Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

[lovinthehd]

Did you set the sub trim with music or movies? How loud do you normally listen?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII - RSL Speakers

rslspeakers.com

Oh yeah! I’d be careful running that little guy that hot. It’s a great little sub, but I can’t remember what it has for built in protection. And it’s not really an spl monster. How loud do you normally listen?

 

[Rylan]

I was listening to a movie and using the Dolby surround mode. I like it around -10 to -5 for volume depending on how loud it is. I land more on -10. I adjusted the sub under audio/sub on the AVR

 

[Rylan]

Oh yeah! I’d be careful running that little guy that hot. It’s a great little sub, but I can’t remember what it has for built in protection. And it’s not really an spl monster. How loud do you normally listen?

I can’t find any specifics in the manual indicating what it has for built in protection, but part of what the manual did say is “The RSL Speedwoofer 10SMKII has high quality, built-in protection circuitry, although no protection circuitry is foolproof. It’s best to prevent the subwoofer from being over-driven in the first place. Here are a couple of indications of trouble to watch out for…”

 

[lovinthehd]

I can’t find any specifics in the manual indicating what it has for built in protection, but part of what the manual did say is “The RSL Speedwoofer 10SMKII has high quality, built-in protection circuitry, although no protection circuitry is foolproof. It’s best to prevent the subwoofer from being over-driven in the first place. Here are a couple of indications of trouble to watch out for…”

Which is why we're asking what volume you listen at

 

[Rylan]

Which is why we're asking what volume you listen at

I listen mostly at -10 at loudest

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I listen mostly at -10 at loudest

In my system-10 can be completely insane on some tracks, while sometimes-10 is just normal. My speakers are pretty sensitive though(92db) Depends on the source really. Just be careful is all. 11.5db is really high above baseline, especially for a smallish subwoofer.
How big is the room?

 

[Rylan]

In my system-10 can be completely insane on some tracks, while sometimes-10 is just normal. My speakers are pretty sensitive though(92db) Depends on the source really. Just be careful is all. 11.5db is really high above baseline, especially for a smallish subwoofer.
How big is the room?

20’ 4” x 17’ 9” with a 7’ 9” ceiling

I attached a couple pics. This was before I purchased my 4700 and my RSL speakers. Those old speakers are JBLs that I’m not using. They are from 1996

 

[PENG]

20’ 4” x 17’ 9” with a 7’ 9” ceiling

I attached a couple pics. This was before I purchased my 4700 and my RSL speakers. Those old speakers are JBLs that I’m not using. They are from 1996

The speakers in the pictures look bigger than the RSL speakers you posted specs before. Are you actually using them or different speakers for now?

It looks like the left/right speakers are about 13 to 14 feet to your ears so I can see why you have to turn volume up to -10, though that's still too loud for a lot of people. Given the size of the room and the distance, you probably can do much better going with speakers of higher sensitivity, such as 92 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, instead of those little RSL speakers with sensitivity 86 to 89 dB/W/m. Based on the specs, that look like glorified satellite speakers to me that can do great in a smaller room but not your relative large room.

 

[Rylan]

The speakers in the pictures look bigger than the RSL speakers you posted specs before. Are you actually using them or different speakers for now?

It looks like the left/right speakers are about 13 to 14 feet to your ears so I can see why you have to turn volume up to -10, though that's still too loud for a lot of people. Given the size of the room and the distance, you probably can do much better going with speakers of higher sensitivity, such as 92 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, instead of those little RSL speakers with sensitivity 86 to 89 dB/W/m. Based on the specs, that look like glorified satellite speakers to me that can do great in a smaller room but not your relative large room.

Well those are just older JBL speakers I don’t intend to use. Not sure how good of quality they are anyways being they almost 30 years old. They are much bigger speakers.
JBL Model LC310-1
Tweeter 1.10 "
Mid 5"
Woofer 10"
120 Watt

I only have the RSL’s CG3 /CG23 series being used right now. RSL does have an upgraded line, CG5/ CG25, https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/rsl-cg5-and-cg25
that I had been considering, but sensitivity doesn’t really go up. I feel I get great sound out of the CG3 / CG23 speakers. Would the CG5 line be a better speaker? They are larger.

Also, would adding in a second RSL subwoofer really make an improvement in my system? With the x4700h I can set up the subs independently. I’m curious how big of a difference 2 subs would make vs the 1 sub?

 

[PENG]

Well those are just older JBL speakers I don’t intend to use. Not sure how good of quality they are anyways being they almost 30 years old. They are much bigger speakers. I believe they have a 10” woofer, mid and tweeter.

I only have the RSL’s CG3 /CG23 series being used right now. RSL does have an upgraded line, CG5/ CG25, https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/rsl-cg5-and-cg25
that I had been considering, but sensitivity doesn’t really go up. I feel I get great sound out of the CG3 / CG23 speakers. Would the CG5 line be a better speaker? They are larger.

Also, would adding in a second RSL subwoofer really make an improvement in my system? With the x4700h I can set up the subs independently. I’m curious how big of a difference 2 subs would make vs the 1 sub?

Based on the measurements I don't find them that good but that's just me. James (@shadyJ ), the reviewer seems to like them (no idea why) but I will only rely on specs and measurements. Subjective views used to mean a lot to me but as I learnt more about this hobby, I no longer value subjective opinions, that caused me lots of time and money that I could have spent on things that matter more to sound quality.

 

[Rylan]

Based on the measurements I don't find them that good but that's just me. James (@shadyJ ), the reviewer seems to like them (no idea why) but I will only rely on specs and measurements. Subjective views used to mean a lot to me but as I learnt more about this hobby, I no longer value subjective opinions, that caused me lots of time and money that I could have spent on things that matter more to sound quality.

That’s a good perspective. I did edit the previous post and put some specs on my JBLs.

Do you have any recommendations on speakers that in your opinion out perform the RSL’s? When it comes to speakers and brands, my knowledge is very limited

 

[PENG]

That’s a good perspective. I did edit the previous post and put some specs on my JBLs.

Do you have any recommendations on speakers that in your opinion out perform the RSL’s? When it comes to speakers and brands, my knowledge is very limited

I would look to KEF, Revel, Focal, Philharmonics if you can stretch your budget.

Examples:

Philharmonic Audio BMR Philharmonic Bookshelf Speaker Review | Audioholics

Or, take a look of one that Audioholics.com rated product of the year:
Polk Reserve R700 Floorstanding Loudspeaker Measurements & Conclusion | Audioholics

If not, some Elac, Klipsch models that have good measurements.

You seem to enjoy listening loud, if true then the Klipsch may be for you:

Klipsch RP-8000F II Floorstanding Loudspeaker Measurements & Conclusion | Audioholics

 

[Rylan]

The speakers in the pictures look bigger than the RSL speakers you posted specs before. Are you actually using them or different speakers for now?

It looks like the left/right speakers are about 13 to 14 feet to your ears so I can see why you have to turn volume up to -10, though that's still too loud for a lot of people. Given the size of the room and the distance, you probably can do much better going with speakers of higher sensitivity, such as 92 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, instead of those little RSL speakers with sensitivity 86 to 89 dB/W/m. Based on the specs, that look like glorified satellite speakers to me that can do great in a smaller room but not your relative large room.

One thing I can say about the RSL speakers CG3/CG23’s, is that they really do sound great. They sound crisp and clear. I don’t struggle hearing any clarity, and the center speaker is great as well. One thing I’ll note is that I haven’t actually sat and watched an entire movie with them yet. This is also because I’ve only had the Denon set up for a few days. It’s a lot of sampling demos and having friends and family listen. This is also the reason I’m playing them louder is because I’m wanting others to have a good experience as they sample the sound. Everyone who has listened
so far say they’ve never heard a system sound so good, and some say, this is better then a movie theater. I don’t know about that haha, these people certainly are not audiophiles, but nevertheless, they like what they hear.
If I sat down to watch a movie with my wife, very likely we would listen somewhere between -18 and -12.

I know you are no longer keen on subjective views, but I did recently go back and read Theo Nicolakis’ review on the CG3’s, and he was very impressed with these speakers. https://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/rsl-cg3-cg23-speedwoofer-10s-loudspeaker-system-review/2

I appreciate all the recommendations on speaker brands, and I will definitely look into these and compare. At the price point of the RSL’s, if I decide not to currently invest more money, I know I could be happy with the RSL’s speakers.

Did you have any thoughts on adding a second sub? how would this change my overall sound and would I feel the bass much more in my chest?

Also, what if I upgraded a little and used only CG23’s for my surrounds instead of the CG3’s, would I get a bit better sound? Then all of my speaker would then be CG23’s with the exception of my 4 RSL C34e ceiling speakers

 

[Danzilla31]

One thing I can say about the RSL speakers CG3/CG23’s, is that they really do sound great. They sound crisp and clear. I don’t struggle hearing any clarity, and the center speaker is great as well. One thing I’ll note is that I haven’t actually sat and watched an entire movie with them yet. This is also because I’ve only had the Denon set up for a few days. It’s a lot of sampling demos and having friends and family listen. This is also the reason I’m playing them louder is because I’m wanting others to have a good experience as they sample the sound. Everyone who has listened
so far say they’ve never heard a system sound so good, and some say, this is better then a movie theater. I don’t know about that haha, these people certainly are not audiophiles, but nevertheless, they like what they hear.
If I sat down to watch a movie with my wife, very likely we would listen somewhere between -18 and -12.

I know you are no longer keen on subjective views, but I did recently go back and read Theo Nicolakis’ review on the CG3’s, and he was very impressed with these speakers. https://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/rsl-cg3-cg23-speedwoofer-10s-loudspeaker-system-review/2

I appreciate all the recommendations on speaker brands, and I will definitely look into these and compare. At the price point of the RSL’s, if I decide not to currently invest more money, I know I could be happy with the RSL’s speakers.

Did you have any thoughts on adding a second sub? how would this change my overall sound and would I feel the bass much more in my chest?

Also, what if I upgraded a little and used only CG23’s for my surrounds instead of the CG3’s, would I get a bit better sound? Then all of my speaker would then be CG23’s with the exception of my 4 RSL C34e ceiling speakers

The only thing I could suggest and you've been doing a great job so far by the way. @lovinthehd and @William Lemmerhirt have been giving you excellent advice.

The only thing I can think of is that that's not a small room. And it's open to that stairway. Which adds even more volume to the air. Which is why you may be needing to turn your trim up to 0 for your sub. You may need a second RSL sub to help with that room

Especially since you need to cross over them to the cg3 a Lil higher then some of us do.

Also you may want to trade up eventually to there cg5 lineup. I bet they offer a good trade up program. I'd use the cg25 in that room like at @PENG said that's a good sized room and fair amount of distance for those speakers at that sensitivity

Other then that sounds like your doing really good. Your off to to a great start. The main priority if you can spring for is a 2nd RSL sub You'll notice a big improvement I'd almost bet money on that

 

[Danzilla31]

One thing I can say about the RSL speakers CG3/CG23’s, is that they really do sound great. They sound crisp and clear. I don’t struggle hearing any clarity, and the center speaker is great as well. One thing I’ll note is that I haven’t actually sat and watched an entire movie with them yet. This is also because I’ve only had the Denon set up for a few days. It’s a lot of sampling demos and having friends and family listen. This is also the reason I’m playing them louder is because I’m wanting others to have a good experience as they sample the sound. Everyone who has listened
so far say they’ve never heard a system sound so good, and some say, this is better then a movie theater. I don’t know about that haha, these people certainly are not audiophiles, but nevertheless, they like what they hear.
If I sat down to watch a movie with my wife, very likely we would listen somewhere between -18 and -12.

I know you are no longer keen on subjective views, but I did recently go back and read Theo Nicolakis’ review on the CG3’s, and he was very impressed with these speakers. https://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/rsl-cg3-cg23-speedwoofer-10s-loudspeaker-system-review/2

I appreciate all the recommendations on speaker brands, and I will definitely look into these and compare. At the price point of the RSL’s, if I decide not to currently invest more money, I know I could be happy with the RSL’s speakers.

Did you have any thoughts on adding a second sub? how would this change my overall sound and would I feel the bass much more in my chest?

Also, what if I upgraded a little and used only CG23’s for my surrounds instead of the CG3’s, would I get a bit better sound? Then all of my speaker would then be CG23’s with the exception of my 4 RSL C34e ceiling speakers

Upgrading to all CG23’s would be good but better would be

#1 add a second RSL sub

#2 upgrade the front 3 to cg 25's move the cg23 to surround duty

I'm not suprised your family and friends are enjoying them so much. RSL makes some fine speakers. And as you found they have some good output at higher volumes with no distortion and clean good sound as long as you cross them over high enough like you have so your not asking to much out of them.

Since you like some good volume levels in that room I'd move up eventually to the CG25's but for now the best immediate impact you can make is getting a second sub

 

[lovinthehd]

Just on how much sub you like I'd get the second RSL next....it'll ease the load on each sub somewhat (a second sub will probably bring in a 2-4 dB spl increase, 6dB at best). At your listening levels the sub is being worked fairly hard.

 

[ban25]

I think in that price range I would take a close look at the Polk R700s. They've been getting strong reviews across the board, from Gene here at Audioholics to Andrew Robinson on YouTube (where they made the year end list).

 

[Rylan]

Upgrading to all CG23’s would be good but better would be

#1 add a second RSL sub

#2 upgrade the front 3 to cg 25's move the cg23 to surround duty

I'm not suprised your family and friends are enjoying them so much. RSL makes some fine speakers. And as you found they have some good output at higher volumes with no distortion and clean good sound as long as you cross them over high enough like you have so your not asking to much out of them.

Since you like some good volume levels in that room I'd move up eventually to the CG25's but for now the best immediate impact you can make is getting a second sub

Great input @Danzilla31, I appreciate the compliment! Thats a great point as well @lovinthehd. I will plan to get a second sub to lesson the strain a bit on the first sub, and to help with the open staircase and doorways and get an overall better sound. @William Lemmerhirt and @PENG and many others have all given great input. I want to say thank you for all giving me the time to listen and direct me the right way.

@Danzilla3, I am crossing them over at 90hz, RSL recommends between 90 and 100.

I like the idea of CG25s for LCR and CG23s for the surrounds. At least something to consider. The sensitivity on the CG25’s does increase a bit to 88. I still am within my 30 day full money back guarantee on the speakers so I can upgrade and trade things with no issues.

 

[PENG]

One thing I can say about the RSL speakers CG3/CG23’s, is that they really do sound great. They sound crisp and clear. I don’t struggle hearing any clarity, and the center speaker is great as well. One thing I’ll note is that I haven’t actually sat and watched an entire movie with them yet. This is also because I’ve only had the Denon set up for a few days. It’s a lot of sampling demos and having friends and family listen. This is also the reason I’m playing them louder is because I’m wanting others to have a good experience as they sample the sound. Everyone who has listened
so far say they’ve never heard a system sound so good, and some say, this is better then a movie theater. I don’t know about that haha, these people certainly are not audiophiles, but nevertheless, they like what they hear.
If I sat down to watch a movie with my wife, very likely we would listen somewhere between -18 and -12.

I know you are no longer keen on subjective views, but I did recently go back and read Theo Nicolakis’ review on the CG3’s, and he was very impressed with these speakers. https://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/rsl-cg3-cg23-speedwoofer-10s-loudspeaker-system-review/2

I appreciate all the recommendations on speaker brands, and I will definitely look into these and compare. At the price point of the RSL’s, if I decide not to currently invest more money, I know I could be happy with the RSL’s speakers.

Did you have any thoughts on adding a second sub? how would this change my overall sound and would I feel the bass much more in my chest?

Also, what if I upgraded a little and used only CG23’s for my surrounds instead of the CG3’s, would I get a bit better sound? Then all of my speaker would then be CG23’s with the exception of my 4 RSL C34e ceiling speakers

I do read subjective reviews, just won't put much weight on them because they are subjective views of the reviewers that may or may not apply to others.

If your own view is that the CG23 are great then you have what you like already, though trading them in for the cg25 seems like a good idea because you expect to listen with volume at -12.

For your room size and distance, a second subwoofer is also a good idea, or even a necessity.