Audyssey in x4500h not working

[David696969]

If it shows that there's no speaker connected to the center channel, check the connections and make sure all of the speakers you're using are enabled in the setup menu.

Some times the internal feel the capacitor could be weak or blown on that channel go inside open it up and see if something's burnt or swollen or any type of brown substance coming out the top of the output stage filter capacitor sometimes they overheat and short.

 

[highfigh]

Some times the internal feel the capacitor could be weak or blown on that channel go inside open it up and see if something's burnt or swollen or any type of brown substance coming out the top of the output stage filter capacitor sometimes they overheat and short.

Speaker caps usually explode- most have paper & foil. OR, are you referring to the AVR? In that case, I wouldn't recommend opening it unless the person has the experience.

 

[TLS Guy]

There is no DAC in the mic. I checked with the SM, it is analog input to a dual opa, then to a 7in/3 out analog switch and then to the ADC/DSP/DAC. For such application, the long skinny cable should not be an issue, it is only to collect info for the REQ software to create filters.

That completes the puzzle. So we now know the basic nuts and bolts of the architecture of that system.

Thanks for that post.

 

[TLS Guy]

Your AV7705, even the 7703 are compatible with the $20 Editor App. I would suggest you try that and use Ratbuddyssey if necessary. Based on your posted graphs I think if you use the App to limit the EQ range to below 300 Hz or so and create your own bass curve you may hear some improvements without spending more time tweaking. Obviously for you to try and play with the app would be for your own fact finding only, so I completely understand if you don't want to be bothered.

I don't think just using Audyssey would degrade your overall SNR, definitely not for movies anyway when the DSP is in the loop anyway. If you are concerned about THD+N, you should look at the relatively poor performance of your AV7705, that has much worse THD+N even compared to the Denon AVRs. DR wasn't too bad as the high THD+N appeared to be due to high THD but it was still a little poorer than Denon's even measured at the balanced output.

I'm really not inclined to change things. In the end once you have it close, the ear has to the ultimate arbiter. This room sounds very, very good, and phenomenally realistic.

I posted about the S/N of the AV 7705 what I first posted my impressions of it. The S/N is indeed marginal. In a quiet room with the 7705, off the room is totally silent at the listening positions. So the 18 channels of Quad amps and the electronic crossovers are totally silent. As soon as you switch on the 7705 you can just hear slight background noise from the seated area. If you engage Audyssey, you easily hear it, and it has a different more obvious timbre, and is enough to intrude on very quiet passages, lake the fade at the end of the Mahler 9th, where he foretells is death, most likely, although he never stated that. He wrote it after he knew his rheumatic heart disease would be fatal. The changing rhythms with alternating timing, almost certainly mimic atrial fibrillation.

So, yes, the AV 7705 should have better S/N. However it is not enough of a problem to upgrade to the AV 7706 when my 7705 is not even three years old.

 

[Reckel]

I posted some measurements this morning after a little tweaking this morning on pg 4 but I did notice last night listening that with audyssey turned off it did sound good. Idk if harsh is the right word and I’m not saying audyssey sounds bad on but higher frequencies seemed tamed down which I like better, guess it was a more natural sound. Idk maybe I’m wrong

 

[PENG]

Whether I invert or not I’m still getting a pretty nice response, pretty much identical looking to me. Those 4 pics I posted other day is with rear sub not inverted. I’ll let you know what music sounds like when I’m able to play around for awhile down there

I forgot to ask you something, did you use the minidsp to time align your 3 subs or you actually use if for EQ. In my opinion/experience, it is better to use it to time align the subs and then run Audyssey. If you use REW to general the equalizers/filters for the minidsp, you will be basically using just multi band PEQs, that won't be as good as the Audyssey generated FIR filters. That's just in general and in theory, practically, depending on you setup, you may get great result either way. When I did it with the minidsp, I tried using it on its own, then Audyssey on its own and finally, use both together. I eventually remove the mini not because it made things worse, but since it didn't really do anything so there wasn't any point to have the extra wires laying around.

Regardless, all the curves you have posted so far are very smooth so making it any better will most likely not make any audible difference.

 

[PENG]

I posted some measurements this morning after a little tweaking this morning on pg 4 but I did notice last night listening that with audyssey turned off it did sound good. Idk if harsh is the right word and I’m not saying audyssey sounds bad on but higher frequencies seemed tamed down which I like better, guess it was a more natural sound. Idk maybe I’m wrong

When you had Audyssey on, did you limit to EQ'ed range to say 300 Hz, a little higher, or full range? If it sound harsh to you and you are doing full range, then you may want to try limiting the range to 300 Hz, or may also try 1,000 Hz, or even 2,500 Hz first to see what happens. You may also try the optional high frequency roll-off curve.

I have tried switching between Audyssey on and off numerous time, and to me, on is clearly the better sounding one. It is much easier to tell the difference with music.

 

[Pogre]

Some times the internal feel the capacitor could be weak or blown on that channel go inside open it up and see if something's burnt or swollen or any type of brown substance coming out the top of the output stage filter capacitor sometimes they overheat and short.

We don't recommend folks open up electronics unless qualified. It not only voids warranties but it is really dangerous.

 

[TLS Guy]

I posted some measurements this morning after a little tweaking this morning on pg 4 but I did notice last night listening that with audyssey turned off it did sound good. Idk if harsh is the right word and I’m not saying audyssey sounds bad on but higher frequencies seemed tamed down which I like better, guess it was a more natural sound. Idk maybe I’m wrong

No, you are correct, Audyssey has an unnatural HF balance, because it tries to correct for the HF downward tilt with distance. As you go to the seated positions the sound is a blend of direct sound and reflected sound. The reflected sound has reduced HF content than the direct sound. So the addition of the two will, and should have, HF roll off, which absolutely should not be corrected.

I have a feeling that the Audyssey curves are directed at the rock/popular music crowd. For classical music they are are most unnatural. This really upsets the string sound and makes it strident. Trumpets are also adversely affected. For opera those curves are a real nightmare.

 

[Reckel]

I forgot to ask you something, did you use the minidsp to time align your 3 subs or you actually use if for EQ. In my opinion/experience, it is better to use it to time align the subs and then run Audyssey. If you use REW to general the equalizers/filters for the minidsp, you will be basically using just multi band PEQs, that won't be as good as the Audyssey generated FIR filters. That's just in general and in theory, practically, depending on you setup, you may get great result either way. When I did it with the minidsp, I tried using it on its own, then Audyssey on its own and finally, use both together. I eventually remove the mini not because it made things worse, but since it didn't really do anything so there wasn't any point to have the extra wires laying around.

Regardless, all the curves you have posted so far are very smooth so making it any better will most likely not make any audible difference.

Yes I’m using mini first, well I was. Since audyssey is not working right now I set everything manually then I’m using mini. I was only using first three positions with audyssey after using mini. The research I did said to only use the first three positions because if you went any further it would screw up the eq you did to the subs. Either way I do it im still getting pretty much identical results. And yes they’re aligned. My rear sub is inverted now but if it’s not then I had to add 8ms to it and it was aligned with the front two. And yes I’ve always been between 300-500hz using app for the cutoff

 

[Reckel]

Using the first three positions is not eqing any of the speakers from what I can tell. With audyssey off high frequencies just seemed tamed down. I’ve played with it being set to 300, 500 and higher and to me I couldn’t tell a difference, higher frequencies seemed the same but now since I have audyssey off I can tell higher frequencies are tamed down. And I’m not saying audyssey is bad at all but I did hear a difference last night. I don’t want higher frequencies blasting my ears now maybe it’s my room or I’m wrong but I could hear a difference last night, was more natural

 

[lovinthehd]

IIRC TLS has experience with only XT and no app with frequency cutoff. Might be a slight difference in surround level, which can be adjusted a bit with trim level.

 

[Reckel]

And what exactly would be the difference between using mini before audyssey as opposed to using it after audyssey? Isn’t audyssey cutting as much as it can to flatten things just like the mini? But the mini to me does better. You saw from March 8th of graph I posted that with deq on I got the exact same curve I created in the mini after just using first three positions. And now with the graphs I posted this morning without using audyssey at all and no deq that basically I’m getting the same response although this morning’s ones are a little better. So to me either way you use mini whether before or after audyssey you’re getting the same response as to what that person has eq’d, I know my graphs show that. I don’t think it’s wrong either way it’s used but I’m no expert and just my opinion

 

[lovinthehd]

Running audyssey post using the mini, and assuming relatively good results using the mini, it would be more about alignment of phase/level than eq. Some eq could be applied in the process of running Audyssey, tho. Some add to curve in the minidsp after running Audyssey, too. YMMV. Where did you get the bit about running only 3 positions? ....the overwhelming advice is to use all mic positions....

 

[Reckel]

Running audyssey post using the mini, and assuming relatively good results using the mini, it would be more about alignment of phase/level than eq. Some eq could be applied in the process of running Audyssey, tho. Some add to curve in the minidsp after running Audyssey, too. YMMV. Where did you get the bit about running only 3 positions? ....the overwhelming advice is to use all mic positions....

I know a lot of people on here don’t like YouTubers and I’m the same way but I watched two different people that explain in depth how to use the mini and both had avrs with audyssey. What they explained was to use mini first then audyssey but only first three positions so it wouldn’t screw up any of the eq you did for the subs in the mini or the sub had to be disabled somehow so audyssey wouldn’t mess things up running more than 3 spots. I run all 8 when not using mini but I haven’t tried using mini then running all 8. I’ll try once I get my avr fixed

 

[lovinthehd]

I know a lot of people on here don’t like YouTubers and I’m the same way but I watched two different people that explain in depth how to use the mini and both had avrs with audyssey. What they explained was to use mini first then audyssey but only first three positions so it wouldn’t screw up any of the eq you did for the subs in the mini or the sub had to be disabled somehow so audyssey wouldn’t mess things up running more than 3 spots. I run all 8 when not using mini but I haven’t tried using mini then running all 8. I’ll try once I get my avr fixed

Yeah without knowing what youtubers have no idea....just because it's on the internet and all that. Just the vast amount I've seen from those with much hands-on experience in various good audio groups and fora, and even Audyssey themselves, recommmend all the information possible by using all mic positions. I don't think it's a particular issue at this point if you cannot even run Audyssey.

Have you checked the mic input port for lint?

 

[Reckel]

Yeah without knowing what youtubers have no idea....just because it's on the internet and all that. Just the vast amount I've seen from those with much hands-on experience in various good audio groups and fora, and even Audyssey themselves, recommmend all the information possible by using all mic positions. I don't think it's a particular issue at this point if you cannot even run Audyssey.

Have you checked the mic input port for lint?

I’ve checked for that and rest avr twice and pulled power cord, it’s in the avr now I think. Everything was fine last Friday/Saturday and then Sunday it didn’t want to work and I used three different mics and no dice. Yea all the research I’ve done too says to use all 8. I was just on avs forum and there was a lot people saying audyssey screwed their curve up using mini first, so the consensus was to run audyssey first then eq with mini

 

[lovinthehd]

I’ve checked for that and rest avr twice and pulled power cord, it’s in the avr now I think. Everything was fine last Friday/Saturday and then Sunday it didn’t want to work and I used three different mics and no dice. Yea all the research I’ve done too says to use all 8. I was just on avs forum and there was a lot people saying audyssey screwed their curve up using mini first, so the consensus was to run audyssey first then eq with mini

You did a soft reset, but how about a full/hard/microprocessor/factory reset? The using mini to achieve flat response then run Audyssey is what I've done, made more sense to me than the other way around. Hard to set a curve in advance when Audyssey is trying to flatten it....

 

[Reckel]

You did a soft reset, but how about a full/hard/microprocessor/factory reset? The using mini to achieve flat response then run Audyssey is what I've done, made more sense to me than the other way around. Hard to set a curve in advance when Audyssey is trying to flatten it....

I was on the phone with denon when I did the reset, I assume it was a hard reset? I assume you ran all 8 in audyssey after the mini? How’d it turn out, obviously I can’t try that at the moment

 

[lovinthehd]

I was on the phone with denon when I did the reset, I assume it was a hard reset? I assume you ran all 8 in audyssey after the mini? How’d it turn out, obviously I can’t try that at the moment

You mentioned unplugging it only in the last post (i.e. a soft reset), there is more to it for a full reset. It's described in your manual.