First seperates: Marantz 7706 - Parasound A51

[Swerd]

Anyone knows if the Paradigm Prestige's tweeter is still sounding harsh, when using a Parasound A51?

If a tweeter, or any other driver sounds harsh, it will sound harsh with any amplifier. It is a widely repeated MYTH that different amps or receivers can alter a speaker's sound.

Whoever told you that myth should be ignored. Similarly, you should avoid reading any audio magazine or online review that repeats nonsense like that, because they are likely to repeat other audio myths and falsehoods.

The only exception might be an amp that lacks so much high frequency response that the tweeter cannot be heard as well. No one should ever buy such an amp. That includes most vacuum tube amps because they lack significant high frequency response.

 

[Erkan1976]

If a tweeter, or any other driver sounds harsh, it will sound harsh with any amplifier. It is a widely repeated MYTH that different amps or receivers can alter a speaker's sound.

Whoever told you that myth should be ignored. Similarly, you should avoid reading any audio magazine or online review because they are likely to repeat other audio myths and falsehoods.

The only exception might be an amp that lacks so much high frequency response that the tweeter cannot be heard as well. No one should buy such an amp. That includes most vacuum tube amps because they lack significant high frequency response.

You're right, but it's hard not to hear or read those info, if i have to read or see information about hifi because of the lack of knowledge I have lmao

 

[Erkan1976]

The Netherlands? Can I assume that you have looked at Arendal? Highly rated on the forums, or are the used Paradigms that much less expensive? Considering how much you spent on your electronics, most here tend to budget more for speakers which have the biggest impact on sound. A pair of THX towers from Arendal would sound awesome with that pre/pro and amp combination and they offer a full selection of surrounds too.

Hey Eppie,
I looked into The Arendal 1723 THX Speakers and watched Jay's iyagi's YouTube video:

Saw some comments under that video, where people said they never thought they would change their brand of speakers. That says a lot!
I'm not in a hurry buying them and will wait a few months hopefully for a sale at their website

 

[everettT]

Anyone knows if the Paradigm Prestige's tweeter is still sounding harsh, when using a Parasound A51?

The frequency response of that speaker will give that high frequency more energy then the midrange, nothing to do with the amp.

That's a heck of a rising swing.

 

[Swerd]

The frequency response of that speaker will give that high frequency more energy then the midrange, nothing to do with the amp.
View attachment 60685
That's a heck of a rising swing.

Thanks for posting that frequency response curve. I agree, it's a heck of a rising swing.

That figure is taken from a December 2015 Stereophile review Paradigm Prestige 95F speakers. Our friend in the Netherlands says he's interested in the Prestige 85F, the smaller brother of the 95F. They look to be similar designs, but the 95F has 8" (203 mm) woofers & mid-woofer, and the 85F has 6½" (165 mm) drivers. It is possible that they share the same tweeter. The 95F is a 2½-way speaker, where all three of its 8" drivers operate in the bass. The two lower woofers roll off above 400Hz, while the topmost 8" cone, operates as a mid-woofer, continues alone up to 2kHz, where it hands off to the tweeter. The 85F speaker, also a 2½-way design, has crossover frequencies at 500Hz and 2kHz.

That same review also showed this frequency response curve where the green trace shows the responses of the three 8" woofers, and the red trace shows the response of the tweeter. The blue trace shows the port responses.

I see 3 peaks and I'm troubled by 2 of them. They are not what I'd like to see in a smooth sounding speaker. Do they indicate tweeter harshness?

1. Between 600 and 1,000 Hz, the green trace drops and then rises rapidly to a peak between 1000 and 2000 Hz. Depending on the music and volume level, I think that peak could be heard. Because that is coming from the 8" mid-woofer, I wonder if that is cone breakup resonance. If so, that might be perceived as unwanted noise, or harshness. The peak is a high enough frequency for listeners to mistakenly blame the tweeter. That's in the larger 95F speaker. Would we see something similar with the 6½" mid-woofer in the 85F? Perhaps not. I'd prefer to see a frequency response graph.
   
   
2. The red trace from the tweeter shows a broad rising response above 3,000 Hz. It peaks between about 5,000 and 13,000 Hz. That might be heard as brightness, but I don't know if it would sound harsh. Above 5,000 Hz, there is much less much less content in most music. If this tweeter of the 95F is the same as in the 85F, it could be trouble.
   
   
3. There is a sharp peak above 20,000 Hz. That is common to metal dome tweeters, and I'm not concerned about it. It's not audible.

 

[Erkan1976]

Thanks for posting that frequency response curve. I agree, it's a heck of a rising swing.

That figure is taken from a December 2015 Stereophile review Paradigm Prestige 95F speakers. Our friend in the Netherlands says he's interested in the Prestige 85F, the smaller brother of the 95F. They look to be similar designs, but the 95F has 8" (203 mm) woofers & mid-woofer, and the 85F has 6½" (165 mm) drivers. It is possible that they share the same tweeter. The 95F is a 2½-way speaker, where all three of its 8" drivers operate in the bass. The two lower woofers roll off above 400Hz, while the topmost 8" cone, operates as a mid-woofer, continues alone up to 2kHz, where it hands off to the tweeter. The 85F speaker, also a 2½-way design, has crossover frequencies at 500Hz and 2kHz.

That same review also showed this frequency response curve where the green trace shows the responses of the three 8" woofers, and the red trace shows the response of the tweeter. The blue trace shows the port responses.
View attachment 60686
I see 3 peaks and I'm troubled by 2 of them. They are not what I'd like to see in a smooth sounding speaker. Do they indicate tweeter harshness?

1. Between 600 and 1,000 Hz, the green trace drops and then rises rapidly to a peak between 1000 and 2000 Hz. Depending on the music and volume level, I think that peak could be heard. Because that is coming from the 8" mid-woofer, I wonder if that is cone breakup resonance. If so, that might be perceived as unwanted noise, or harshness. The peak is a high enough frequency for listeners to mistakenly blame the tweeter. That's in the larger 95F speaker. Would we see something similar with the 6½" mid-woofer in the 85F? Perhaps not. I'd prefer to see a frequency response graph.
   
   
2. The red trace from the tweeter shows a broad rising response above 3,000 Hz. It peaks between about 5,000 and 13,000 Hz. That might be heard as brightness, but I don't know if it would sound harsh. Above 5,000 Hz, there is much less much less content in most music. If this tweeter of the 95F is the same as in the 85F, it could be trouble.
   
   
3. There is a sharp peak above 20,000 Hz. That is common to metal dome tweeters, and I'm not concerned about it. It's not audible.

When I first listened to the Prestige 95F's, I felt like the sound was indeed a bit bright.
Have no experience hearing other speakers and had a misconception of my Parasound could smoothen that out a little. I realised yesterday these are probably not my best choice.
So i heared a lot about the Arendal speakers. Many awesome reviews of them, but a little concerned about their soundstage.
So i have another beautiful speaker in mind now and can get them at a good price....
The Martin Logan's Motion 60XTI

 

[lovinthehd]

Have you seen this about the latest ML speakers? https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/martinlogan-motion-xt

 

[Erkan1976]

Have you seen this about the latest ML speakers? https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/martinlogan-motion-xt

No I haven't watched the video before, until now.... Luckily for me I haven't bought the 60XTI yet.
But new isn't always better....we'll see after April, when the f100's will be available.
Compared to XTI60's which one will be better

 

[PENG]

When I first listened to the Prestige 95F's, I felt like the sound was indeed a bit bright.
Have no experience hearing other speakers and had a misconception of my Parasound could smoothen that out a little. I realised yesterday these are probably not my best choice.
So i heared a lot about the Arendal speakers. Many awesome reviews of them, but a little concerned about their soundstage.
So i have another beautiful speaker in mind now and can get them at a good price....
The Martin Logan's Motion 60XTI

In that case, keep in mind full range tower speakers are heavy and big to return, so in your future reseach for speakers more suited to your taste (that are not "bright sounding", I suggest you pay attention to reviews that come with measurements only, such as those by the following reviewers:

ShadyJ of Audioholics
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part I | Audioholics
Example: Paradigm Founder 100F and 70LCR Measurements & Conclusion | Audioholics

J. Akinson of Stereophile
Example: Paradigm Persona 5F loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Amir of Audiosciencereview
Example: Revel F328Be Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Another site that has a lot of measurements is:
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - Loudspeakers
Example: SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: KEF Reference 3 Loudspeakers

Stereophile normally comes with measurements but they also have a lot of subjective reviews; and you should focus on measurements and ignore (to a point..) JA's subjective comments, as even JA knows where his paychecks come from.

Lastly, you probably should also take a read on some of Dr. Floyd Toole's articles and/or online comments such as the following:

Post#297
What is your favorite house curve | Page 15 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#291
What is your favorite house curve | Page 15 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#256
What is your favorite house curve | Page 13 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#265
What is your favorite house curve | Page 14 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[PENG]

When I first listened to the Prestige 95F's, I felt like the sound was indeed a bit bright.

Depending on your room and placement it may not be as bright as indicated by those curves.
Also, since you have the 7706 that has Audyssey XT32 SubEQ HT, and is compatible with the $20 App, you can tame the brightness easily, but you have to know what you are doing and have the patience to tweak with the app.

 

[Erkan1976]

In that case, keep in mind full range tower speakers are heavy and big to return, so in your future reseach for speakers more suited to your taste (that are not "bright sounding", I suggest you pay attention to reviews that come with measurements only, such as those by the following reviewers:

ShadyJ of Audioholics
Understanding Loudspeaker Review Measurements Part I | Audioholics
Example: Paradigm Founder 100F and 70LCR Measurements & Conclusion | Audioholics

J. Akinson of Stereophile
Example: Paradigm Persona 5F loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Amir of Audiosciencereview
Example: Revel F328Be Speaker Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Another site that has a lot of measurements is:
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - Loudspeakers
Example: SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: KEF Reference 3 Loudspeakers

Stereophile normally comes with measurements but they also have a lot of subjective reviews; and you should focus on measurements and ignore (to a point..) JA's subjective comments, as even JA knows where his paychecks come from.

Lastly, you probably should also take a read on some of Dr. Floyd Toole's articles and/or online comments such as the following:

Post#297
What is your favorite house curve | Page 15 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#291
What is your favorite house curve | Page 15 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#256
What is your favorite house curve | Page 13 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Post#265
What is your favorite house curve | Page 14 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

Thanks for sharing those. I'm not in a hurry buying my new speakers, so all the help I can get, in getting more understanding of how speakers work, is highly appreciated! Thank you

 

[Erkan1976]

Seen it in videos and pictures before, but can't believe what a monster amp this is, when you see it in real life.
So happy with my first piece of the puzzle

 

[PENG]

Seen it in videos and pictures before, but can't believe what a monster amp this is, when you see it in real life.
So happy with my first piece of the puzzleView attachment 60732

Also can't believe the big monster and the tiny monster amps can sound the same in a blind test:

I got rid of it, as well as my Bryston amp in favor of more real estate, loss of weight but no loss of sound quality and output power.

Anway, congrats to your new toy! Been there, done that.

 

[Swerd]

@Erkan1976

Your Parasound amp is a tried and tested design, powerful and reliable. As you already know, it's very heavy and expensive. However, it should be able to drive any speaker you may choose.

I was glad to see PENG's comments. I respect his knowledge and agree with his opinions. He, among others, alerted me to the advantages of newer class D amplifier designs – such as the Hypex NCore and Purifi designs – all the work of Bruno Putzeys, also a Dutchman. I'm not looking to buy a new amp now, but it's good information to know for the future.

Good luck in your speaker search! Please keep in touch with us at AH.

 

[Erkan1976]

Thanks for all the reactions and help..... And Peng, i know it can always be better btw...
I will look into that App you mentioned! Thanks.
Yesterday I made a decision by buying the Martin Logan Motion XTI60'S and 50XTI Center.
Very happy with my purchase

 

[renardanderson]

If you wire the speakers to the receiver's speaker Nox Vidmate VLC terminals, it will drive the speakers. If you wire the speakers to the external amp's terminals, the amp drives the speakers. But in your case, you have only one choice.