The freedom convoy of antivaxers here in Canada are a bunch of facist pigs.

[Danzilla31]

If you had the Moderna vaccine for the first 2 jabs, it contained 3 times more of the mRNA fraction than the Pfizer. Moderna would have later cut the dose by 50% for the booster shots.

I had the Pfizer for all 3

 

[Alex2507]

The data

??? What data?

Moderna would have later cut the dose by 50% for the booster shots.

I know that the booster is half the regular dose but if you're really sick, they still give you the full dose of Moderna for shot #3.

 

[Cruise Missile]

Not a political position here, just personal anecdote.

I am vaxxed, so is my wife. We use masks too.

I caught covid, and then gave it to her.
Seems the vax neither stopped me from getting it or kept me from spreading it.

I don't see the point.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Not a political position here, just personal anecdote.

I am vaxxed, so is my wife. We use masks too.

I caught covid, and then gave it to her.
Seems the vax neither stopped me from getting it or kept me from spreading it.

I don't see the point.

It has never been claimed that vaccination will prevent anyone from being infected. It will reduce the possibility of becoming infected - although less effectively with the omnicron variant. However, what is more important, is that it significantly reduces the likelihood of requiring hospitalization or death.

Right now, where I live, unvaccinated people are being hospitalized due to COVID at a rate 4 times that of people who are double-vaccinated.

And, although 7% of Nova Scotians eligible to be vaccinated have refused it, this group has had 30% of COVID deaths since Dec 8th.

That is the point.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you are under 65 and in good health, you have .05% chance of dying. ( I will and did take that chance.). If you get the virus and survive your risk of getting the virus again and risk of a serious adverse response is like 8 times better than if you got the shot.

But, if you got COVID, then get the vaccine, you have a MUCH higher immune response than if you just had COVID.

If you had the vaccine, and you get COVID, your chance of serious side effects is diminished significantly.

If you have the vaccine you are marginally better off, regarding spreading the virus, but only for a few months.

Vaccines barely have anything to do with others. They protect the individual who gets it the most, but if it limits the number who get it, then it protects others significantly because that's one less carrier of the virus. It's just been a tough go with COVID.

Bottom line, the only reason tho get the shot is to protect yourself. Given that most of the Americas have a relatively healthy population, only those at risk need to get the vaccine. If your neighbor doesn’t get the shot, it should not bother you at all.

So, the hospital beds filling up with unvaccinated and making it so that people who actually need surgery can't get in isn't an actual issue in this nation? I actually know someone who died because they couldn't get in for a planned surgery because beds filled up and their surgery was delayed to the point where things got out of control for him, and they never caught it in time. This is directly the fault of the unvaccinated.
You also speak of death as if that's the ONLY potential outcome here. The complications of COVID can be significant. Vaccines help lessen the chance of complications.

The vaccine has been proven not to cause harm to individuals who are able to take it, and has been shown to dramatically decrease the number of people who need medical attention due to the virus. So, it goes well beyond a personal decision.

 

[highfigh]

Well, I don't know any who had a bad experience following vaccination with either the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccine. Their age varies from 30 to 97

A friend, his wife and their son all became ill after the booster. He had a particularly severe case early last year and ended up in the hospital- the booster put him down for five days. I'll get more details when we have lunch on Thursday. He's in his upper 50s.

AFAIK, the Moderna vaccine wasn't granted full approval until very recently- not sure if they might have received that one but the J&J hasn't received many glowing reports.

 

[highfigh]

It is common knowledge, or at least should be, but the mainstream media does not cover it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg.
I acknowledged that there is a slight difference…but the point is that if we everyone can get and spread the virus, there is no need to get the shot for “the greater good”.
I say if you want the shot you should get it, but we should stop vilifying the unvaccinated.

If someone is vaccinated, the virus won't be able to replicate in their body, which means it won't be shed as it would from an unvaccinated person. It's not about physical contact, it's about the minute droplets from their breath (especially when sneezing and coughing) in aerosol form- this remains suspended in the air much longer than larger droplets and that's why the 6' spacing should be maintained. As soon as someone without a good N95 mask coughs or sneezes, they should leave the area if they didn't cover their mouth & nose well.

I'm not running around with my hair on fire WRT COVID, but I got it and have no idea how. I don't spend much time with people I don't know, I maintain distance and avoid going to places where I might be surrounded by random people. Trust me- it sucked. It still sucks but I'm improving. It's preventing me from working as I normally would and I really can't afford that. Fortunately, my customers are very understanding but their patience is waning.

If you don't get the shot, don't have obvious symptoms and don't maintain some kind of distance between yourself and others, it's safe to assume that you have or will infect someone else. Statistically, if you shed the virus effectively to 500 people, it's likely that one or more of them will die from it.

Do you still like your opinion?

 

[cpd]

It is common knowledge, or at least should be, but the mainstream media does not cover it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg.
I acknowledged that there is a slight difference…but the point is that if we everyone can get and spread the virus, there is no need to get the shot for “the greater good”.
I say if you want the shot you should get it, but we should stop vilifying the unvaccinated.

Your statement was that there was data showing that unvaccinated people are at no greater risk of transmitting the disease than the vaccinated. In response to my request for that data you claim it is common knowledge, or would be if the "MSM" would report on it. You then cite an article from that very same MSM. All that article reports, however, is that the CDC director said vaccines cannot prevent transmission -- a statement that is both not controversial and does nothing to support your position that vaxed people spread the disease at the same rate as unvaxed.

By the way, the reason vaccines are not as effective as they used to be is because people have refused to take measures to stop the spread of the disease permitting it to mutate. The unvaccinated are the weakest link in the proverbial chain.

Listen, get a vax, don't get a vax, there's nothing I can do about it. But if you sleep well at night because you care about others but don't believe you are more of a risk to the public than me, then I suggest you keep researching. Maybe try some of those MSM sources you like to rely on.

 

[Lazasar]

??? What data?

I know that the booster is half the regular dose but if you're really sick, they still give you the full dose of Moderna for shot #3.

All of this information is readily available. This is why countries are beginning to lift mandates. Spend a few hours doing some research.

 

[Lazasar]

But, if you got COVID, then get the vaccine, you have a MUCH higher immune response than if you just had COVID.

If you had the vaccine, and you get COVID, your chance of serious side effects is diminished significantly.


Vaccines barely have anything to do with others. They protect the individual who gets it the most, but if it limits the number who get it, then it protects others significantly because that's one less carrier of the virus. It's just been a tough go with COVID.


So, the hospital beds filling up with unvaccinated and making it so that people who actually need surgery can't get in isn't an actual issue in this nation? I actually know someone who died because they couldn't get in for a planned surgery because beds filled up and their surgery was delayed to the point where things got out of control for him, and they never caught it in time. This is directly the fault of the unvaccinated.
You also speak of death as if that's the ONLY potential outcome here. The complications of COVID can be significant. Vaccines help lessen the chance of complications.

The vaccine has been proven not to cause harm to individuals who are able to take it, and has been shown to dramatically decrease the number of people who need medical attention due to the virus. So, it goes well beyond a personal decision.

That is a failure of the healthcare system to prepare. Instead of offering ZERO treatment to those that are positive and sending them home until their lips turn blue, they should have been treating them with available treatments. Instead of firing employees for being unvaccinated, they should have been hiring. If you ate under 60 and in good health, you were at very little risk of being hospitalized. Last time I checked the US has not mandated medical treatment upon people that were at risk of being hospitalized….drug users, heavy drinkers, smokers or obese people. This is no different. The overwhelming common denominator of those that died is age. Instead of saying, “we follow the science” we should have been actually doing it.

lastly, you comment about being better off getting the shot even after recovering is not true based upon some of the most recent studies….additionally the efficacy of the shot wanes almost immediately and is not effective with Omicron. Lastly, there is zero evidence that there are no long term side effects of a single dose of mRNA vaccine let alone a continuous series of them. There is, however, animal tests that suggest devastating long term effects.

 

[Lazasar]

Your statement was that there was data showing that unvaccinated people are at no greater risk of transmitting the disease than the vaccinated. In response to my request for that data you claim it is common knowledge, or would be if the "MSM" would report on it. You then cite an article from that very same MSM. All that article reports, however, is that the CDC director said vaccines cannot prevent transmission -- a statement that is both not controversial and does nothing to support your position that vaxed people spread the disease at the same rate as unvaxed.

By the way, the reason vaccines are not as effective as they used to be is because people have refused to take measures to stop the spread of the disease permitting it to mutate. The unvaccinated are the weakest link in the proverbial chain.

Listen, get a vax, don't get a vax, there's nothing I can do about it. But if you sleep well at night because you care about others but don't believe you are more of a risk to the public than me, then I suggest you keep researching. Maybe try some of those MSM sources you like to rely on.

FYI, I am a conservative and used MSN for two reasons:1. I assumed if I got it from Fox you would reject it and 2. It was quoting the CDC and I assumed that was a source you would accept. The problem is not the unvaccinated. The problem is an ever changing virus that we mistakenly believe we can resolve with a vaccine. If you care to learn more, do your own research. My statements are all supported by data. Why are you so invested in vilifying millions of Americans who do not agree with you? I have followed the science since day one and arrive at a different opinion than some, but the reality is there is no consensus within the medical community. I am not saying you should not get the shot if you are concerned about it, I am saying there is nothing righteous in getting the shot and I believe the potential risk to society of the vaccine regimen is far greater than the long term risk of the virus. Time will tell.

 

[SithZedi]

Must admit I can't follow every change in transmission rates, use of masks, et al. but I wear masks everywhere but in the car alone. I am nor pretend to be a COVID expert and I read all that I can about it.

Our Leaders and the Media want us to wear masks indoors, keep our distances, and avoid crowds/superspreader situations, etc, even if we are 3x vaxxed. Do I have that right?

If so, then one of the biggest problems in general public's uptake of information is that same Leaders talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Rules for thee, not for me.

Here's just one of hundreds of examples. I use this example because of the great pretzels the Media turned into to justify it and tell us to not pay attention. Understand this too place before Omnicron but don't think that mattered..

 

[highfigh]

FYI, I am a conservative and used MSN for two reasons:1. I assumed if I got it from Fox you would reject it and 2. It was quoting the CDC and I assumed that was a source you would accept. The problem is not the unvaccinated. The problem is an ever changing virus that we mistakenly believe we can resolve with a vaccine. If you care to learn more, do your own research. My statements are all supported by data. Why are you so invested in vilifying millions of Americans who do not agree with you? I have followed the science since day one and arrive at a different opinion than some, but the reality is there is no consensus within the medical community. I am not saying you should not get the shot if you are concerned about it, I am saying there is nothing righteous in getting the shot and I believe the potential risk to society of the vaccine regimen is far greater than the long term risk of the virus. Time will tell.

It's not about resolving, it's about managing it. With seven billion + people on the planet, eliminating it outright would be impossible, but vaccinating the most vulnerable manages it best. However, very few people are qualified to determine their own level of vulnerability. If the fact that I haven't had a regular cold in almost two years was any indication, I shouldn't have caught COVID or if I did, my case wouldn't have been a problem. I did and it was. Was it as bad as the worst? No, but after more than five weeks, I'm still dealing with the effects.

Not being vaccinated AND being one of the most vulnerable is a very bad combination- making decisions without considering the possibilities, which so many have done, has resulted in many deaths and long-term disabilities. Even people who were supposedly healthy have become very ill, are suffering long-term effects and have died.

Know this- the virus can live on someone who shows no symptoms and those people can shed it to people who ARE going to become sick. There are only a few ways to prevent this.

For the record, I don't like any of this, from start to finish. Bad/changing info, lying, cover-ups- it's like a f&cking spy movie where someone tries to poison everyone and they all have their own opinions about how to stop it.

 

[Lazasar]

If someone is vaccinated, the virus won't be able to replicate in their body, which means it won't be shed as it would from an unvaccinated person. It's not about physical contact, it's about the minute droplets from their breath (especially when sneezing and coughing) in aerosol form- this remains suspended in the air much longer than larger droplets and that's why the 6' spacing should be maintained. As soon as someone without a good N95 mask coughs or sneezes, they should leave the area if they didn't cover their mouth & nose well.

I'm not running around with my hair on fire WRT COVID, but I got it and have no idea how. I don't spend much time with people I don't know, I maintain distance and avoid going to places where I might be surrounded by random people. Trust me- it sucked. It still sucks but I'm improving. It's preventing me from working as I normally would and I really can't afford that. Fortunately, my customers are very understanding but their patience is waning.

If you don't get the shot, don't have obvious symptoms and don't maintain some kind of distance between yourself and others, it's safe to assume that you have or will infect someone else. Statistically, if you shed the virus effectively to 500 people, it's likely that one or more of them will die from it.

Do you still like your opinion?

I am 59, in good health and I had delta in August. Yes, it was a bitch, never been sicker. However, I treated with Ivermectin, supplements and ate two squares a day even when I did not want to. I now have hard-earned immunity. You do not spread the virus if you are asymptomatic. If you are symptomatic stay home. There is conflicting data on viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated. Here is a study that contradicts an earlier study…. https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people.

 

[highfigh]

You do not spread the virus if you are asymptomatic.

Here is a study that contradicts an earlier study…. https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people.

How would it be possible for someone to not spread the virus- the range of symptoms is known to vary wildly, but the virus still exists in their bodies, in whatever viability is possible.

There's always a study that contradicts another. That's part of the reason so many aren't doing what's needed to avoid this.

 

[Lazasar]

It's not about resolving, it's about managing it. With seven billion + people on the planet, eliminating it outright would be impossible, but vaccinating the most vulnerable manages it best. However, very few people are qualified to determine their own level of vulnerability. If the fact that I haven't had a regular cold in almost two years was any indication, I shouldn't have caught COVID or if I did, my case wouldn't have been a problem. I did and it was. Was it as bad as the worst? No, but after more than five weeks, I'm still dealing with the effects.

Not being vaccinated AND being one of the most vulnerable is a very bad combination- making decisions without considering the possibilities, which so many have done, has resulted in many deaths and long-term disabilities. Even people who were supposedly healthy have become very ill, are suffering long-term effects and have died.

Know this- the virus can live on someone who shows no symptoms and those people can shed it to people who ARE going to become sick. There are only a few ways to prevent this.

For the record, I don't like any of this, from start to finish. Bad/changing info, lying, cover-ups- it's like a f&cking spy movie where someone tries to poison everyone and they all have their own opinions about how to stop it.

I agree with most of what you said, however, I believe that even the CDC acknowledges that there is no asymptomatic transmission of the virus. Lastly, Omicron is NOT Delta. It is not as deadly and the vaccines are not effective against it. I know this is purely antidotal, but my 78 yr old aunt is recovering from Omicron now. She said it was rough, but she appears to be just fine….78 is a very high risk group and she has cancer. I share this because we need to recognize that we are not facing the same disease process as we were for the prior two years and we should not be addressing it the same way.

 

[Lazasar]

How would it be possible for someone to not spread the virus- the range of symptoms is known to vary wildly, but the virus still exists in their bodies, in whatever viability is possible.

There's always a study that contradicts another. That's part of the reason so many aren't doing what's needed to avoid this.

I recognize there is conflicting data but we know enough that what we have done did not work, other than to limit loss of life temporarily (which is a good thing). However whether I get a vax or not has zero impact on society and the facts seem to support that if we had vaccinated the most at risk and the rest of society got the virus, our natural immunity would better protect us as a society. Remember, lockdowns cost lives, lockdowns harm our children and a bad economy harms not the wealthy, but everyone else. We have to stop acting like those that do not agree with us are the enemy.

 

[highfigh]

I agree with most of what you said, however, I believe that even the CDC acknowledges that there is no asymptomatic transmission of the virus. Lastly, Omicron is NOT Delta. It is not as deadly and the vaccines are not effective against it. I know this is purely antidotal, but my 78 yr old aunt is recovering from Omicron now. She said it was rough, but she appears to be just fine….78 is a very high risk group and she has cancer. I share this because we need to recognize that we are not facing the same disease process as we were for the prior two years and we should not be addressing it the same way.

From the CDC paper, near the top (second of three major points)-

"Asymptomatic patients shed the virus for a shorter time than symptomatic patients.", so it does happen.

https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/pdf/public_pdfs/2020-06-12-Science-Update_FINAL_public.pdf

Sorry to see this about your aunt- is she using immune-suppression therapy?

 

[lovinthehd]

When did you have your 2nd Moderna jab? The Moderna mRNA portion of the vaccine originally contained 3 times the portion of the Pfizer's. Then that dose was halved later on. I'm confident that you wouldn't experience anything severe with the lower dose booster shot. If I were you, I would verify to have what I tell you confirmed.

My two first jabs were the Pfizer while my booster shot last December was the Moderna. I only experienced a mild pain for 3 days near the injection spot.

2nd shot back in June.

 

[Verdinut]

I had the Pfizer for all 3

As human beings, we have a biochemical individuality, so we are subjected to react differently to expositions to various chemicals including drugs and vaccines.