybrid.

Many companies have ordered the Tesla Semi. So within their somewhat shorter range vs. diesel, the trucking industry may start to change. Again, that will take time and I think some of these big trucking companies are just trying it out to see if it is viable or not and they probably get some sort of clean air credits for it as well.

Synthetic fuel is the most likely candidate, but I don't see oil jumping behind it. So while it seems great, with only a few big backers, it will take it a while to take hold. Fuel cells - still not viable, infrastructure even more difficult to implement. Hyundai however is looking at Fuel Cell EV hybrids, something that might be a viable bridge between them. Heck, synthetic fuel hybrids could be that as well.

The infrastructure for me to have an EV HERE, where I live is very much in place. But I know from driving all over California, that there aren't many places as well setup to handle it outside of the larger metro areas. Last year during heat waves, EV owners were asked to only charge at night, off peak demand, so there are definitely other considerations. There isn't one solution that is going to work for everything.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Camera only, no rear window. In my price range :) I need to see that rear trunk though, there is not one image of it open lol. It is technically a sedan. Some will be built in the US, but not sure about the battery. I would guess they will try to meet the new US regulations and try to get at least 50% of the tax credit, but won't hit the US until next year.

 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
I like Mazdas approach of using a small Rotary engine to charge a smaller battery pack as you drive.....now, bring on the RX9 !!
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Camera only, no rear window. In my price range :) I need to see that rear trunk though, there is not one image of it open lol. It is technically a sedan. Some will be built in the US, but not sure about the battery. I would guess they will try to meet the new US regulations and try to get at least 50% of the tax credit, but won't hit the US until next year.

I hope that rear facing camera has a mini washer and wiper built in. I often have to clean the rear camera on our Jeep. Using a computer screen in front of you also eliminates the use of peripheral vision when looking behind you. Rear camera is great for parking, but when driving backwards you really need to turn your head around and face the rear of the vehicle to see everything around you.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I am not so sure no rear window is a great idea, but it is interesting. The camera getting dirty is definitely a concern and what about rain even? Mine stays fairly clean on my car amazingly, but the one on her car needs to be cleaned occasionally. I am sure the camera will utilize software to identify objects as well.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I get notifications on the Tesla frequently about cameras being blocked or blinded. Sometimes I check when I get to my destination to find nothing wrong that I can identify.
In theory, its a great approach having the cameras, but it isn't foolproof.
I used the rear camera on my old CRV to great effect when reversing. I think this is the biggest problem, though, with modern car design: rear visibility is atrocious!
Sadly, the cameras don't do everything you wish they could, and the idea of being able to drive by camera is still limited. Tesla shows you your blindspots when you turn on your blinker, but that "forces" your eyes off the road. Their side mirrors are also smaller than anything I've driven before.

It's a very interesting paradigm shift we are in the middle of. I would hope that these features improve much more over the next few years and that existing technology can be upgraded through the update process.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
actually since this is an 'EV' thread I believe just the opposite true, less stuff to break than a comparable ICE !
Good point. Maybe that's why they had to add other things that could break? Like having a camera instead of a rear windshield.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
This...
But more software issues to deal with. ;)
With how rushed software is now, no way I'd want a vehicle that's totally controlled by it. Sure, I have an ECM in my truck that controls a lot, but nothing on the level of what EVs can do, or even what my wife's 2015 durango can do.

New vehicles are slick, but I deal with software issues enough to want to have to deal with them in my vehicles too.

I am very eager to see what progresses out of what's being released now, to what we'll see in EVs in 5-10 years.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
With how rushed software is now, no way I'd want a vehicle that's totally controlled by it. Sure, I have an ECM in my truck that controls a lot, but nothing on the level of what EVs can do, or even what my wife's 2015 durango can do.

New vehicles are slick, but I deal with software issues enough to want to have to deal with them in my vehicles too.

I am very eager to see what progresses out of what's being released now, to what we'll see in EVs in 5-10 years.
I'm still new to the Tesla Ecosystem. So far, so good. ...But read an interesting article today about the Vision Park Assist.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
actually since this is an 'EV' thread I believe just the opposite true, less stuff to break than a comparable ICE !
Less stuff to break, but much harder and more expensive to fix. You need a tech AND a software guy now. We joked with one of our friends that his Tesla spent as much time on the flatbed as the road. Because when you have an issue with an EV, it is usually going to leave you stuck and you can only flatbed them.
 

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