Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[cpp]

My point all along has been that this is a problem with people and some have crapped all over me for that idea. If bad people weren't so GD willing to kill at the drop of a hat, we wouldn't have these problems.

That is so very true. I get the Orlando local news, and each day there is a shooting or more somewhere around that area. It's the mentality, if you don't do what I want, I'll kill you".

Like this one yesterday " Witnesses told Channel 9 that the shooting began as a fight between roommates about one of them inviting too many guests over to their apartment. ". WTF is wrong with people.

 

[highfigh]

As far as your Constitutional problems, and reasons for change. I really think it's an impossible problem that can't or won't change, while you have moneyed people running the country. It seems that the rich and very rich get to govern the vote regardless of any qualifications they might have Just look at nut's like Trump, who will run again, and buy himself into power. I'm glad we don't have to suffer his stupidity I own a couple of Hyundai cars I have a Lantra GLS sports, and a E-Lantra GL 5 door auto, Why do I have two cars , simple, I blew the clutch a week before Christmas on the GLS. And promised myself I would never be trapped again without a car. My X got the Range Rover as a going away gift. I think I miss the RR more. But cars being cars there's always some fool wanting to take on the police in a race to see who's the better driver. Just check on the link below. What the news doesn't tell you is the driver of the Audi R8 was an active drug dealer, and a banned driver. And frankly he got what he deserved The only people that can afford such high performance cars are in the drug trade. https://7news.com.au/news/nsw/cousins-identified-as-victims-of-fiery-fatal-crash-on-sydney-m4-motorway-c-9550869

I think the illegal guns could be found and taken, but again, the warrants for search & seizure will need to be 'bulletproof', as they say (no way to void them).

Unfortunately, members of our Congress have made it possible for people to pay them large sums of money as a way to influence legislation. That needed to stop long ago, but hey, they would be taking money out of their own pockets, so what motivation would they have? They need to be reminded, harshly, that they work for us, not the other way around. If the voters don't do anything, this can't change.

Go ahead and buy as many cars as you want- nobody should say anything about it, although if you decide to move to the US (some places are actually very nice), avoid any place that has an HOA (Home Owner's Association). They're usually just a bunch of vile busybodies who want to control people and some embezzle funds. I refer to these as 'Hoard Of A$$holes'.

Your comment about the Rage Rover is similar to some of the bumper stickers I have seen- "My ex took the dog and boy, do I miss that dog". Car, house or anything else can be substituted for the dog.

 

[Trell]

Yeah......I guess you missed the info that the kid had made comments about burning the teacher and watching. People knew he could go off and family members went to the school with him, but not on that day. He seems to have planned this- not sure how the gun, by itself, caused it. Someone made this possible- we need to find out who. Also, they need to finish investigating the school staff because someone was told about the possibility that he might have a gun.

I haven't seen the video, but the teacher has been interviewed.

I guess you missed that my reply was a sarcasm.

Since you claim that the number of guns available to the public is not the cause of the extremely high US gun deaths and blame mental illness, you must mean that USA has a large part of the population that are violent mental nut cases? The land of violent mental freaks and weirdos?

That is, of course, not true, but that don’t stop people pushing that lie so they can keep their guns as well as not owning up to their own role in this.

 

[Trell]

That is so very true. I get the Orlando local news, and each day there is a shooting or more somewhere around that area. It's the mentality, if you don't do what I want, I'll kill you".

Like this one yesterday " Witnesses told Channel 9 that the shooting began as a fight between roommates about one of them inviting too many guests over to their apartment. ". WTF is wrong with people.

WTF do they have guns in the first place?

 

[cpp]

WTF do they have guns in the first place?

In our country, people can get guns even if they were banned. So many illegal guns come in, from everywhere. This guy could have very well, stabbed his roommate or beat him to death with a bat or a frying pan.. Idiots can get a gun, or kill these days for stupid reasons. In this case, he had a gun. When you have 331 million people running around and who knows what the illegal count is, someone is going to go rambo on someone else.

Another recent story in VA. Man accused of kidnapping woman, burning her with torch. I mean sicko's, guns not needed.

 

[highfigh]

I guess you missed that my reply was a sarcasm.

Since you claim that the number of guns available to the public is not the cause of the extremely high US gun deaths and blame mental illness, you must mean that USA has a large part of the population that are violent mental nut cases? The land of violent mental freaks and weirdos?

That is, of course, not true, but that don’t stop people pushing that lie so they can keep their guns as well as not owning up to their own role in this.

Put < and > on the ends if you want to show sarcasm. Or, pick your own.

WRT "you must mean that USA has a large part of the population that are violent mental nut cases? The land of violent mental freaks and weirdos?"- that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Mental illness has a huge stigma here and that needs to stop. People don't always want to ask for help, family members don't want to admit it to themselves or anyone else, although some ask, families care enough to get help. The ones that are dangerous are coddled by friends and family members to the point where they're left to live on their own in any conditions, with or without access to guns.

This country is effed up- I don't know how you could have missed that in posts from me and others. The Federal government cut funding for mental health when Reagan was in the White House and nobody has fixed that. All the Republicans do is act like they think they're heroes and the Democrats point their bony finger at the Republicans, tell the public what they need and both parties lie, cheat and steal their way to personal wealth. Oh, and they stay in office long after they lose any real or imagined usefulness.

 

[highfigh]

WTF do they have guns in the first place?

It's easy to say "If you live in a place that's unsafe, just move" but some people can't afford to move and they have no other place to go. Some can't even afford to pay rent with assistance from a government program and with the rise in corporate-owned rental units, which I am absolutely opposed to, rent prices have risen to the point where it costs less to own a house. That's great, but many people have no credit rating or they have a bad rating, so they would need a large down payment. Then, there's homeowner's insurance and no lender will consider a loan without insurance because if it's damaged or a total loss, they don't want to be left with a damaged or destroyed. They also won't lend money without PMI (Personal Mortgage Insurance) if the borrower can't make a 20% down payment. Fortunately for some, programs are available to help.

More new gun purchasers are members of a minority because they don't feel safe either, and it sucks. People should be able to live their lives without being attacked but a large segment of the population disagree, strongly.

 

[GO-NAD!]

My point all along has been that this is a problem with people and some have crapped all over me for that idea. If bad people weren't so GD willing to kill at the drop of a hat, we wouldn't have these problems.

You feel crapped on, because you keep repeating the same theory about the disproportional amount of gun violence in the US. While the societal conditions that lead to violence - including gun violence - vary from country to country, the factor that far and away overshadows the rest is the sheer quantity of firearms in circulation in the US. A lot of people in other countries are just as "GD willing to kill at the drop of a hat", except they don't have a gun in the glove box, nightstand, kitchen drawer, shoulder holster, waistband, etc.

When our choices are to either get rid of bad/sick people*, or all the excess weaponry, I know what I would choose.

*Let's face it. We can't 'fix' all - or even a small proportion - of the people that need fixing. Keeping guns out of their hands starts with making them less available. I realize that the quantity of guns in the US would probably make that a fool's errand, but throwing up your hands and saying it's impossible, is a copout. May as well say there's no point in having laws against murder or drunk driving, since we can't prevent them all or catch all the perpetrators.

 

[Trell]

Put < and > on the ends if you want to show sarcasm. Or, pick your own.

After all my posts that you’ve replied to about this you think that I meant that all teachers should be armed and wearing bulletproof vests? I guess I was too subtle for you.

 

[highfigh]

After all my posts that you’ve replied to about this you think that I meant that all teachers should be armed and wearing bulletproof vests? I guess I was too subtle for you.

It's not the first time I have seen that kind of comment online.

Some teachers are OK with carrying in school, but not many would do this in large cities, especially in places where gun control is popular- more likely to be out farther, where they hunt and do other outdoors activities. Those places also tend to be fairly far from the police or sheriff's office, so time makes a difference.

 

[highfigh]

You feel crapped on, because you keep repeating the same theory about the disproportional amount of gun violence in the US. While the societal conditions that lead to violence - including gun violence - vary from country to country, the factor that far and away overshadows the rest is the sheer quantity of firearms in circulation in the US. A lot of people in other countries are just as "GD willing to kill at the drop of a hat", except they don't have a gun in the glove box, nightstand, kitchen drawer, shoulder holster, waistband, etc.

When our choices are to either get rid of bad/sick people*, or all the excess weaponry, I know what I would choose.

*Let's face it. We can't 'fix' all - or even a small proportion - of the people that need fixing. Keeping guns out of their hands starts with making them less available. I realize that the quantity of guns in the US would probably make that a fool's errand, but throwing up your hands and saying it's impossible, is a copout. May as well say there's no point in having laws against murder or drunk driving, since we can't prevent them all or catch all the perpetrators.

When I used 'bad' to describe those people, I don't mean it in the sense that they commit minor infractions, I mean these are seriously bad in the sense that they kill, get out of prison, kill again and do all kinds of violent things. You would rather keep them and get rid of the guns? These dirtbags don't care what they'll use, it's just a lot easier, faster and cleaner (for them) than using hand-held weapons that don't fire a projectile.

Who said it's impossible? I said it's difficult because a government that can search and seize whatever it wants, without warrants and probably cause is very dangerous. You're the one who wrote " *Let's face it. We can't 'fix' all - or even a small proportion - of the people that need fixing."- THAT's giving up.

When a bad guy buys a gun, more than one person is dirty- the buyer and the seller (or more, if it changes hands more than a couple of times). Where are you getting that other stuff about "we may as well not have other laws...."? Who wrote anything about getting rid of the gun laws we already have, but are being violated just about every minute of the day?

Homicide is illegal- you want to keep the killers and get rid of the guns, why- because they deserve a freaking hug?

 

[highfigh]

As far as your Constitutional problems, and reasons for change. I really think it's an impossible problem that can't or won't change, while you have moneyed people running the country. It seems that the rich and very rich get to govern the vote regardless of any qualifications they might have Just look at nut's like Trump, who will run again, and buy himself into power. I'm glad we don't have to suffer his stupidity I own a couple of Hyundai cars I have a Lantra GLS sports, and a E-Lantra GL 5 door auto, Why do I have two cars , simple, I blew the clutch a week before Christmas on the GLS. And promised myself I would never be trapped again without a car. My X got the Range Rover as a going away gift. I think I miss the RR more. But cars being cars there's always some fool wanting to take on the police in a race to see who's the better driver. Just check on the link below. What the news doesn't tell you is the driver of the Audi R8 was an active drug dealer, and a banned driver. And frankly he got what he deserved The only people that can afford such high performance cars are in the drug trade. https://7news.com.au/news/nsw/cousins-identified-as-victims-of-fiery-fatal-crash-on-sydney-m4-motorway-c-9550869

Only people in the drug trade can afford them? You don't have people who make a lot of money in legitimate ways on your island?

 

[Trell]

Only people in the drug trade can afford them? You don't have people who make a lot of money in legitimate ways on your island?

Australia is one of the seven continents. That is taught in the US K-12?

 

[GO-NAD!]

When I used 'bad' to describe those people, I don't mean it in the sense that they commit minor infractions, I mean these are seriously bad in the sense that they kill, get out of prison, kill again and do all kinds of violent things. You would rather keep them and get rid of the guns? These dirtbags don't care what they'll use, it's just a lot easier, faster and cleaner (for them) than using hand-held weapons that don't fire a projectile.

When a bad guy buys a gun, more than one person is dirty- the buyer and the seller (or more, if it changes hands more than a couple of times). Where are you getting that other stuff about "we may as well not have other laws...."? Who wrote anything about getting rid of the gun laws we already have, but are being violated just about every minute of the day?

Homicide is illegal- you want to keep the killers and get rid of the guns, why- because they deserve a freaking hug?

Once again, you are ignoring the fact that the single biggest factor contributing to the vastly disproportionate amount of gun violence in the US when compared to other developed countries is the vastly disproportionate presence of firearms in the US.

You already have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Are you suggesting that it isn't high enough? You do remember the definition of insanity, right?

Look, I get it. If you live in an area of high crime rates, I can understand the motivation for having a gun on hand. But, those guns contribute to the problem too, as demonstrated recently by that 6-year old.

Who said it's impossible? I said it's difficult because a government that can search and seize whatever it wants, without warrants and probably cause is very dangerous. You're the one who wrote " *Let's face it. We can't 'fix' all - or even a small proportion - of the people that need fixing."- THAT's giving up.

I could elaborate on that statement, but it would be a pointless waste of my time.

So, one last time. The ubiquitous presence of firearms in American society is the single largest contributor to gun violence. Until that is addressed, everything else just picking around the edges.

 

[TLS Guy]

Once again, you are ignoring the fact that the single biggest factor contributing to the vastly disproportionate amount of gun violence in the US when compared to other developed countries is the vastly disproportionate presence of firearms in the US.

You already have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Are you suggesting that it isn't high enough? You do remember the definition of insanity, right?

Look, I get it. If you live in an area of high crime rates, I can understand the motivation for having a gun on hand. But, those guns contribute to the problem too, as demonstrated recently by that 6-year old.



I could elaborate on that statement, but it would be a pointless waste of my time.

So, one last time. The ubiquitous presence of firearms in American society is the single largest contributor to gun violence. Until that is addressed, everything else just picking around the edges.

Absolutely, but it is an out of date, long past its sell by date constitution, that is preventing the obvious solution.

 

[highfigh]

Australia is one of the seven continents. That is taught in the US K-12?

Thanks, Einstein. I didn't see if he lives in Australia, New Zealand or Tazmania. I suppose you're going to tell me these aren't islands, right?

 

[highfigh]

Once again, you are ignoring the fact that the single biggest factor contributing to the vastly disproportionate amount of gun violence in the US when compared to other developed countries is the vastly disproportionate presence of firearms in the US.

You already have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Are you suggesting that it isn't high enough? You do remember the definition of insanity, right?

Look, I get it. If you live in an area of high crime rates, I can understand the motivation for having a gun on hand. But, those guns contribute to the problem too, as demonstrated recently by that 6-year old.

I could elaborate on that statement, but it would be a pointless waste of my time.

So, one last time. The ubiquitous presence of firearms in American society is the single largest contributor to gun violence. Until that is addressed, everything else just picking around the edges.

I'm not disagreeing that guns need to be taken from many people, but the vast majority of gun owners aren't the problem, aside from their stupidity in storing them in places where someone can access them. That's inexcusable and stupid. Another thing that really pi$$es me off is the lack of response by others who still haven't changed their methods of storage but unfortunately, it's not much of a surprise. It's hard to argue against the "Americans are stupid" opinion of people outside of the US and some of us inside. People used to be much better but they have been pushing the envelope for a long time.

Once again, you're ignoring the quality of the people who are involved in killing 15,000 people every year. You mentioned incarceration rate- look into the % who are in prison for violent crimes before you decide that everyone is wonderful.

Yeah, Milwaukee is a high crime area, but that's spreading to every square foot of the surrounding area. But it's not just here- look at cities like Chicago, Houston, LA, New York, St Louis and elsewhere. If you're only watching a bit of news, you can't see what's really happening. Let's use Toronto as an example- I have been seeing that various crimes have increased drastically in the last 5+ years. Why? It's close to Detroit and some other cities where they decided to expand their territory. You don't see it directly, living in the mean streets of your area, but if you were to come to MKE, you'd leave with your hair on fire in only a few minutes and it's not only gun crimes that are plaguing the city.

Car windows are being smashed in parking lots but the idiots aren't always taking money- they know people leave guns in cars, so that can be their main goal and the link refers to "a Housing Authority complex for low-income families, seniors and disabled adults."

At least 21 vehicles' windows smashed at Locust Court in Riverwest

At least 21 vehicles were broke into in one incident Tuesday morning in Milwaukee's Riverwest neighborhood.

www.jsonline.com

On another night, almost as many car windows were smashed at a Holiday Inn. It happens at malls, hotels/motels, apartment complexes- along with the epidemics of shoplifting, auto theft, strong-arm robbery, an armored truck was robbed of more than $100K yesterday.

You mentioned the 6 year old- we still haven't heard how he got the gun. Don't connect any other place with that shooting. BTW- the school district superintendent has been fired and his last day will be next week. Apparently, the school was warned several times about this kid.

 

[highfigh]

Absolutely, but it is an out of date, long past its sell by date constitution, that is preventing the obvious solution.

So you want to shyte-can the whole Constitution, just because you disagree with the 2nd Amendment?

 

[Trell]

Thanks, Einstein. I didn't see if he lives in Australia, New Zealand or Tazmania. I suppose you're going to tell me these aren't islands, right?

In a post by @mono-bloc that you replied to on the previous page he told you where he lived: "As to my location, I'm about half way between Sydney and Brisbane, and inland from the coast". [color added]

As geography is not one of your strong sides I'll give you a map to look at where I've marked Brisbane and Sydney. From there you can figure out the rest, Sherlock, but my advice is less long rants and more reading of posts. You can start by actually read what you’re replying to.

Also note the big text in red on the map that says: AUSTRALIA

 

[GO-NAD!]

Once again, you're ignoring the quality of the people who are involved in killing 15,000 people every year. You mentioned incarceration rate- look into the % who are in prison for violent crimes before you decide that everyone is wonderful.

Well, when someone commits criminal homicide, their 'quality', as you put it, is brought very much into question. And, I don't think any of my statements imply that I think everyone is wonderful. Bear in mind that a not insignificant proportion of the inmate population is incarcerated for non-violent offences, but come out as different - and not better - people.

There are nasty people all over the world. But, you may be right that the US has a disproportionate number of nasty people. That disproportionate number of nasty people has greater access to firearms than practically any other country of earth.