Electric Vehicles?

[John Parks]

In all seriousness, I was very interested in this plug-in hybrid:

2021 Volvo V60 Polestar. It's turbocharged, supercharged and electric! All combining for a good 400 hp. If we lived in sane times, a used model would be somewhat affordable. As the market stands these days, not so much...

 

[lovinthehd]

If I were younger and still working....then an EV car/truck would be the way I'd go but would still like a few more choices too. Tesla Plaid looks fun, and that Lucid is beautiful and there's some other interesting stuff I've seen that's not quite here yet. However, I barely drive as it is these days so fine with my old ICE powered truck. I have been loving my class 1 e-mountain bike (pedal assist), and have been considering a throttle e-bike like the Sur-Ron X or its cousin, the Segway X260. We have a local EV maker, but not a car per se, called the Arcimoto which look kinda fun for summer weather. Definitely some fun stuff in the EV world....

 

[cpp]

When did you get that Model S?

Feb 2020.

Yes the charging stations on the Road and you have to be really careful where you want to drive, a lot of those nice pretty back country roads through small towns don't have charging stations. But !, let me put a But in there. Around town, it was nice. Going out of town you need to pick your routes carefully and depending on the overall mileage if its above your battery reserve time, add a few hours to your trip. . Right now, until they can get EV established, a Hybrid to me is the way to go if you travel out past 300 miles and/or they really up the mileage. .

I was wondering how those people in Portand where 10's of thousand are without power due to teh storm. And what about those with EV cars, this is interesting " According to AAA's “Cold Weather Can Cut Electric Car Range by Over 40%”, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, but the loss leaps to 41% with the heater on full blast. ". That's why for the wife and I, if we do go back to EV one day, one EV and one with gas.

 

[Jeepers]

Are the electrical networks (in the world) currently ready to cope with the increased power consumption to load the batteries of the BEV's, to heat the homes during the winter and cool them during the summer ?
The whole idea is to be less dependent on fossil fuels.

Due to the climate change earth is warming up so more power will be needed during the summer for the airco's.

How will the increased electricity consumption be taken care of; via 'green' energy sources only and will that be sufficient or via nuclear power or ... ? Using more fossil fuel sources defeats the purpose of going electrical.

 

[Swerd]

View attachment 52679
Like this

A note from the distant past: My first car was a 1972 Fiat 124 Spyder in that blue color. Italians would never call that color 'French Racing Blue'! Instead, they called it Mediterranean Blue. It was my first (and last) automotive love.

I bought that car in southern Italy, in a town called Bari. It cost $2,400 new! I was stationed nearby while in the Navy. It was a lovely car, as long as I was in warm Italy, and near Italian mechanics who were familiar with it's Weber double barrel carburetor, tuned to meet the new US emissions standards. The USA version, with a 4 cylinder, 1.6 liter, dual overhead camshaft engine developed 125 hp. The Italian version, same engine with two single barrel Webers, and no emissions controls, produced 135 hp.

I shipped it back home, where it stayed until I came back from my 2-year tour of duty in Alaska. My father drove it to and from work. I'm glad I never saw him struggle with the clutch. After getting out of the Navy, I went to grad school in Connecticut. That Fiat did poorly there, the climate was colder, the body rusted badly from the heavily salted roads, and I never found mechanics who knew how to tune it's engine. I was much too busy in school to take care of that car. That's when I learned that FIAT stood for Fix It Again Tony! That's also when I learned that I should never love anything that can't love me back.

 

[lovinthehd]

A note from the distant past: My first car was a 1972 Fiat 124 Spyder in that blue color. Italians would never call that color 'French Racing Blue'! Instead, they called it Mediterranean Blue. It was my first (and last) automotive love.

I bought that car in southern Italy, in a town called Bari. It cost $2,400 new! I was stationed nearby while in the Navy. It was a lovely car, as long as I was in warm Italy, and near Italian mechanics who were familiar with it's Weber double barrel carburetor built and tuned to meet the new US emissions standards. The USA version, with a 4 cylinder, 1.6 liter, dual overhead camshaft engine developed 125 hp. The Italian version, same engine with two single barrel Webers, produced 135 hp.

I shipped it back home, where it stayed until I came back from my 2-year tour of duty in Alaska. My father drove it to and from work. I'm glad I never saw him struggle with the clutch. After getting out of the Navy, I went to grad school in Connecticut. That Fiat did poorly there, the climate was colder, the body rusted badly from the heavily salted roads, and I never found mechanics who knew how to tune it's engine. I was much too busy in school to take care of that car. That's when I learned that FIAT stood for Fix It Again Tony! That's also when I learned that I should never love anything that can't love you back.

Always liked the styling of the 124 Spyder....had a friend who had one....it was a constant headache. We had a Fiat sedan in the family at one point that had extreme timing chain issues IIRC. Never wanted to own one. I did just look at the current 124 Spyder models.....they still look good!

 

[Swerd]

Feb 2020.

Yes the charging stations on the Road and you have to be really careful where you want to drive, a lot of those nice pretty back country roads through small towns don't have charging stations. But !, let me put a But in there. Around town, it was nice. Going out of town you need to pick your routes carefully and depending on the overall mileage if its above your battery reserve time, add a few hours to your trip. . Right now, until they can get EV established, a Hybrid to me is the way to go if you travel out past 300 miles and/or they really up the mileage. .

I was wondering how those people in Portand where 10's of thousand are without power due to teh storm. And what about those with EV cars, this is interesting " According to AAA's “Cold Weather Can Cut Electric Car Range by Over 40%”, EVs often lose 12% of their range in cold weather, but the loss leaps to 41% with the heater on full blast. ". That's why for the wife and I, if we do go back to EV one day, one EV and one with gas.

That sums up the dilemma between EV, hybrid, or all gas, pretty well. I appreciate your perspective. Thanks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Our ModelS was in the shop more than we drove it. ...

You should have built a nice garage for it.

 

[davidscott]

I recently purchased a 2020 KIA Sportage in September 2020. I've just went over 5000 miles so only driving around 4000 or so miles a year. I think my next car will be an electric but that will be quite a few years from now. Hopefully the battery and charging stations issues will be worked out by then.

 

[flyboylr45]

In the past month or two, I've started to think about getting an electric vehicle (EV). I now own a 2000 Volvo S70, with 140,000 miles. It's aging, but I've kept it in a garage, and the engine and transmission are in excellent condition. It has manual transmission, gets ~26 mpg in local stop & go driving, and ~32 mpg on the highway. That gives it as much as 500+ miles driving range on a tank of gas, if 5th gear is used.

I much prefer manual transmission over automatic. All but one car I've owned has had manual transmission. I really like my Volvo in general; it's front seats are excellent, by far the best I've ever owned. This S70 (4-door sedan) dates from before Ford Motors' purchased Volvo (their cost cutting efforts took a big toll on Volvo's performance and interior comfort). Ford gave up after a few years, selling Volvo to a Chinese holding company who claimed they wanted to manage the money, while they turned engineering back to the Volvo people.

Manual vs. automatic transmission seems to now be a problem. Fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmission. I've seen advertising claiming modern automatic transmissions actually get better mileage than manuals. I doubt that. I also know from years of experience that manual transmission gives me much better speed control of a car, especially when driving in snow or ice. People who only drive automatics don't understand the large effect engine breaking has with standard transmission. Finally, I find driving an automatic is simply boring. A car with manual transmission keeps me much more involved in driving – something I like.

My initial thought about EVs came about because of the transmission thing. Instead of a car with an internal combustion engine, or hybrid, with an automatic transmission, I wondered if an EV might be more acceptable. I figured, why not go all in instead of half-way in? I have not test driven an EV, so, that's a big unanswered question.

The same thinking goes for the lack of a conventional dashboard. The most recent Tesla models seem to have all their instrument panel on a large video screen, off to the driver's right. It will take loosing some old habits and learning new ones to get used to that. Why not jump in all the way, instead of going half-way in?

And, as I get older, seating comfort, and especially ease of getting in & out of a car, become more important. Too many modern cars can be a problem for me, where my Volvo is quite easy to get in & out.

The other VERY BIG issue for any EV, is driving range. I've looked into Tesla Model Y and Model 3. So far, the Model Y looks good, on paper. The dual motor, AWD version of the Model Y is said to have a range of 326 miles. However, the high price, about $60,000, is a potential show-stopper. The smaller Model 3 (also with dual motors) can go as far as 353 miles, and costs ~$50,000. Still very high. I'll have to try both the 3 and the Y before I know which size works best for me. If I go for an EV, I will get a 240 Volt recharger for my garage. So, I have to add that cost to that of the car.

What other EVs are worth looking into? What about plug-in hybrids?

What things decrease EV range?

• EV energy consumption is highly dependent on speed. For example, the very expensive Tesla Model S requires 10 kW (14 hp) at 70 mph (110 km/h), and 31 kW (42 hp) at 100 mph (160 km/h).
  
  
• Climate control, battery conditioning, etc. may consume 15-25%, depending on outside temperature. EVs can lose ≥40% of their range in cold weather, at ≤20°F (-7°C) when heating the interior cabin. Some EVs use heat pumps (such as the Tesla Model Y and Model 3). That should be more energy efficient in cold weather than other EVs with resistance heaters. What about air conditioning in hot weather? Will a heat pump result in less energy consumption than standard air conditioning compressors? What about power windows, adjustable seats, or heated seats?
  
  
• Tires – EVs are heavy compared to similar sized internal combustion vehicles (ICV). The added weight is due to the batteries. Tires must be larger for that. In addition, electric motors have more low RPM torque than IC engines. More stress on tires. Finally, because EVs are so quiet compared to ICVs, tire road noise becomes more noticeable. As a result, tires are larger, must run quieter, and are probably more expensive. Will they require more frequent replacement too?

What else should I know about EVs? I have not yet driven any EV, so my opinion about them is not yet formed.

If you haven’t driven one yet, go drive it. That’ll probably make up your mind. I’ve had many cars in the past. My last big V8 was a C7 Corvette. I now have a Model 3 Performance. It’s crazy fast, at least up to 100mph, and quiet. No Maintenace. My wife has a Model Y and it’s super comfortable for the family. Don’t really see us going back to an ICE car. Plenty of superchargers in Florida. Love charging at home.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes, cold weather has a large negative effect on any battery. I thought I mentioned that in my first post, but it looks like I focused on the battery draw from heating a car's interior.

I don't tow anything with my car, and don't plan to in the future.
I've never heard of Lucid, but I'll look into now. Thanks for that tip.
VW has been on my sh!t list ever since they cheated on EPA emissions testing with their USA diesel engines. In my opinion, they still have a lot of explaining and apologizing to do.

While you're looking into Lucid (assuming you aren't scared away by its price tag) do also look into Rivian.
VW has much bigger and scarier skeletons buried in their past than the diesel "scandal". Just curious - does your sh1tlist extend to VW-owned brands like Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Ducati?

 

[Swerd]

If you haven’t driven one yet, go drive it. That’ll probably make up your mind. I’ve had many cars in the past. My last big V8 was a C7 Corvette. I now have a Model 3 Performance. It’s crazy fast, at least up to 100mph, and quiet. No Maintenace. My wife has a Model Y and it’s super comfortable for the family. Don’t really see us going back to an ICE car. Plenty of superchargers in Florida. Love charging at home.

I do plan on driving both the Model 3 and the Y. But not until things settle down after this latest Covid-19 wave. If I end up getting one, I'll certainly get a 240 V charger in my garage. And I'll look into getting solar panels on the house. But I might decide no to the whole thing. That's why I started this thread.

I appreciate your experience with Teslas. No maintenance and no more gasoline are big pluses.

 

[Swerd]

While you're looking into Lucid (assuming you aren't scared away by its price tag) do also look into Rivian.

I'll look into both, even though Lucid and Rivian are new names to me. Those price tags are huge, but this may be the last car I'll buy.

VW has much bigger and scarier skeletons buried in their past than the diesel "scandal". Just curious - does your sh1tlist extend to VW-owned brands like Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Ducati?

I guess I was greatly disappointed to learn that VW lied about it's diesel engines. Did they really think that Americans were too dumb to figure it out? Like many in my generation, I learned to drive a stick shift in a VW Beetle. Those were popular, inexpensive, and reliable cars in the 1960s. They were the anti-Detroit car. It was disappointing to learn that VW management was as dishonest as many other US car makers.

I was always aware of Ferdinand Porsche's and VW's past with Nazi Germany. It's association with Audi, etc. came much later. None of those cars were ever on my mildly interested list.

It's interesting how many German, Japanese, and even Korean car makers have growing lists of car makes. The three Detroit makers used to do that until lost business led them to pare their stables. Remember GM's Pontiac & Oldsmobile; Ford's Mercury, Edsel, & Thunderbird; or Chrysler's Plymouth, DeSoto, & Imperial? Not to mention American Motors (Nash, Rambler, & others) and last but not least, Studebaker.

 

[flyboylr45]

I do plan on driving both the Model 3 and the Y. But not until things settle down after this latest Covid-19 wave. If I end up getting one, I'll certainly get a 240 V charger in my garage. And I'll look into getting solar panels on the house. But I might decide no to the whole thing. That's why I started this thread.

I appreciate your experience with Teslas. No maintenance and no more gasoline are big pluses.

Definitely get the 240v outlet. We have one car on the 240v and the other charges on a regular 110v outlet. Never been an issue but our commute is 14 miles round trip. We really could get by with the 110v but, the 240v makes it never a worry about charging.

The Lucid is a beautiful car and I bet it’s amazing. The Rivian also looks good but I’m waiting for the Cybertruck at some point.

We also have Tesla for solar panels in the house so the cars pretty much charge for free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mikado463]

Plenty of superchargers in Florida. Love charging at home.

yep and there's the rub(for now), last I looked there were 49 more states in the US of A !
In many parts of the US EV's are just not convenient (yet)

Anybody watch last night on the NBC Sports channel the cannonball run across the US for the 5 EV's ? rather funny with regards to the hassles of 'charging' ....

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, but with 750 hp on tap, it's a fun 200 miles!

*"Overpriced Volkswagen..." As are Audis, Bentlys, Bugattis and Lamborghinis (amongst others) if you want to go down that road. Since Porsche SE is the majority owner of the Volkswagen Group, VWs are, in actuality, underpriced Porsches!

Ever see a VW Phaeton? One of my customers had one and we went up to their boat, so I could see about doing some AV work- that car had some serious balls! Apparently, it had a 12 cylinder engine. Unfortunately for him, when the transmission failed, the car was uneconomical to repair.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

yep and there's the rub(for now), last I looked there were 49 more states in the US of A !
In many parts of the US EV's are just not convenient (yet)

Anybody watch last night on the NBC Sports channel the cannonball run across the US for the 5 EV's ? rather funny with regards to the hassles of 'charging' ....

I am a big fan of UK's Top Gear (Clarkson/Hammond/May) - a decade ago they did a few episodes with EV cars and I can clearly see now that most of their issues were addressed with time - charging time (Latest Level 3 800-900v charge systems allow for a 20-30mins charge to 80%), obliviously range, and charging stations availability.
Despite these improvements, I know that we still have a VERY long road ahead of us before EV cars and chargers truly become as convenient and fast as gas stations.

EV cars selection is still very limited and expensive. I've seen the maths on EV vs ICE car long-term ownership but most of these calculations assume 15k miles per year driving, which I'd have to say is 2-3 times higher than my average per year mileage on any of my cars. I believe that it takes a combination of living in mostly sunny locations AND having a need to drive for 20-30k miles per year to gain the most benefit from EV.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Ever see a VW Phaeton? One of my customers had one and we went up to their boat, so I could see about doing some AV work- that car had some serious balls! Apparently, it had a 12 cylinder engine. Unfortunately for him, when the transmission failed, the car was uneconomical to repair.

 

[Mikado463]

Don't blame him, I'd jump in the back seat with Danielle also

 

[John Parks]

Ever see a VW Phaeton? One of my customers had one and we went up to their boat, so I could see about doing some AV work- that car had some serious balls! Apparently, it had a 12 cylinder engine. Unfortunately for him, when the transmission failed, the car was uneconomical to repair.

Indeed - fabulous car, stupid move on VW's part!