flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
Here’s the thing, most people don’t do cannonball races. Most charging on trips is around 10 minutes, give or take a few. Long distance planning for a road trip doesn’t have you charging to 80%. It gives you enough charge to the next stop to charge. The fastest charging happens when the battery around 20% or so. So the stops are enough that a normal bathroom break and you’re back on the road. 180 miles of range added to the car is about 2:40 minute drive. Most people are ready to get out and stretch by that time anyways, specially with kids.

Even then, most people don’t really do long distance trips all the time.


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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
In the past month or two, I've started to think about getting an electric vehicle (EV). I now own a 2000 Volvo S70, with 140,000 miles. It's aging, but I've kept it in a garage, and the engine and transmission are in excellent condition. It has manual transmission, gets ~26 mpg in local stop & go driving, and ~32 mpg on the highway. That gives it as much as 500+ miles driving range on a tank of gas, if 5th gear is used.

I much prefer manual transmission over automatic. All but one car I've owned has had manual transmission. I really like my Volvo in general; it's front seats are excellent, by far the best I've ever owned. This S70 (4-door sedan) dates from before Ford Motors' purchased Volvo (their cost cutting efforts took a big toll on Volvo's performance and interior comfort). Ford gave up after a few years, selling Volvo to a Chinese holding company who claimed they wanted to manage the money, while they turned engineering back to the Volvo people.

Manual vs. automatic transmission seems to now be a problem. Fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmission. I've seen advertising claiming modern automatic transmissions actually get better mileage than manuals. I doubt that. I also know from years of experience that manual transmission gives me much better speed control of a car, especially when driving in snow or ice. People who only drive automatics don't understand the large effect engine breaking has with standard transmission. Finally, I find driving an automatic is simply boring. A car with manual transmission keeps me much more involved in driving – something I like.

My initial thought about EVs came about because of the transmission thing. Instead of a car with an internal combustion engine, or hybrid, with an automatic transmission, I wondered if an EV might be more acceptable. I figured, why not go all in instead of half-way in? I have not test driven an EV, so, that's a big unanswered question.

The same thinking goes for the lack of a conventional dashboard. The most recent Tesla models seem to have all their instrument panel on a large video screen, off to the driver's right. It will take loosing some old habits and learning new ones to get used to that. Why not jump in all the way, instead of going half-way in?

And, as I get older, seating comfort, and especially ease of getting in & out of a car, become more important. Too many modern cars can be a problem for me, where my Volvo is quite easy to get in & out.

The other VERY BIG issue for any EV, is driving range. I've looked into Tesla Model Y and Model 3. So far, the Model Y looks good, on paper. The dual motor, AWD version of the Model Y is said to have a range of 326 miles. However, the high price, about $60,000, is a potential show-stopper. The smaller Model 3 (also with dual motors) can go as far as 353 miles, and costs ~$50,000. Still very high. I'll have to try both the 3 and the Y before I know which size works best for me. If I go for an EV, I will get a 240 Volt recharger for my garage. So, I have to add that cost to that of the car.

What other EVs are worth looking into? What about plug-in hybrids?

What things decrease EV range?
  • EV energy consumption is highly dependent on speed. For example, the very expensive Tesla Model S requires 10 kW (14 hp) at 70 mph (110 km/h), and 31 kW (42 hp) at 100 mph (160 km/h).

  • Climate control, battery conditioning, etc. may consume 15-25%, depending on outside temperature. EVs can lose ≥40% of their range in cold weather, at ≤20°F (-7°C) when heating the interior cabin. Some EVs use heat pumps (such as the Tesla Model Y and Model 3). That should be more energy efficient in cold weather than other EVs with resistance heaters. What about air conditioning in hot weather? Will a heat pump result in less energy consumption than standard air conditioning compressors? What about power windows, adjustable seats, or heated seats?

  • Tires – EVs are heavy compared to similar sized internal combustion vehicles (ICV). The added weight is due to the batteries. Tires must be larger for that. Low rolling resistance is critical for EVs. In addition, electric motors have more low RPM torque than IC engines. More stress on tires. Finally, because EVs are so quiet compared to ICVs, tire road noise becomes more noticeable. As a result, tires are larger, have low rolling resistance, must run quieter, and are probably more expensive. Will they require more frequent replacement too?
What else should I know about EVs? I have not yet driven any EV, so my opinion about them is not yet formed.
I'm in the same boat. My wife's aging Honda Minivan is due for replacement. I tried to like Tesla but can't stand the large computer screen attached to a kitchen countertop. The floorboards sound hollow (Model Y) and the build quality is subpar for the asking price.

The new Fisker Ocean looks promising but it's vaporware ATM.

I think EVs are still too immature to buy today compared to IC counterparts. Solid-state batteries will change that but still at least a good 3-5 years away from being productized.

I've been cross shopping:
  • BMW X3 (time tested and refined)
  • Genesis GV70 (too new, scary)
  • Lexus IS350 (boring driving dynamics, but reliable and more spacious)
  • Acura RDX (Acura quality has declined over the last decade)
  • Mazda CX-9 (kinda aging platform soon to be replaced by CX-90)
2021/2022 are NOT good years to buy new cars due to supply chain issue, no discount deals and feature deletes (ie. BMW deleted Harman audio system upgrade). Decisions decisions....
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Man I've been checking out the Rivian pickup truck too the last few days. Really, really nice electric pickup truck. The F-150 Lightning truck is coming soon too.
The electric vehicle revolution is really picking up speed. I bet it's gonna go faster than most of us even realize.

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G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
I'm in the same boat. My wife's aging Honda Minivan is due for replacement. I tried to like Tesla but can't stand the large computer screen attached to a kitchen countertop. The floorboards sound hollow (Model Y) and the build quality is subpar for the asking price.

The new Fisker Ocean looks promising but it's vaporware ATM.

I think EVs are still too immature to buy today compared to IC counterparts. Solid-state batteries will change that but still at least a good 3-5 years away from being productized.

I've been cross shopping:
  • BMW X3 (time tested and refined)
  • Genesis GV70 (too new, scary)
  • Lexus IS350 (boring driving dynamics, but reliable and more spacious)
  • Acura RDX (Acura quality has declined over the last decade)
  • Mazda CX-9 (kinda aging platform soon to be replaced by CX-90)
2021/2022 are NOT good years to buy new cars due to supply chain issue, no discount deals and feature deletes (ie. BMW deleted Harman audio system upgrade). Decisions decisions....

Well said. I too was looking until I read an article about the use of EVs in trying to evacuate from an approaching hurricane. It’s main point is there are not enough supply of rechargers along a main evacuation route. So if you live in a hurricaine zone (I do) you should have a gas car as well.


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D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Toyota should be coming out with an electric version for the Tacoma in a year or 2 I heard I'm waiting until then and then I'll trade my current one in.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
Toyota should be coming out with an electric version for the Tacoma in a year or 2 I heard I'm waiting until then and then I'll trade my current one in.
I'm surprised Ford didn't start with the Ranger for their first Electric pickup. Seems like that would have been a lot easier being smaller.

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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I'm also interested in the Electric Trucks on the horizon.
Canoo looks interesting, too.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
I'm in the same boat. My wife's aging Honda Minivan is due for replacement. I tried to like Tesla but can't stand the large computer screen attached to a kitchen countertop. The floorboards sound hollow (Model Y) and the build quality is subpar for the asking price.

The new Fisker Ocean looks promising but it's vaporware ATM.

I think EVs are still too immature to buy today compared to IC counterparts. Solid-state batteries will change that but still at least a good 3-5 years away from being productized.

I've been cross shopping:
  • BMW X3 (time tested and refined)
  • Genesis GV70 (too new, scary)
  • Lexus IS350 (boring driving dynamics, but reliable and more spacious)
  • Acura RDX (Acura quality has declined over the last decade)
  • Mazda CX-9 (kinda aging platform soon to be replaced by CX-90)
2021/2022 are NOT good years to buy new cars due to supply chain issue, no discount deals and feature deletes (ie. BMW deleted Harman audio system upgrade). Decisions decisions....
Since you live in Tampa, what's the point of buying SUVs at all? None of these are great offroaders.
Back in 2018, I leased Honda Accord EX-L with a 2.0T engine (this config is no longer available unfortunately, you could get Sport 2.0T with cloth interior or top-of-line Touring 2.0T). This year my 3 years lease expired but my car has 8k miles and I love it so much I bought it out. It's time tested, has great driving dynamics 0-60 around 5.5 seconds (especially if you go with summer tires), 10 gears Automatic transmission is great, it's still good value despite lack of dealer discounts at the moment (well Touring is a bit overpriced, but has neat features like magnetic shocks)
And cargo size? It's massive - plenty of room for a weekend Costco haul for a family of 4. It won't match 7 seats in Minivan, but it easily matches space in smaller crossovers like X3/GV70/RDX/CX-5

I know you aren't keen on Accord sound system quality, but I must disagree and EX-L trims (or above) come with an upgraded sound system that easily matches the H&K systems I used to have in my old Outbacks.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm surprised Ford didn't start with the Ranger for their first Electric pickup. Seems like that would have been a lot easier being smaller.

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Smaller battery probably wouldn't help.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
But much lighter truck also. Either way the Ranger will get the electric treatment at some point.

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With a battery with current tech, lighter isn't much of a thing :) Especially for something like a pickup truck. Give it a coupla years, tho.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I've been looking at the Ford Mach-E lately. I'm intrigued and I've had it with gas vehicles and oil in general. Environmental yes but more the oil market and companies.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
What's the current situation (pun not intended) with EV's and the actual source of the electricity to power them? How much of it comes currently from renewables vs fossil fuels?

I pretty much work from home so an ICE or EV doesn't make much of a difference to me.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
What's the current situation (pun not intended) with EV's and the actual source of the electricity to power them? How much of it comes currently from renewables vs fossil fuels?

I pretty much work from home so an ICE or EV doesn't make much of a difference to me.
One step at time, but again it's not all about environmental issues, it's about how awful the oil companies are in general. The less cars that use that garbage from those garbage companies the better. And it's not just the "companies" it's OPEC also.

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flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
I'm in the same boat. My wife's aging Honda Minivan is due for replacement. I tried to like Tesla but can't stand the large computer screen attached to a kitchen countertop. The floorboards sound hollow (Model Y) and the build quality is subpar for the asking price.

The new Fisker Ocean looks promising but it's vaporware ATM.

I think EVs are still too immature to buy today compared to IC counterparts. Solid-state batteries will change that but still at least a good 3-5 years away from being productized.

I've been cross shopping:
  • BMW X3 (time tested and refined)
  • Genesis GV70 (too new, scary)
  • Lexus IS350 (boring driving dynamics, but reliable and more spacious)
  • Acura RDX (Acura quality has declined over the last decade)
  • Mazda CX-9 (kinda aging platform soon to be replaced by CX-90)
2021/2022 are NOT good years to buy new cars due to supply chain issue, no discount deals and feature deletes (ie. BMW deleted Harman audio system upgrade). Decisions decisions....
I’ve had Honda minivans, BMW M3s, 5 series, Audis, Corvettes, ect…. In my 2021 models (Y and 3P), I haven’t had any quality issues. The few issues I’ve had (cameras), where brought up by Tesla to setup an appointment before I had a chance to complain. I have had transmission issues with the Audi (2018 New at the time), and a fuel injector pump with the BMW (2009 New at the time). As far as build quality, the Corvette (2016 C7 Z51 3LT New at the time) had the rear exhaust out of alignment and took an act of God to fix. I wasn’t happy with that on an 80k car. So as to build quality, none of them are perfect. EV wise, you can’t beat how far Tesla is ahead of them. I would buy a Lucid if it wasn’t so $$$$$$.


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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Since you live in Tampa, what's the point of buying SUVs at all? None of these are great offroaders.
Back in 2018, I leased Honda Accord EX-L with a 2.0T engine (this config is no longer available unfortunately, you could get Sport 2.0T with cloth interior or top-of-line Touring 2.0T). This year my 3 years lease expired but my car has 8k miles and I love it so much I bought it out. It's time tested, has great driving dynamics 0-60 around 5.5 seconds (especially if you go with summer tires), 10 gears Automatic transmission is great, it's still good value despite lack of dealer discounts at the moment (well Touring is a bit overpriced, but has neat features like magnetic shocks)
And cargo size? It's massive - plenty of room for a weekend Costco haul for a family of 4. It won't match 7 seats in Minivan, but it easily matches space in smaller crossovers like X3/GV70/RDX/CX-5

I know you aren't keen on Accord sound system quality, but I must disagree and EX-L trims (or above) come with an upgraded sound system that easily matches the H&K systems I used to have in my old Outbacks.
My fun car is my 2018 BMW M240i. It's a sport coupe pretending to be a 4-seater. Not very comfy for my daughter to sit in the back seat.

I need a second car that I can haul the family comfortably and also move boxes regularly. I don't like trucks. I'm tired of driving a Minivan. So a crossover or SUV seems like the best bet.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Indeed - fabulous car, stupid move on VW's part!
Another customer has/had a Porsche SUV- don't remember which, but its transmission has problems- the dealer service department told him that Porsche doesn't sell parts for it, just complete transmissions. Stupidly expensive, too.

My view- EVERYTHING is repairable. If it didn't experience a catastrophic failure, it should be repairable.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
Here’s the thing, most people don’t do cannonball races. Most charging on trips is around 10 minutes, give or take a few. Long distance planning for a road trip doesn’t have you charging to 80%. It gives you enough charge to the next stop to charge. The fastest charging happens when the battery around 20% or so. So the stops are enough that a normal bathroom break and you’re back on the road. 180 miles of range added to the car is about 2:40 minute drive. Most people are ready to get out and stretch by that time anyways, specially with kids.

Even then, most people don’t really do long distance trips all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Understood, regardless infrastructure still has quite a ways to go before I'm convinced.
 

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