Ascend Sierra Tower + Emotiva XPA-11 = Burnt Voicecoil

[highfigh]

Fwiw...I had a mid range unit go...not totally fried but you could certainly tell it was damaged. For the record I wasn't playing it all that loud but the recording was bad most likely....iirc.... Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" was the recording I noticed it on ...but likely not the culprit.
This is why I recently bought headphones for more actual critical listening.

How loudly do you listen to Leonard Cohen's music? Don't rule out complex waveforms with difficult intermodulation- that can cause all kinds of odd noises. It could cause things in the room to vibrate, too.

 

[Replicant 7]

Uh, it's not four voice coils, the voice coil is wound in four layers. Unless it melts, in which case, it's a hunk of Copper or Aluminum that's stuck to the former.

Another cause of driver failure is HF oscillation, but the tweeter and woofer didn't cack, so I would look elsewhere- I'd like to see a full set of parameters for the mid.

was wondering when you'd catch that.

 

[Billy106]

How loudly do you listen to Leonard Cohen's music? Don't rule out complex waveforms with difficult intermodulation- that can cause all kinds of odd noises. It could cause things in the room to vibrate, too.

In that instance not being in the actual room about 85dbs... normally at LP...but when it happened I noticed it immediately...I just figured it could've happened during another session but yea the particular song is largely his vocals.

Btw it was several yrs ago...no issues since with original on hand speaker or the replacement..

 

[highfigh]

In that instance not being in the actual room about 85dbs... normally at LP...but when it happened I noticed it immediately...I just figured it could've happened during another session but yea the particular song is largely his vocals.

Btw it was several yrs ago...no issues since with original or the replacement..

I know the song- that's why I asked. Have you listened to that one through different speakers or with headphones? Could be a recording defect.

 

[highfigh]

was wondering when you'd catch that.

Immediately- I would have caught it sooner if I had seen it earlier.

 

[Pogre]

I wasn't aware that the speaker was using a ribbon tweeter. I agree with the fact that such driver as well as some air motion transformer tweeters can handle more power than another type.

Oh, yeah that's right. When you go to their site it's advertised with the NrT dome tweeter. You have to scroll and click for the specs on the upgraded RAAL version.

How loudly do you listen to Leonard Cohen's music? Don't rule out complex waveforms with difficult intermodulation- that can cause all kinds of odd noises. It could cause things in the room to vibrate, too.

Now this I didn't know about. Am I understanding correctly that signals causing bad behavior and speaker damage can be baked right into the recording?

 

[Billy106]

I know the song- that's why I asked. Have you listened to that one through different speakers or with headphones? Could be a recording defect.

I've replayed since and no issues but there is a level of fluctuations in his voice almost like it's crackling...I suppose...like most of us, we never think we were playing it too loud..lol...but I suppose upon reflection...it might have been the cause. Haven't listed to it in awhile but I'm going to give it a whirl with my headphones...

 

[slipperybidness]

Oh, yeah that's right. When you go to their site it's advertised with the NrT dome tweeter. You have to scroll and click for the specs on the upgraded RAAL version.

Now this I didn't know about. Am I understanding correctly that signals causing bad behavior and speaker damage can be baked right into the recording?

Absolutely!

Clipping and other distortion can happen at any point in the signal chain. Even during recording and mastering.

You have to be really careful with Youtube too.

There is a particular pop song that the wife was listening to, and it had way too much distortion in the recording itself. It sounded like crap to me, I immediately turned it down and asked the wife to be very careful with ever playing that particular track again.

 

[highfigh]

I've replayed since and no issues but there is a level of fluctuations in his voice almost like it's crackling...I suppose...like most of us, we never think we were playing it too loud..lol...but I suppose upon reflection...it might have been the cause. Haven't listed to it in awhile but I'm going to give it a whirl with my headphones...

On vinyl? Could be a cutting lathe error or from the TT/cartridge being used. If it was a digital source, it's probably in the recording. Court of The Crimson King has a drum part and it distorts- that was caused by the recording engineers not having a clue about what they needed to do when they were recording that music.

The crackle in 'Suzanne' could easily be from the mic, too- some mics don't handle overload well and it may not sound much louder than other notes on the recording, but few final mixes haven't been processed by using compressors, limiters, equalization, de-essing, etc. Also, don't discount the possibility that something in the room made a sound and they left it because the performance was more important than removing one little sound.

 

[Pogre]

Absolutely!

Clipping and other distortion can happen at any point in the signal chain. Even during recording and mastering.

You have to be really careful with Youtube too.

There is a particular pop song that the wife was listening to, and it had way too much distortion in the recording itself. It sounded like crap to me, I immediately turned it down and asked the wife to be very careful with ever playing that particular track again.

It makes perfect sense but never occurred to me. I know different sources can run really hot and make your speakers play louder and risk damage. I just never thought about distortion or clipping could be baked right into the recording and cause damage.

 

[Billy106]

On vinyl? Could be a cutting lathe error or from the TT/cartridge being used. If it was a digital source, it's probably in the recording. Court of The Crimson King has a drum part and it distorts- that was caused by the recording engineers not having a clue about what they needed to do when they were recording that music.

Digital..."wow"...good info received I have some King Crimson... download too....is their any correlation to older recording in general or bad recordings have no boundaries.

 

[Billy106]

It makes perfect sense but never occurred to me. I know different sources can run really hot and make your speakers play louder and risk damage. I just never thought about distortion or clipping could be baked right into the recording and cause damage.

Like you I like more heavy based music like Tool, Metallica...etc. listen to that Cohen track but not to loud and see if you hear what is being discussed here...he's our Bob Dylan...and I love that song....

 

[highfigh]

Oh, yeah that's right. When you go to their site it's advertised with the NrT dome tweeter. You have to scroll and click for the specs on the upgraded RAAL version.

Now this I didn't know about. Am I understanding correctly that signals causing bad behavior and speaker damage can be baked right into the recording?

IM results in not only the original sound, but also the sum & difference, so two notes at 400Hz and 2KHz will result in 1600Hz & 2400Hz, both of which fall in the range fed to the mid in this speaker because there's no electrical HP component in the crossover- if it was a bandpass crossover, the source of the IM would have to be the amplifier, depending on the slope of the crossover. Foreign police or plastic toy whistles can sound like they're producing more than the two notes that are being created.

Beat Frequencies

It's not the recording as much as it is the music, itself- even acoustically, other tones can be heard when some instruments play two or more notes. If the difference in the frequencies of the notes is small, the difference may be only a few HZ and this is the reason multiple voices in a chorus seem to shimmer. They're not necessarily using vibrato, but it can sound like they are. The difference frequency is sometimes called 'beat frequency'.

Intermodulation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pogre]

Like you I like more heavy based music like Tool, Metallica...etc. listen to that Cohen track but not to loud and see if you hear what is being discussed here...he's our Bob Dylan...and I love that song....

Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne", right? I'll look it up and check it out later today.

 

[highfigh]

Digital..."wow"...good info received I have some King Crimson... download too....is their any correlation to older recording in general or bad recordings have no boundaries.

The remaster has the distortion, too- it's on the basic tracking and master tapes. The remaster sounds good, though- a lot of old recordings suffer more from bad mixing and mastering as long as the tapes have been protected from degradation. I always thought old Genesis sounded like crap, but the Steven Wilson remasters sound very good.

 

[highfigh]

Like you I like more heavy based music like Tool, Metallica...etc. listen to that Cohen track but not to loud and see if you hear what is being discussed here...he's our Bob Dylan...and I love that song....

If you haven't, check out the Leonard Cohen- Live in London concert that was released in 2009.



Heavy music, like this?

Listen for the distortion at about 7:56-

 

[Pogre]

Listen for the distortion at about 7:56-

The Court of the Crimson King video?

 

[highfigh]

The Court of the Crimson King video?

Yes- my brother got a copy when it first came out (I still have it) but there would have been no chance of hearing it with his stereo because of the dinky speakers. I don't remember hearing it with my first speakers, either- my listening skills weren't what they are now and they may not have been able to reveal it, anyway.

 

[lovinthehd]

Didn't @shadyJ clarify about playback of recorded distortion vs amplifier created distortion/clipping?

 

[Pogre]

Yes- my brother got a copy when it first came out (I still have it) but there would have been no chance of hearing it with his stereo because of the dinky speakers. I don't remember hearing it with my first speakers, either- my listening skills weren't what they are now and they may not have been able to reveal it, anyway.

I listened and what jumped out at me first was the snare drum.