StormAudio ISP MK2 24CH AV Processor Review & Support Thread

[PENG]

And the older we get, the more down sampling we do.


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To add to that fact, 48 kHz sampling rate would guarantee 24 kHz bandwidth in theory so even in practice there should be no issue with 99.99999% of human's bandwidth. I guess Yamaha finds it easier to not down convert, if it has more than enough processing power.

 

[Golfx]

Are you sure Yamaha does not downsample when using room correction?


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

And the older we get, the more down sampling we do.


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I think I'm at 16kHz right now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are you sure Yamaha does not downsample when using room correction?


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Why, YES I AM. I have confirmed this with Yamaha. And Gene has said this repeatedly on AH.

Yamaha YPAO is the ONLY Room Correction that does NOT down-sample AT ALL.

 

[Replicant 7]

So Audyssey and Dirac down-sample to 48 kHz, Trinnov down-sample to 96kHz, and YPAO doesn't down-sample at all at 192kHz/24 bit.

Hey @Replicant 7, does that mean Yamaha YPAO is the best?

Oh, wait, I forgot that the HUMAN HEARING down-sample to BELOW 20 kHZ.

1%. Is audible, for Golden Ears.

 

[PENG]

Mind you, only reason they’re making these changes is because the cat’s out of the bag. If I still had my Mac amps, I would’ve sent them to Amir or driven them to Gene to test them. I bet their measurements wouldn’t have been any better than some of the well regarded, less expensive amps we all mention here. Still, it’s great to have these gents keeping these manufacturers honest.


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I would bet the McIntosh amps, even the lower end ones such as the MC312, will measure as good as those in the green or even blue zone of the ASR chart.

MC312:
Power Output: 300 Watts into 2, 4 or 8 Ohm speakers Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.005% maximum from 20Hz to 20kHz Signal to Noise Ratio: 120dB Balanced 118dB Unbalanced

That's 86 dB SINAD, only as good as D+M AVRs but it is for 20 to 20,000 kHz. With 1 kHz test signal it will be much better.

Even at 0.005%, it is still a lot better than ATI's signature series 0.03%, though ATI's damp factor spec is much better.

Just Google and found that for 1 kHz, it was about 103 dB SINAD for the MC462. The only amps measured on ASR by Amir that could beat or equal the Mc would be the Benchmark AHB2, and a couple Purifi and Hypex Class D amps, though that's on THD+N/SINAD only.

@AcuDefTechGuy , the crazy one who wants 3 zeros behind the decimal point please trade your Signature amp for the Mc.

 

[ryanosaur]

@AcuDefTechGuy , the crazy one who wants 3 zeros behind the decimal point please trade your Signature amp for the Mc.

*Drops the Audio Precision Analyzer and walks away.

 

[flyboylr45]

I would bet the McIntosh amps, even the lower end ones such as the MC312, will measure as good as those in the green or even blue zone of the ASR chart.

MC312:
Power Output: 300 Watts into 2, 4 or 8 Ohm speakers Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.005% maximum from 20Hz to 20kHz Signal to Noise Ratio: 120dB Balanced 118dB Unbalanced

That's 86 dB SINAD, only as good as D+M AVRs but it is for 20 to 20,000 kHz. With 1 kHz test signal it will be much better.

Even at 0.005%, it is still a lot better than ATI's signature series 0.03%, though ATI's damp factor spec is much better.

Just Google and found that for 1 kHz, it was about 103 dB SINAD for the MC462. The only amps measured on ASR by Amir that could beat or equal the Mc would be the Benchmark AHB2, and a couple Purifi and Hypex Class D amps, though that's on THD+N/SINAD only.

@AcuDefTechGuy , the crazy one who wants 3 zeros behind the decimal point please trade your Signature amp for the Mc.

View attachment 52130

Agreed. But part of the point is that just like these processors, their price difference should command specs that are “much” better than the rest. The Mac amp may measure “slightly” better, be inaudible, and costs at least twice as much as the ATIs for example.


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[Movie2099]

So Audyssey and Dirac down-sample to 48 kHz, Trinnov down-sample to 96kHz, and YPAO doesn't down-sample at all at 192kHz/24 bit.

Hey @Replicant 7, does that mean Yamaha YPAO is the best?

Oh, wait, I forgot that the HUMAN HEARING down-sample to BELOW 20 kHZ.

So looks like DataSat LS10 and Denon X8500 have the best THD+N/SINAD, while the Denon X3700 has better THD+N/SINAD than Storm, Trinnov, and Emo.

See, I've been telling everyone the DataSat's are legit! Top of the line! Reason why movie studios used them for 15+ years. Now they're getting revamped. Wait for the THD to be .0000000001%. Thing is just going to rock the test benches.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy , the crazy one who wants 3 zeros behind the decimal point please trade your Signature amp for the Mc.

My hearing down-samples everything to 16kHz and 1.000% THD+N.

Signature amp? Getting ahead of ourselves here. I'm not even letting go of my Yamaha CX-A5000 amp!

 

[WookieGR]

What bugs me about products like this is you must go through authorized dealers that are few and far plus the added cost of exclusivity on top of whatever competitive pricing there might have been. I remember a small audio chain of stores around where I lived called Audio Craft that was the only place I could get certain things. Then they went away and now there's no one reputable or reasonably priced within driving distance to even experience gear like this. I can't even see it's MSRP on the StormAudio website.

Not that I am in anyway a part of that world but little shits like me can't even leer into the window to see what I'm missing because I have no connections or inheritance money.

 

[ryanosaur]

What bugs me about products like this is you must go through authorized dealers that are few and far plus the added cost of exclusivity on top of whatever competitive pricing there might have been. I remember a small audio chain of stores around where I lived called Audio Craft that was the only place I could get certain things. Then they went away and now there's no one reputable or reasonably priced within driving distance to even experience gear like this. I can't even see it's MSRP on the StormAudio website.

Not that I am in anyway a part of that world but little shits like me can't even leer into the window to see what I'm missing because I have no connections or inheritance money.

Sort of like fine restaurants with no prices on the menu? If you have to ask, you don't belong.

(Don't worry... I'm not in the Storm Club, either. )

 

[PENG]

So Audyssey and Dirac down-sample to 48 kHz, Trinnov down-sample to 96kHz, and YPAO doesn't down-sample at all at 192kHz/24 bit.

Hey @Replicant 7, does that mean Yamaha YPAO is the best?

Oh, wait, I forgot that the HUMAN HEARING down-sample to BELOW 20 kHZ.

So looks like DataSat LS10 and Denon X8500 have the best THD+N/SINAD, while the Denon X3700 has better THD+N/SINAD than Storm, Trinnov, and Emo.

But both Storm and Trinnov appears to have committed to improving, I quoted Gene on the Storm and now I found, and quoting Amir on the Trinnov:

Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

In contacting me Trinnov expressed that they had made an optimization to the DAC that resulted in better measured performance but not audibly. For this reason, they have not promoted this change. They plan to make a more substantial revision of the DAC to come out later that they will offer as upgrade to current customers. They have asked me if I would participate in testing that and of course I said yes.

And may as well quote Gene again so both can be read in one place:

StormAudio ISP MK2 24CH AV Processor Review | Audioholics

I observed some out of band noise at 30kHz (-70dB) and 50kHz (-55dB) with bass management engaged. Although this is inaudible, it is good housekeeping to clean this up. StormAudio told me this will be addressed with the new DAC design....

I suspect distortion behavior is a function of the DAC chip StormAudio is currently using but they have informed me an upgrade is in the works slated for sometime in the near future. I will be revisiting these measurements once I get the upgrade module installed.

Very nice table by the way for a quick comparison, is it from ASR?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very nice table by the way for a quick comparison, is it from ASR?

Yes it is from ASR.

 

[WookieGR]

Sort of like fine restaurants with no prices on the menu? If you have to ask, you don't belong.

(Don't worry... I'm not in the Storm Club, either. )

 

[gene]

Storm MK-II THD+N is 0.002%?

Denon X3700 is 0.001%, Denon X8500 is 0.0007%.

Again, all are completely inaudible, but for nerds who will be comparing numbers.

Those are completely inaudible #s and the whole SINAD thing puts people out of touch with that fact. Nobody uses SINAD to show performance other than ASR but I included it here so people could make Apples to Apples comparisons.

There is no magic to representing distortion as dB instead of percentage, but i think percentage is easier to visualize.

To convert % to SINAD: SINAD = 20*Log(%THD+N/100)
so for .002% = 94dB
and for .0007% = 103dB

 

[gene]

Do you actually use all 24 channels?? Huge room?

I have 9 bed channels, 4 height channels and 2 sub channels so I'm only using 15 channels total. Eventually IF Storm gets FIR, I will bypass the Marani and do my FIR correction as triamped speakers for the front LRs and center so that will up my channel count to 20. Also, I can repurpose the extra pair of in-ceiling's I'm using as wides now as height IF I add 2 floorstanding heights which would get me up to 22 channels in the future.

 

[gene]

Do not tell Sparechange that you think the StormAudio is better......I'm pretty sure he would risk his life for his Trinnov. He will go to his grave making sure everybody knows he has a Trinnov and it's the greatest AV processer alive and on the market. Nothing will ever touch it. NOTHING!

That Loosechange guy is a bit nutty. He prays to his Audioquest cables every night and rumor has it he takes some of them to bed with him too

 

[gene]

I scanned the review only for now so please someone tell me what was wrong with the SNR for ch 4? I don't that can't be a defect or anything bad otherwise Gene would have said something.

Channel 4 is the subwoofer channel and out of this test since it was done at 1kHz. Just ignore. I added a note in the review for clarity.

 

[gene]

Why, YES I AM. I have confirmed this with Yamaha. And Gene has said this repeatedly on AH.

Yamaha YPAO is the ONLY Room Correction that does NOT down-sample AT ALL.

That's true but it's also the only room correction system that virtually does nothing so there's that