Audyssey in x4500h not working

[Reckel]

Great work! I bet you can easily hear the difference between with REQ on and off, a much better difference obviously.

Thx and yes sounds great, well it did. I’ve been playing since then and now avr is screwed up

 

[Pogre]

Oh, I contacted gik acoustics too and filled out a form. I added an image of the room layout I drew up0 a while back along with some images and descriptions of my room. I may or may not do anything. I'm just curious where would be advised to start. I'm still waiting for them to get back to me.

 

[Pogre]

Great work! I bet you can easily hear the difference between with REQ on and off, a much better difference obviously.

Yeah Reckel has been sharing some really impressive looking charts and inspiring me to play again, lol.

Thx and yes sounds great, well it did. I’ve been playing since then and now avr is screwed up

That really sucks. Did you ever contact Denon?

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, look really great, I thought you had a couple big dips too before, did they get smoothed off? Just wonder how they look without smoothing..

I didn't save any unsmoothed charts but I can assure you the smoothing really didn't make much difference. It's still +/- about 2 dB from 120 hz to 17 hz.

 

[PENG]

I didn't save any unsmoothed charts but I can assure you the smoothing really didn't make much difference. It's still +/- about 2 dB from 120 hz to 17 hz.

Thanks, I know yours were all flat in that range, was wondering about the 150 to 200 Hz range only. Only posted graphs on forums tend to show some sharp narrow dips there.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, I know yours were all flat in that range, was wondering about the 150 to 200 Hz range only. Only posted graphs on forums tend to show some sharp narrow dips there.

Yeah, the smoothing does hide some sins in that area. Some of those dips are deep but narrow spikes that are pretty much undetectable but they're there.

 

[Reckel]

Yeah Reckel has been sharing some really impressive looking charts and inspiring me to play again, lol.

That really sucks. Did you ever contact Denon?

Yea, was told to send in for repair. It’s still under warranty. I’m just pissed because it’s not even 2yrs old

 

[TLS Guy]

Yea, was told to send in for repair. It’s still under warranty. I’m just pissed because it’s not even 2yrs old

I have been trying to find out more information on these Audyssey mics. They are manufactured and supplied by Audyssey. They are MEMS microphones, connected to high speed current feedback amps, which are in the mic. What I can't find out is where the analog to digital conversion takes place. With these systems it could be in the mic, or the receiver. Since the cable is fine and long, my guess is that it is in the mic and not in the AVR or AVP. I say this as this would be much less likely to cause interference with, and degradation of the signal.

I can find no information on what the technology is behind YPAO. But it is highly unlikely to be identical. So I would never connect a YPAO mic to a Denon/Marantz unit, as there would be a good chance of causing damage. With a system this complicated a faulty mic might also cause damage.

The take home is that this is only superficially simple, and deceptively complex.

 

[Reckel]

I have been trying to find out more information on these Audyssey mics. They are manufactured and supplied by Audyssey. They are MEMS microphones, connected to high speed current feedback amps, which are in the mic. What I can't find out is where the analog to digital conversion takes place. With these systems it could be in the mic, or the receiver. Since the cable is fine and long, my guess is that it is in the mic and not in the AVR or AVP. I say this as this would be much less likely to cause interference with, and degradation of the signal.

I can find no information on what the technology is behind YPAO. But it is highly unlikely to be identical. So I would never connect a YPAO mic to a Denon/Marantz unit, as there would be a good chance of causing damage. With a system this complicated a faulty mic might also cause damage.

The take home is that this is only superficially simple, and deceptively complex.

I’m thinking it’s in the avr but do you think I should just buy another mic? I opened a brand new one Monday and that didn’t work either

 

[TLS Guy]

I’m thinking it’s in the avr but do you think I should just buy another mic? I opened a brand new one Monday and that didn’t work either

I suspect the digital conversion is in the mic, but either way your problem is now in the receiver. I would not buy another mic.

Does you receiver work if you switch off Audyssey? If so you can run it with Audyssey off. I run all my three systems with Audyssey off. All my systems are downgraded with Audyssey, and that includes degraded signal to noise ratio. That alone, I can not tolerate, as I listen to very wide dynamic range music and it intrudes in the very quiet passages.

 

[Reckel]

I suspect the digital conversion is in the mic, but either way your problem is now in the receiver. I would not buy another mic.

Does you receiver work if you switch off Audyssey? If so you can run it with Audyssey off. I run all my three systems with Audyssey off. All my systems are downgraded with Audyssey, and that includes degraded signal to noise ratio. That alone, I can not tolerate, as I listen to very wide dynamic range music and it intrudes in the very quiet passages.

It does. I’ll be down there tomorrow manually setting it up

 

[PENG]

What I can't find out is where the analog to digital conversion takes place. With these systems it could be in the mic, or the receiver. Since the cable is fine and long, my guess is that it is in the mic and not in the AVR or AVP. I say this as this would be much less likely to cause interference with, and degradation of the signal.

There is no DAC in the mic. I checked with the SM, it is analog input to a dual opa, then to a 7in/3 out analog switch and then to the ADC/DSP/DAC. For such application, the long skinny cable should not be an issue, it is only to collect info for the REQ software to create filters.

 

[PENG]

All my systems are downgraded with Audyssey, and that includes degraded signal to noise ratio. That alone, I can not tolerate, as I listen to very wide dynamic range music and it intrudes in the very quiet passages.

Your AV7705, even the 7703 are compatible with the $20 Editor App. I would suggest you try that and use Ratbuddyssey if necessary. Based on your posted graphs I think if you use the App to limit the EQ range to below 300 Hz or so and create your own bass curve you may hear some improvements without spending more time tweaking. Obviously for you to try and play with the app would be for your own fact finding only, so I completely understand if you don't want to be bothered.

I don't think just using Audyssey would degrade your overall SNR, definitely not for movies anyway when the DSP is in the loop anyway. If you are concerned about THD+N, you should look at the relatively poor performance of your AV7705, that has much worse THD+N even compared to the Denon AVRs. DR wasn't too bad as the high THD+N appeared to be due to high THD but it was still a little poorer than Denon's even measured at the balanced output.

 

[Reckel]

This is what i got tonight about 30min ago obviously with not audyssey. I tried to keep playing with the little bumps at 24, 30 and 37hz but it just made other areas not look good and honestly i'm not going to hear the difference anyway. Now this graph is with my rear sub inverted in the mini. Correct me if i'm wrong but everything i've always read. you are supposed to pick the one with the higher spl like if i was switching my phase switch on the rear of my sub which i assume that is what the inverted box is on the mini? Anyway with it inverted the total spl was 4-5db higher when i had all the subs playing rather than with it not inverted. It definately pounds a lot harder. Only thing i'd say is that it just seems like the bass is in the back of room but my crappy seat that is near the opening to the rest of the basement sounds really good now. That seat sounded a little weak before when the rear was not inverted.

 

[Reckel]

I was just listening to some clips again and it just pounds a lot harder from the rear, it doesn’t sound uneven with the other two. You guys will have to tell me if I’m wrong for inverting the rear one. Like I said above, I always thought you went with the higher spl one with not inverted/inverted

 

[PENG]

I was just listening to some clips again and it just pounds a lot harder from the rear, it doesn’t sound uneven with the other two. You guys will have to tell me if I’m wrong for inverting the rear one. Like I said above, I always thought you went with the higher spl one with not inverted/inverted

It depends, if you are not pushing your subs anywhere to their limits then a few dB more by inverting anything may not amount to anything and in that case you should pick the one that produces a smoothing response. Also, unless you can listen to music without moving your position at all, i.e. frozen in place. Otherwise you should also check the response within your listening "bubble". With bass, even a few inches away from the MMP in any direction could make a few dB difference here and there.

All auto REQ software, whether by Dirac Live, Audyssey, Anthem, Trinnov requires you to use multiple mic positions, typically at least 12 to 18 inches from one to the next positions, to the right, left, upper right, lower right, front and back etc. for that and other reasons. Good looking FR curves is only good if it also sounds good to you in the end. That's another reason I gave up using my minidsp, because even if it makes your FR curve look flatter, I don't believe it will make things sound better over all, than using a good auto REQ system like Audyssey and Dirac. If what you have now, do sound better to you overall, then for sure stick with it, but in my experience, it really is not always easy to tell which ones sounds better with movie contents.

 

[Pogre]

I was just listening to some clips again and it just pounds a lot harder from the rear, it doesn’t sound uneven with the other two. You guys will have to tell me if I’m wrong for inverting the rear one. Like I said above, I always thought you went with the higher spl one with not inverted/inverted

Are you gain matched or level matched? I think gain matching might cause the unevenness you're hearing. That's why I level match.

 

[Reckel]

Are you gain matched or level matched? I think gain matching might cause the unevenness you're hearing. That's why I level match.

Both. I don’t think it sounds uneven. I only listened to a few scenes from a couple different movies so I didn’t spend a lot of time down there. Hard to explain, it just seems to hit harder, thicker more weight to it, scarier when it hits. I was down there tweaking a little this morning

 

[Reckel]

It depends, if you are not pushing your subs anywhere to their limits then a few dB more by inverting anything may not amount to anything and in that case you should pick the one that produces a smoothing response. Also, unless you can listen to music without moving your position at all, i.e. frozen in place. Otherwise you should also check the response within your listening "bubble". With bass, even a few inches away from the MMP in any direction could make a few dB difference here and there.

All auto REQ software, whether by Dirac Live, Audyssey, Anthem, Trinnov requires you to use multiple mic positions, typically at least 12 to 18 inches from one to the next positions, to the right, left, upper right, lower right, front and back etc. for that and other reasons. Good looking FR curves is only good if it also sounds good to you in the end. That's another reason I gave up using my minidsp, because even if it makes your FR curve look flatter, I don't believe it will make things sound better over all, than using a good auto REQ system like Audyssey and Dirac. If what you have now, do sound better to you overall, then for sure stick with it, but in my experience, it really is not always easy to tell which ones sounds better with movie contents.

Whether I invert or not I’m still getting a pretty nice response, pretty much identical looking to me. Those 4 pics I posted other day is with rear sub not inverted. I’ll let you know what music sounds like when I’m able to play around for awhile down there

 

[Reckel]

This is from some tweaking this morning