New Dedicated home theater suggestions

U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Hi! Completely new to home theater been doing as much research as possible but honestly at the point of stress now since I have a contractor about to finish my home theater room.

Hope to get suggestions on equipment.

Budget: ~25-30k for screen and audio, 10k for seating
Room: dedicated 14'x25' room with 9' ceiling, no Windows
Like: mostly clarity in sounds with decent bass but not over posting
Wanting a 7.2.4 Atmos setup

So far a local company is suggesting:
b&w 7.4lrcs for the front 3 speakers and in wall
4 B&w CWM7.5S2 for 4 in wall
4 B&w CCM663 for in ceiling
Anthem mrx 1140
JBL Synthesis SDA 7120 amp to add power to in walls
2 reva HT/1205 MKII Subwoofer
16:9 StudioTek 130G4 acoustically transparent screen
Thinking Valencia Tuscany xl seating

Just looking for thoughts and suggestions or alternatives - allot of money and want as much input as possible. Seriously appreciate any help.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There is a LOT of profit in B&W speakers. I would have a really hard time using them at all if they aren't the 801/802 type of speakers with their gorgeous woodwork. Their in-wall speakers are hardly a bargain, and frankly, don't sound that much better, or at all better, than competing models at a much lower price. I do like their CWM7.4 models as a solid upper class speaker, but I would likely not go B&W at all.

I would be looking at a model like this to consider as a option.

I will say that I just installed some Sonos/Sonance speakers in a client's home. I was really upset at the VERY high price and relatively uninspired quality of the speakers. They literally cost over four times as much as better sounding Monoprice speakers, and do NOT sound as good. Crazy.

Similarly, there are tons of good amps on the market which are much more reasonably priced which sound exceptional.

I tend to lean more towards more subwoofer being a good thing, but the pricing of the subwoofer at least isn't outrageous.
A model like this gets more extension and hits at a solid price point.
I do like that whoever came by did push towards a different subwoofer than the main speaker manufacturer.

I am rather unimpressed with the $4,000+ price point of the receiver. AV receivers change technology every few years and paying a ton for a technology that will be outdated in 3-4 years is really tough to swallow. I would lean towards a Marantz 7.2.4 preamp (or receiver) that I could pair to 11 channels of amplification for the room.

The Stewart screens are amazing. They really deliver on the high side of quality. There is simply nothing better. Next up I would likely go to a Seymour AV screen. I'm not going to complain about the Stewart, but I would VERY MUCH insist upon knowing how far away seating is. Quite often screens are a bit smaller than what most would consider actually enjoyable long term.
The screen size depends on viewing distance in the room. It will also play into the projector which will be used. Good to know that information.
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
There is a LOT of profit in B&W speakers. I would have a really hard time using them at all if they aren't the 801/802 type of speakers with their gorgeous woodwork. Their in-wall speakers are hardly a bargain, and frankly, don't sound that much better, or at all better, than competing models at a much lower price. I do like their CWM7.4 models as a solid upper class speaker, but I would likely not go B&W at all.

I would be looking at a model like this to consider as a option.

I will say that I just installed some Sonos/Sonance speakers in a client's home. I was really upset at the VERY high price and relatively uninspired quality of the speakers. They literally cost over four times as much as better sounding Monoprice speakers, and do NOT sound as good. Crazy.

Similarly, there are tons of good amps on the market which are much more reasonably priced which sound exceptional.

I tend to lean more towards more subwoofer being a good thing, but the pricing of the subwoofer at least isn't outrageous.
A model like this gets more extension and hits at a solid price point.
I do like that whoever came by did push towards a different subwoofer than the main speaker manufacturer.

I am rather unimpressed with the $4,000+ price point of the receiver. AV receivers change technology every few years and paying a ton for a technology that will be outdated in 3-4 years is really tough to swallow. I would lean towards a Marantz 7.2.4 preamp (or receiver) that I could pair to 11 channels of amplification for the room.

The Stewart screens are amazing. They really deliver on the high side of quality. There is simply nothing better. Next up I would likely go to a Seymour AV screen. I'm not going to complain about the Stewart, but I would VERY MUCH insist upon knowing how far away seating is. Quite often screens are a bit smaller than what most would consider actually enjoyable long term.
The screen size depends on viewing distance in the room. It will also play into the projector which will be used. Good to know that information.

Thank you for your reply! Your feedback is exactly what I was looking for. A couple of follow-up questions:

For the monolith would you do the in wall LCRS for the front speakers? Or their towers?

Will look at the SVS for subs

Any amps or brands you recommend? I'm leaning towards separates as well.

I think your right with Stewart, just feels crazy to spend 5k for fabric but I get it. I'm actually going to try and do the largest screen I can on my wall which will probably be about 155" diagonal. The seats will be roughly 13.6' to the first row and 19.6' to the second row. What are your thoughts on the screen size?
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
On the sub front also check out Monolith's offerings, as well as the rest of the usual bunch, Hsu, Rythmik, PSA, etc....Rel wouldn't even be on my list (or B&W for that matter).
 
M

mx416

Audioholic
Hi Ultrasurge,

What a fun topic! I do not have the experience of some of the folks on here. However, what i have learned says an in-wall speaker should have an enclosure.

I think some thing like the perlisten r5 in wall makes a lot more sense.

 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
On the sub front also check out Monolith's offerings, as well as the rest of the usual bunch, Hsu, Rythmik, PSA, etc....Rel wouldn't even be on my list (or B&W for that matter).
Awesome, thanks! Didn't know any of those brands - have a lot of homework
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
Hi Ultrasurge,

What a fun topic! I do not have the experience of some of the folks on here. However, what i have learned says an in-wall speaker should have an enclosure.

I think some thing like the perlisten r5 in wall makes a lot more sense.

Appreciate it! Any good links to enclosure builds? I had no idea about the enclosure, good thing there are no walls yet! I'll take a look at perlisten r5, I thought they were all out of my price range!
 
M

mx416

Audioholic
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Perlisten would be very nice for speakers/subs, but it is pricey.
 
W

Wardog555

Full Audioholic
Does it need to be in wall speakers? I find they dont have the same quality as regular bookshelves.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I would also look at Triad Speakers.

Triad is a Portland-based company that hand builds speakers in just about every configuration you can imagine. They will even color match the speakers and grills to match the paint on your walls. In addition to InRoom speakers, Triad has In-Wall and angled InCeiling speakers and subwoofers that work amazingly well for spaces in which you have no floor space, or when you wish to hide the speakers from view. The company has speakers in many different price ranges, starting at $300 per speaker.

While not a household name, Triad is a favorite of custom installers and has won numerous industry awards. The company is also a development partner for Dolby, helping to design speaker systems for immersive audio. Most recently, Triad Gold Monitor speakers won Best of Show at the 2019 CEDIA Expo in Denver. How Triad's Are Built:
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If possible, might also think about in-ceiling subwoofers to maximize your in-room space. Also won’t have to worry about little kids messing with your big in-room subs. :D

So all your speakers and subs would be in-wall and in-ceiling.

Your equipment (other than PJ) will be outside the room?
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
If possible, might also think about in-ceiling subwoofers to maximize your in-room space. Also won’t have to worry about little kids messing with your big in-room subs. :D

So all your speakers and subs would be in-wall and in-ceiling.

Your equipment (other than PJ) will be outside the room?

The more I read half of everyone says in wall are interior to a bookshelf or tower or standalone sub, has that changed over time with the new equipment? Should I try to avoid in wall? Ive been looking on forums for someone who actually has like a in wall monolith setup but I can't find anyone

Yes the rack and equipment will be outside of the room
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Thank you for your reply! Your feedback is exactly what I was looking for. A couple of follow-up questions:

For the monolith would you do the in wall LCRS for the front speakers? Or their towers?

Will look at the SVS for subs

Any amps or brands you recommend? I'm leaning towards separates as well.

I think your right with Stewart, just feels crazy to spend 5k for fabric but I get it. I'm actually going to try and do the largest screen I can on my wall which will probably be about 155" diagonal. The seats will be roughly 13.6' to the first row and 19.6' to the second row. What are your thoughts on the screen size?
Please keep in mind this is your space, doesn't impact my life at all, and my statements are just some guy talking on the internet. I can be very opinionated. :D

I'm going to start with some questions that always pop into my mind first, and do matter...
I am assuming this is a dedicated theater room.
What are the room dimensions? Those of us with a more audio-centric mentality (which is not me) may make some more, and frankly better, suggestions for audio than I will. I like good audio, but I'm more practical and don't strive for absolute best sound, but like great value sound for the money. There are some who can spend all of your money and give you better audio than the Monoprice models. There are also those who HATE in-wall speakers, so you gotta pick your poison with those guys.

If the room is large enough, pushing it out a bit, or working behind it will full size tower speakers with a AT screen is a great option. I've done that in a few rooms over the years and it is spectacular for sound. I have used Stewart, but one of my favorites are the models from Seymour AV. They are a fair bit more money than the surprisingly well reviewed models from Silver Ticket. I have used Silver Ticket screens with JVC projectors and they look shockingly good. Proving a good room plus a good projector is far more impactful than a great room and a great screen with a weak projector.

If given the choice between in-walls and towers, I would do towers, and I wouldn't necessarily go with MP speakers. Monoprice is great, but there are some very good and well priced options out there.

I will say, that if you aren't doing the full installation yourself, you may be limited on who you can use for the installation work, and you should expect, at some level, to pay some markup on whatever you get. It's how these places stay in business. Still, you can go in with some speakers, or cut out a 'huge expense' from the system and they will still be happy. Labor is a category that I think is often under-valued in these installs and they make up for it with high margins on equipment sold, which doesn't have as much actual value to you.

So, besides room dimensions, which people here can give you better numbers and options on for filling the room properly and with great quality...
What projector do you intend to use? I'm assuming a JVC, because not JVC is - questionable. Unless you go up to a Christie Griffin. (3-DLP awesomeness)

With a 12'-18' viewing distance, I would consider a 150" diagonal 16:9 screen the sweet spot for size. Front row viewers get excellent immersion for a truly theater-like feel, while back row viewers won't feel so far away from the screen . It also gives enough size without overwhelming most projectors on the market. You don't want the image to be overly dim. I think in the next 5-10 years we will see more projectors come to the market with better peak brightness to help with HDR content, but right now, they aren't as bright as the world would like them to be. But, they are brighter than they were a decade ago.

I will add this now...

Theater colors matter a great deal Dark carpet, dark walls, dark ceiling - GET IT RIGHT! So many really good looking home theaters feature 'light colors', which doesn't match up to any movie theater you've been to in your life. A splash of color is great. But, if you want to add something cool, do so with LED lighting which can be powered off, and won't detract from the experience. Be aware of dark fabric wall coverings like Adamantanium ( http://cine4home.de/test-und-know-how-special-schwarze-heimkino-optimierungen-welche-adamantium-stoffe-eignen-sich-am-besten/ ) which is something I would give serous thought to for best image quality.

Get your lights figured out properly. If you are building a 'dark theater', then to light it up like your family room, which IS something you will want to do at some point, you will want DOUBLE the number of lights of a typical room that is painted white with white ceilings and light colored carpet. You want one row of spotlights over each row of seating, plus general room lighting. Spotlights allow you to turn some lights on in the room for eating, or even reading, while having minimal impact on the screen. Then there should be 'general' room lighting using typical BR30 style flood lights. These will light the room from corner to corner allowing easy entry and exit.
Because the room soaks up light, doubling the room lighting allows for you to crank them up and really see what's going on, but most of the time they will be dimmed to about 50% or so for general entry/exit.
I have some photos of how room lighting impacts things here: http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html

It would be super helpful if you could take some photos of your space, as well as make a drawing (if you don't have one already) of the room and the dimensions so that better information can be provided. Please keep in mind I'm a projector guy first. A speaker guy is a distant second for me. So, listen to what others have to say on that subject.

Make sure either 14 gauge or 12 gauge cabling is pulled to all speaker locations. I usually use 14/4 cabling as it is easier to work with, and I can double up wiring which is nice.
Make sure you have conduit, or a reasonably accessible raceway in place to the projector location for HDMI cabling. HDMI didn't exit 20 years ago, at some point, it won't exist in the future. So, plan for the future by putting in 1.5" flexible conduit from the main equipment location.
Get the equipment out of the room and use a good universal remote to run the show. The heat and noise of equipment should be as removed from the room as possible.

I will think of other things that are worth throwing into the mix before drywall goes up, but those are the first items. I will say that people not doing the lighting right is a huge pet peeve of mine. Wall sconces and LED strip highlights are awesome, but not important to the the room, they are the flair to make it look cool.

FINAL NOTE: I did not read anyone else's responses before I wrote this. There are good recommendations (IMO) about brands like Triad which seem to be well respected for an in-wall speaker that is in a back box to help get audio quality as good as possible. While going to towers up front would be my preference, it's not always possible, and sticking with in-walls for surrounds and ceilings often makes a TON of sense because having those stick out into a room can be problematic in different spaces. So, above recommendations and added information is all spot on.

Give us room dimensions, height, width, depth, along with a few drawings. And tell me what projector you're looking at.
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
The more I read half of everyone says in wall are interior to a bookshelf or tower or standalone sub, has that changed over time with the new equipment? Should I try to avoid in wall? Ive been looking on forums for someone who actually has like a in wall monolith setup but I can't find anyone

Yes the rack and equipment will be outside of the room
While IW speakers have advanced, the short answer is in room speakers are still a better performance choice. Also, can’t think of any IW or IC subwoofers worth a darn. Not sure what ADTG was thinking lol.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In terms of AVR, amps, and speakers, what are YOUR experiences in the past?

Which AVR and amps have you used?
 
U

ultrasurge

Enthusiast
In terms of AVR, amps, and speakers, what are YOUR experiences in the past?

Which AVR and amps have you used?

I've never had avr or amp before . Best I have is a Sonos system on my qled TV, this is really a first for me.

I've heard a b&w system at a store here and a JBL system too
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
While IW speakers have advanced, the short answer is in room speakers are still a better performance choice. Also, can’t think of any IW or IC subwoofers worth a darn. Not sure what ADTG was thinking lol.
And this is based on what proof? Objective Measurements? Subjective opinions?

Have you heard in-ceiling subs like the RBH SI-1010 and especially SI-1212 subs? They use similar 12” drivers to the RBH SX/SV-1212 subs.

Have you listened to well designed in-wall systems?

I am sure @gene can tell you more about them.

Gene and others like @TLS Guy and @shadyJ can tell you more about well designed in-wall speakers.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
And this is based on what proof? Objective Measurements? Subjective opinions?

Have you heard in-ceiling subs like the RBH SI-1010 and especially SI-1212 subs? They use similar 12” drivers to the RBH SX/SV-1212 subs.

Have you listened to well designed in-wall systems?

I am sure @gene can tell you more about them.

Gene and others like @TLS Guy and @shadyJ can tell you more about well designed in-wall speakers.
Yep. Based on experience, measurements and subjective opinions.
 

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