Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[Am_P]

The truth of usefulness of 8K in one sentence - practically non-existent, not affordable and useless

- content: a few trivial trial videos to watch and say: "I saw palms on a beach in 8K"
- content: experimental broadcasts of Olympic Games in Tokyo (over Intel Xeon platform) - once in a blue moon
- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily
- 8K TVs: hoping to sell up to 10 million units in total worldwide by 2025-2026 (hardly a mainstream...)
- 8K games: impossible on consoles; need new gen of GPUs to bring it to 8K/30 and another gen ot two for 8K/60
- 8K AVRs: those have arrived and are waiting... and waiting... patiently to be used one day with content
- 8K HDMI dongles: non-existent, no content
- 8K Blu Ray: non-existent and not planned

Any company marketing anything "8K" - complete waste of time; a pie in the sly.

I currently have AMD's flagship GPU (RX 6900 xt) and it is guaranteed to do diddly squat at 8k if I ever get my hands on a 8k monitor. We are probably looking at 2 generations (RX 8xxx and above, 2025 or later) to get to a bare minimum with 8k for PC gaming.

 

[squeedle]

I like oranges.

 

[Falstaff]

Okay, so I was watching episode 4 of Foundation on Apple TV+ and found myself engrossed by the ambience of it with Surround AI engaged. Several times, the chirping of birds made me crane my neck and look up in the direction of ceiling speakers I don’t have. I’m running 7.1 and am certain I was being fooled into hearing things I shouldn’t. Surround AI? YPAO worked for my set-up? Going mad?

 

[Replicant 7]

Okay, so I was watching episode 4 of Foundation on Apple TV+ and found myself engrossed by the ambience of it with Surround AI engaged. Several times, the chirping of birds made me crane my neck and look up in the direction of ceiling speakers I don’t have. I’m running 7.1 and am certain I was being fooled into hearing things I shouldn’t. Surround AI? YPAO worked for my set-up? Going mad?

I use AI on all of my streaming and 4K disc. This isn't my first experience using AI, used it on my A1080. I'm a big fan of DTS-X, but now AI, I've researched as much as I could on the technology. There isn't a whole lot out about AI that I know of other than what Yamaha has put out and a few articles by a couple of dudes I ran across just the other day. Here's the thing of AI from my understanding, it analyzes five times before it does it's thing. On the OSD at the bottom when you pull up, on-screen info, it will show Atmos mode, and AI. So my understanding is that AI doesn't change what ever Dolby format your using. But take what I just posted up on AI with a grain of salt, I'm still in learning mode with AI also, but yeah I like what it brings to the HT experience very much.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Okay, so I was watching episode 4 of Foundation on Apple TV+ and found myself engrossed by the ambience of it with Surround AI engaged. Several times, the chirping of birds made me crane my neck and look up in the direction of ceiling speakers I don’t have. I’m running 7.1 and am certain I was being fooled into hearing things I shouldn’t. Surround AI? YPAO worked for my set-up? Going mad?

Pretty sure it’s just HRTF baked into the soundtrack.

 

[Replicant 7]

Pretty sure it’s just HRTF baked into the soundtrack.

Kinda like Atmos is HRTF baked into TrueHD?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Kinda like Atmos is HRTF baked into TrueHD?

Not exactly, but not entirely different either.

 

[AVR Enthu]

I currently have AMD's flagship GPU (RX 6900 xt) and it is guaranteed to do diddly squat at 8k if I ever get my hands on a 8k monitor. We are probably looking at 2 generations (RX 8xxx and above, 2025 or later) to get to a bare minimum with 8k for PC gaming.

Some lighter games perhaps. Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of ultimate stress-tests for GPU capability, as it is very demanding on rendering side. With best cards nowadays, it can barely achieve 4K/60 with high settings.

So yes, another two generations of GPUs, until RDNA4 and 6K/8K 120 Hz monitors and 8K/120 TVs. The good thing about new Yamaha AVRs is that these machines would be able to support such insane resolutions with DSC used, if anyone connects their PC through AVR. This is ~4-5 years away.

 

[VASKION]

I'm not even convinced I can tell between 1080p and 4k unless I'm right on top of it, with my nose touching the screen.

In my country we have several 4K TV channels. The difference is night and day compared to the full HD ones. But, this is only if the content is actually 4K and not upscaled 1080p. Even though I also doubt I will be able to tell the difference between the 4K and 8K.

The bit rate is another thing that is very important and makes a lot of difference in the quality. Unfortunately all TV channels broadcast with far lower bit rate than the actual content requires to be considered full HD, 4K and so on...

 

[Replicant 7]

Not exactly, but not entirely different either.

Thanks! Broski cheese slice! was just trying to pick ya brain a lil, I myself over think all these DSP thingy's.

 

[Replicant 7]

Some lighter games perhaps. Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of ultimate stress-tests for GPU capability, as it is very demanding on rendering side. With best cards nowadays, it can barely achieve 4K/60 with high settings.

So yes, another two generations of GPUs, until RDNA4 and 6K/8K 120 Hz monitors and 8K/120 TVs. The good thing about new Yamaha AVRs is that these machines would be able to support such insane resolutions with DSC used, if anyone connects their PC through AVR. This is ~4-5 years away.

Thanks for the info, MCode use to pop in with great info but seems he's been MIA for some time.

 

[3db]

I recall someone having a complaint about the YPAO not correcting Atmos Enabled speakers in these models (they never have in previous models either).

Just noticed a recent post by Dante01 on AVForums -

"Most AV receiver's omit EQing Atmos enabled speakers because of the stupid HRTF crossovers Dolby insist upon them having in order to be classed as being Dolby endorsed.

Are HRTF’s Necessary in Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers?
Dolby Atmos Elevation speakers employ a HRTF in their analog crossovers in attempt to trick the brain into perceiving height. But is this really necessary, or can it degrade their sound quality?

Not sure if it is still the case, but even DIRAC used to ignore them? The same is also true of Audyssey "

I was in the dark about which Dolby Enabled speakers had crossovers designed with 'head related transfer functions' when I bought some three years ago.

The first ones I got, PSB Imagine XA speakers were 'designed in conjunction with Dolby Labs' and the first ones to be approved - if my memory serves me well.

However, when I measured them they were almost ruler-flat in response. So much so that I'm using four of them as the 30 degree heights for Auro 3D.

I then got some KEF Q50As for the lounge. Supposed to be 105Hz-18.5kHz (+/- 3dB) yet when measured I saw a huge rise at 7kHz - a HRTF frequency. (plus big dip at 1kHz which was odd, though probably not planned).

So maybe Yamaha, and others, seem as confused as the speaker manufacturers.

Im not sure what you mean by YPAO correcting Dolby Atmos. It definately corrected mine on a RX-A3060

 

[Pogre]

In my country we have several 4K TV channels. The difference is night and day compared to the full HD ones. But, this is only if the content is actually 4K and not upscaled 1080p. Even though I also doubt I will be able to tell the difference between the 4K and 8K.

The bit rate is another thing that is very important and makes a lot of difference in the quality. Unfortunately all TV channels broadcast with far lower bit rate than the actual content requires to be considered full HD, 4K and so on...

I've noticed some differences in some formats. I'm thinking more along the lines of an ideal situation, with Blu Ray content it can be very difficult to tell the difference. Especially at my viewing distance of 14 feet (~4.25 m) I think the jump to HDR is a lot more noticeable than going from 1080 to 4k.

I'm definitely more an audio guy come to this stuff tho, and haven't done much research on nits and nots n stuff. I have a big tv, but it's not anything very fancy. A lower tier TCL. My monitor is one of the places I pinched the budget to have nicer audio gear.

 

[Replicant 7]

Im not sure what you mean by YPAO correcting Dolby Atmos. It definately corrected mine on a RX-A3060

Yes! Yamaha deliciousness, yummy AI

 

[BMXTRIX]

...I tried to get a clean install with pc -> hdmi cable -> wall outlet -> extender -> wall outlet -> hdmi cable -> TV but I never managed to get 4k hdr 120Hz with VRR working. I had to remove the hdmi cable and wall outlet between the pc and the extender to get something that works (I mean the extender is plugged into the PC graphic card).

I will add that in testing I have performed and asked other pros about, getting HDMI 2.0 to pass through a wall plate properly is nearly impossible and the industry has been mostly deaf about creating a good solution. That's for HDMI 2.0, not even HDMI 2.1. So, at this point you MUST wire point to point any HDMI 2.0 or better connections if you want reliable AV to pass through the system. Even something as simple as going from a wall plate right below a TV to the TV five feet of cabling away, you can't pass 18GB/s HDMI through it reliably.

So, a good rule is that to get reliability, you will need to go point to point with any and all cabling which is being used.

Also be aware that a LOT of cabling is not up to actually delivering their own claimed data rates.

 

[jakkedtide]

I use AI on all of my streaming and 4K disc. This isn't my first experience using AI, used it on my A1080. I'm a big fan of DTS-X, but now AI, I've researched as much as I could on the technology. There isn't a whole lot out about AI that I know of other than what Yamaha has put out and a few articles by a couple of dudes I ran across just the other day. Here's the thing of AI from my understanding, it analyzes five times before it does it's thing. On the OSD at the bottom when you pull up, on-screen info, it will show Atmos mode, and AI. So my understanding is that AI doesn't change what ever Dolby format your using. But take what I just posted up on AI with a grain of salt, I'm still in learning mode with AI also, but yeah I like what it brings to the HT experience very much.

Maybe @gene should put a video about the surround AI. Almost no literature out there on it. If anyone else has played around with it, what are your thoughts?!?!

 

[clone1008]

Maybe @gene should put a video about the surround AI. Almost no literature out there on it. If anyone else has played around with it, what are your thoughts?!?!

Have you googled "Yamaha Surround AI"? Seems there are several articles about it.

 

[jakkedtide]

Have you googled "Yamaha Surround AI"? Seems there are several articles about it.

Yes but from a trusted source is what we all want

 

[snakeeyes]

I believe the AI is some kind of DSP mode that adjusts automatically. I don’t really use DSP modes on my older Yamahas from 2017. I have the RXA2060 in 5.1.4 and also own RXA770 and RXV681 in other rooms. I also use the through mode to bypass the YPAO and the various other sound colorations such as “Natural”.

Many years ago the Yamahas came with a sound signature I will say is closer to using the “Natural” setting in the current AVRs. The DSP modes such as SciFi or Adventure helped the sound when using the first generation of Dolby ProLogic when up mixing 2.0 to 5.1. If you had a model with front heights (I had a RXV3300) it also sent sound to those front height speakers only if you used a DSP mode. I found the DSP modes were not useful anymore when Neo6 and Dolby ProLogic 2 came out unless you were trying to engage the front height speakers. (On my RXV3300 I removed the front heights and left it in Neo6 Cinema 6.1 and didn’t use DSP like in my late 1990s Yamahas with Dolby ProLogic ver1).

And now that we have Dolby DSU and DTS NeuralX which will upmix to all speakers and sound very close to an original multichannel mix, I’m not sure that DSP is that helpful. I did notice on my RXA2060 if you want to use a “virtual surround back” in a 5.1.4 arrangement, a DSP has to be selected. I don’t use that setting though.

That said, possibly the AI is some next level type of DSP. I know the 1080/2080/3080 were the first ones to have AI.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I will add that in testing I have performed and asked other pros about, getting HDMI 2.0 to pass through a wall plate properly is nearly impossible and the industry has been mostly deaf about creating a good solution. That's for HDMI 2.0, not even HDMI 2.1. So, at this point you MUST wire point to point any HDMI 2.0 or better connections if you want reliable AV to pass through the system. Even something as simple as going from a wall plate right below a TV to the TV five feet of cabling away, you can't pass 18GB/s HDMI through it reliably.

So, a good rule is that to get reliability, you will need to go point to point with any and all cabling which is being used.

Also be aware that a LOT of cabling is not up to actually delivering their own claimed data rates.

Having ONE wall plate is working in my case. But not two.