Audyssey killing my HT sound?

[Pogre]

How is the fr when you play L+R with Audyssey enabled? I’ve got quite a bit of cancellation from midbass and down.

All of those charts are with the front left and right speakers plus subs.

 

[Kaskade89052]

If your speakers are good and they are properly set up, Audyssey is nearly useless. It might be able to help a little bit in low frequencies by trimming peaks related to room modes. If you can't restrict Audyssey to just the bass range, I say leave it off. It can help a bad system, but it can hurt a good system a lot more than help it.

This is it, in a nutshell....

I don't run any Audyssey in my system (my AVR boasts 2EQ) and always preferred the sound of this approach (along with my own calibration efforts with regard to channel levels, crossovers, etc.).

Indeed, as Shady alluded to, if you have good speakers and a decent room/environment, these room correction schemes aren't really necessary (IMO). In my case, I'm running Polk RTi12 towers for mains, which are well-made speakers, and they're positioned equidistant from the sweet spot (as is the Polk CSi30 center), so my soundstage is rather balanced (the two surrounds are a bit uneven in terms of distance, but I correct for that by setting their distance differences in the AVR) -- I never found a need for Audyssey.

Here's one piece of advice I can give you, my friend Hetfield: DON'T talk about how you prefer not to use room correction software in your setup ANYWHERE NEAR the AVS Forum -- those guys will eat you and your offspring alive. They just don't want to hear it....say anything remotely differing in opinion when it comes to DIRAC on the new Onkyos, for example, and you'll be cast out as a pariah, destined to walk the earth for all eternity as a demonized forebearer of the coming apocalypse.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Pisst, @TLS Guy, hates AC, lots do. Some like it a lot, me? I use a tape measure and a SPL meter when I had to dial in my two Subs. I can understand why the manufacturers use AC. It add to the cost of the units.

Tape measure here for me too when it comes time to measure distances to the sweet spot.....

 

[Epsonfan]

Here's one piece of advice I can give you, my friend Hetfield: DON'T talk about how you prefer not to use room correction software in your setup ANYWHERE NEAR the AVS Forum -- those guys will eat you and your offspring alive. They just don't want to hear it....say anything remotely differing in opinion when it comes to DIRAC on the new Onkyos, for example, and you'll be cast out as a pariah, destined to walk the earth for all eternity as a demonized forebearer of the coming apocalypse.

Sign of times can't you tell.

 

[PENG]

This is it, in a nutshell....

I don't run any Audyssey in my system (my AVR boasts 2EQ) and always preferred the sound of this approach (along with my own calibration efforts with regard to channel levels, crossovers, etc.).

Indeed, as Shady alluded to, if you have good speakers and a decent room/environment, these room correction schemes aren't really necessary (IMO). In my case, I'm running Polk RTi12 towers for mains, which are well-made speakers, and they're positioned equidistant from the sweet spot (as is the Polk CSi30 center), so my soundstage is rather balanced (the two surrounds are a bit uneven in terms of distance, but I correct for that by setting their distance differences in the AVR) -- I never found a need for Audyssey.

Here's one piece of advice I can give you, my friend Hetfield: DON'T talk about how you prefer not to use room correction software in your setup ANYWHERE NEAR the AVS Forum -- those guys will eat you and your offspring alive. They just don't want to hear it....say anything remotely differing in opinion when it comes to DIRAC on the new Onkyos, for example, and you'll be cast out as a pariah, destined to walk the earth for all eternity as a demonized forebearer of the coming apocalypse.

With due respect, if you look carefully, you will notice which side usually fire the first shot. Fans, followers can be defensive.. Now if we look at the facts cited by at least one PhD who is in neutral position (no apparent conflict of interest), i.e. Dr. Toole, EQ above the transition frequency is a hit and miss thing. If you limit the range to below that though, DL, Audy, AARC, and likely others such as Trinnov, can all yield similar result, similar enough we humans can hardly tell a difference if the same target curve is used. That's in terms of the so called sound quality, obviously there are different features offer by different products.

There are a lot of "if"s, but thank goodness human ears/brains are apparently not as discerning as they are on the low frequencies as they are on the 2-5kHz range.

 

[Pogre]

Indeed, as Shady alluded to, if you have good speakers and a decent room/environment, these room correction schemes aren't really necessary (IMO). In my case, I'm running Polk RTi12 towers for mains, which are well-made speakers, and they're positioned equidistant from the sweet spot (as is the Polk CSi30 center), so my soundstage is rather balanced (the two surrounds are a bit uneven in terms of distance, but I correct for that by setting their distance differences in the AVR) -- I never found a need for Audyssey.

I disagree that it's usless. Look at my before and after charts on the previous page wrt to my bass frequencies and there's no denying Audyssey made a huge improvement by itself. Not perfect, but much better and made it easy for me to dial it in the rest of the way manually. It absolutely made an improvement over using nothing at all, and not everyone does their own set up.

 

[PENG]

I disagree that it's usless. Look at my before and after charts on the previous page wrt to my bass frequencies and there's no denying Audyssey made a huge improvement by itself. Not perfect, but much better and made it easy for me to dial it in the rest of the way manually. It absolutely made an improvement over using nothing at all, and not everyone does their own set up.

I can see one issue, for those who can't, or won't use the Editor App. Below is one that I just plotted for my 2 channel system after a re-run (because I moved the speakers quite a bit now that I have more room beside them.

The AV8801 is not compatible with the App. You can see that Audyssey removed the room gain boost between about 25-60 Hz and then some between 90-100 Hz, and what's worse is that for some reason it put a high shelf like filter between1.1 to 7 kHz, the sensitive range to people with good hearing. In my HT system, the HF range would elevate just slightly as long as I use the REF curve and select the default roll off.

So depending on one's room, AVRs that can't use the App to limit the EQ range, especially if they have no hearing loss n the HF, may suffer a little. The LF should be fine because one can boost the sub levels post Audyssey to regain the room gain.

So I am with you on the "useless" claim that does not apply to people like you and I, but in some cases, and for some people, it could be a valid point. I would say for Audyssey users, the App is a must.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Sign of times can't you tell.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Funny how when Shady originally posted his feelings about room correction he was greeted with pats on the back and even a ribbon reflecting a medal of honor for his efforts....yet here I am being told, in so many other words, nahhhhh....you don't know what you're talking about.

I'll say this, in defense and in closing: Perhaps my assertion of "these systems are useless" was overzealous and premature -- indeed, they're not useless, far from it. I just believe that with good speakers, proper placement and a decently "normal" listening environment (i.e. no cathedral ceilings leading to kitchens with drop ceilings on the same architectural plane), most of these algorithms can be put on the back burner for a good, thorough manual setup.

I'll get back to my thread now, regarding the new AVR...

 

[Pogre]

Funny how when Shady originally posted his feelings about room correction he was greeted with pats on the back and even a ribbon reflecting a medal of honor for his efforts....yet here I am being told, in so many other words, nahhhhh....you don't know what you're talking about.

I'll say this, in defense and in closing: Perhaps my assertion of "these systems are useless" was overzealous and premature -- indeed, they're not useless, far from it. I just believe that with good speakers, proper placement and a decently "normal" listening environment (i.e. no cathedral ceilings leading to kitchens with drop ceilings on the same architectural plane), most of these algorithms can be put on the back burner for a good, thorough manual setup.

I'll get back to my thread now, regarding the new AVR...

I agree. In fact most of the proponents for room correction here recommend limiting it to bass frequencies. Fortunately with the Audyssey editor app you can do just that. You can limit it to strictly below the Schroeder frequency where the room takes over the response and leave the rest alone. You can set it to only apply correction from 80 hz and down if you want. That would leave your speakers virtually untouched if using subs.

It doesn't matter how good your speakers are, the room is in charge of bass.

 

[Hetfield]

Funny how when Shady originally posted his feelings about room correction he was greeted with pats on the back and even a ribbon reflecting a medal of honor for his efforts....yet here I am being told, in so many other words, nahhhhh....you don't know what you're talking about.

I'll say this, in defense and in closing: Perhaps my assertion of "these systems are useless" was overzealous and premature -- indeed, they're not useless, far from it. I just believe that with good speakers, proper placement and a decently "normal" listening environment (i.e. no cathedral ceilings leading to kitchens with drop ceilings on the same architectural plane), most of these algorithms can be put on the back burner for a good, thorough manual setup.

I'll get back to my thread now, regarding the new AVR...

I think room correction is just a helping or starting point. You can't just run it and think everything is perfect and leave everything as is. There a number of things you have to tweak after calibration.
Honestly at this point I'm part of Audyssey because afterwards I know exactly what needs to be changed and go and do it. The Audyssey app certainly makes things easier and it's better.

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[HT4Life]

I disabled Audyssey after years of use, did a quick recalibration by ear, omg really ?????
It sounds so much better. Only one thing, there is a volume issue on different movies playing from my Roku Ultra. I use to use an ATV….done with that too, i like to let my receiver decode. I recalibrated my subs with my MiniDSP, im extremely happy ! Sounds limitless now as it should

 

[Kaskade89052]

I disabled Audyssey after years of use, did a quick recalibration by ear, omg really ?????
It sounds so much better. Only one thing, there is a volume issue on different movies playing from my Roku Ultra. I use to use an ATV….done with that too, i like to let my receiver decode. I recalibrated my subs with my MiniDSP, im extremely happy ! Sounds limitless now as it should

Are you saying you prefer the sound of your system WITHOUT room correction applied?

 

[Hetfield]

Are you saying you prefer the sound of your system WITHOUT room correction applied?

Yeah I have the same question. You turned off Audyssey and just did a calibration with a SPL meter?

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[Kaskade89052]

Yeah I have the same question. You turned off Audyssey and just did a calibration with a SPL meter?

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I'm just curious if others are finding the same thing I did (that dialing everything in without auto calibration or EQ sounds good)...

 

[lovinthehd]

I disabled Audyssey after years of use, did a quick recalibration by ear, omg really ?????
It sounds so much better. Only one thing, there is a volume issue on different movies playing from my Roku Ultra. I use to use an ATV….done with that too, i like to let my receiver decode. I recalibrated my subs with my MiniDSP, im extremely happy ! Sounds limitless now as it should

I'm just curious if others are finding the same thing I did (that dialing everything in without auto calibration or EQ sounds good)...

Preference isn't reference particularly. Would love to see measurements both with Audyssey (and what modes etc) vs without, particularly someone who did setup entirely by ear. Minidsp isn't a "calibrator", it's a way to adjust eq/delay and may just well be best limited to below schroeder frequencies (like many use the Audyssey app on the later versions to do so with). Some get better results after running Audyssey than others, or have different versions, or used more care in initial setup and use of the mic....it varies a lot from what I see around several fora/audio groups. Has both fans and some the very mention of it annoys the hell out of . Personally I've found it beneficial in a few systems, but not all (and don't even have it in one, but have three that do, altho none can use the app and two are XT, one XT32).

 

[Hetfield]

I'm just curious if others are finding the same thing I did (that dialing everything in without auto calibration or EQ sounds good)...

I'm curious as well. I hope we get some solid answers.

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[Pogre]

Some prefer it and some don't. I mainly focus on bass frequencies myself, and IME the more careful you are with mic placement and following instructions the better results you'll get. I think it's largely room dependent too. I'll bet some rooms just aren't room correction friendly and Audyssey just plain isn't enough. It's not enough for my room by itself, but definitely flattens out my bass response. I use a MiniDSP to dial it the rest of the way in. Based on my measurements tho, it does a great job of cutting peaks but doesn't address the dips quite as well.

This is my bass response before and after running Audyssey.

It is unquestionably objectively waaayyy more linear after running Audyssey! I would even go as far as saying that's quite an impressive improvement. Not perfect tho. It took care of any boominess but those low spots left it sounding thin. It sure made it easy for me to finish dialing it in with a MiniDSP tho. Seems to do very well with levels and distances too.

 

[Hetfield]

I actually like the sound with Audyssey on, just curious what others may think or more importantly experienced.

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[Kaskade89052]

Preference isn't reference particularly.

That's very true -- I prefer such systems turned off, as I feel like I am hearing the soundtrack (and my speakers) as they were meant to be heard, warts and all (not so much with my speakers, but...).

particularly someone who did setup entirely by ear.

I've always set up my systems by ear.