Parasound A51 owners chime in..

[Pogre]

Would you do a double blinded test between working and defective devices? Most likely Emotiva has poor quality control which results in this variation in quality. I think OP experienced the same thing. Sorry, we cant give you any evidence. You will have to believe. I agree on double blind tests between working similar devices. Like my Monolith vs Anthem. Would not be able to tell the difference. I think good copies of Emotiva might sound just as good. Probably

So poorly performing amps are poorly perfoming amps? That's a great tautology. I would have to agree. Poor qc is a possibility, sure, AND it could also easily be demonstrated. There's no disagreement there. Unfortunately we don't have any way of determining that anymore... regardless, the emo isn't the only one we've been talking about here, and I doubt every unit tested had qc issues...

You know, I also owned SVS Ultra towers for a few years. I started out with an old Denon receiver, tried out 2 newer models then learned a little more about receivers and eventually ended up with my Marantz SR6011. Then I got a Monolith 7 amplifier. Out of 4 receivers and adding a big beefy amp, I couldn't tell a difference between any of them, nor did I measure any, and I've done a crap ton of measuring in this room.

 

[PENG]

Would you do a double blinded test between working and defective devices? Most likely Emotiva has poor quality control which results in this variation in quality. I think OP experienced the same thing. Sorry, we cant give you any evidence. You will have to believe. I agree on double blind tests between working similar devices. Like my Monolith vs Anthem. Would not be able to tell the difference. I think good copies of Emotiva might sound just as good. Probably

In your case it would make a lot of sense but in this case I wonder if you missed OP's post#48, after someone suggested may be there was something wrong with the other system.
(1) Parasound A51 owners chime in.. | Page 3 | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

 

[Andrein]

Yes, I saw it. But given no measurments have been done on the system with or without Emo and Parasound this suggestion potentially is not closer to the "truth" than what OP is saying about the difference in sound he observed between Parasound and Emo. And because this difference was like "night and day" if everything was properly calibrated in both cases I still suspect some defect with Emo. Otherwise this difference would not be such huge. It should not be. I personally cannot tell the difference between Anthem and other 3 amps I have.

You should not just focus on some less scientific words by OP. Those words change nothing

In your case it would make a lot of sense but in this case I wonder if you missed OP's post#48, after someone suggested may be there was something wrong with the other system.
(1) Parasound A51 owners chime in.. | Page 3 | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

 

[Pogre]

Yes, I saw it. But given no measurments have been done on the system with or without Emo and Parasound this suggestion potentially is not closer to the "truth" than what OP is saying about the difference in sound he observed between Parasound and Emo. And because this difference was like "night and day" if everything was properly calibrated in both cases I still suspect some defect with Emo. Otherwise this difference would not be such huge. It should not be. I personally cannot tell the difference between Anthem and other 3 amps I have.

He mentioned something about a Marantz receiver in post #13 too, right..?

Parasound A51 owners chime in..

Picked up latest version due here this Thursday, adding to my system would love to hear some feedback on your thoughts/personal experience what you liked? Disliked etc thnx

forums.audioholics.com

I'm open to the possibility of something defective, but I'm not getting that vibe from the posts I've read.

 

[Atlas-Athena]

And btw, you can read part of my "propaganda" in the header for the Audioholics site at the top of forum page. "Pursuing the truth in audio and video". Hence "debunking audio myths", and the scientific method is a big part of that pursuit. Gene (an engineer and the site owner) has incredibly sensitive equipment for measuring and an entire staff devoted to testing these claims. “Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans”. Again, you might wanna read up on some of the work they do here...

Good for you!

You have no point. There are no contradictions and I've been entirely consistent. For some reason you've got a bee in your bonnet now and are just making unfounded accusations instead of addressing what's actually been said. I've offered evidence and reasoned argument, and you haven't even considered any of it. I'm pretty sure that's going to be transparent to anyone reading this thread tho, so I'm satisfied. If you don't want to be an honest interlocutor or have the actual debate that's fine, but I think we're done now. I enjoy honest debate. Cheers.

Guy you have noted your opinions shall we say in the 1st 2 pages of my thread, I took them & played nice.. Now after 5 + total pages you wish to label your Ad nauseam as honest debate?

All you’ve done here is non stop transmit & grandstand, telling me & others we “Can’t hear it” “Don’t know this/that etc” over & over???

How are you helping anyone here? You’re comments are mostly negative/berating in nature.. Then you try & flip it with.. Why? Are you angry Why are you upset?

Did I stumble upon your precious pissing ground territory lol

 

[Pogre]

Good for you!

Guy you have noted your opinions shall we say in the 1st 2 pages of my thread, I took them & played nice.. Now after 5 + total pages you wish to label your Ad nauseam as honest debate?

All you’ve done here is non stop transmit & grandstand, telling me & others we “Can’t hear it” “Don’t know this/that etc” over & over???

How are you helping anyone here? You’re comments are mostly negative/berating in nature.. Then you try & flip it with.. Why? Are you angry Why are you upset?

Did I stumble upon your precious pissing ground territory lol

I'd say I'm helping by correcting misinformation and exposing the flaws in your logic for other people. Trust me, it's not all about you... I think it's helpful also by exposing your dishonesty. I'm a big advocate for proper skeptical and critical thinking. That's why I love these forums. Debunking these myths are the reason this site exists!

All I've done was refute your claim and provided evidence and reasoned argument for why I think that way. You know, "truth in audio" and all that. I didn't say half of what you claim in this post, and you've been replying with personal insults and name calling. You also keep either dishonestly misrepresenting what I've been saying or you're simply not comprehending, and that's fine. Unfortunate, but fine. Like I said, I'm pretty sure that much is transparent to anyone reading this thread, so I'm not gonna get my panties twisted over it. It's your prerogative. If you can't deal with differing opinions in a mature fashion tho, particularly ones backed by actual evidence, then you might not should be posting on forums... Enjoy your new amp. It's a good one. Cheers.

 

[Cos]

For what it’s worth I stumbled upon this in my parasound manual (possibly help you remove hum/buzz?)


AC Power Connections
We recommend that you plug your A 51 into the same AC wall outlet or power strip that pow- ers your other audio components, especially the preamplifier or system controller. Having all
the audio components on the same power circuit helps prevent hum caused by possible ground loops. The A 51 requires AC power that is continuous rather than switched on and off.
110 V - 120 V or 220 V - 240 V O

Cheers..

All those trouble shooting steps were tried, including my power conditioner, XLR vs Unbalanced, etc, did not resolve the issue.

 

[PENG]

All those trouble shooting steps were tried, including my power conditioner, XLR vs Unbalanced, etc, did not resolve the issue.

Same with my A21, it's very sensitive to other plugged in device such as one of my humidifier and when plugged in to a dedicated line it would be quieter but still audible within 1-2 ft. Its not a dc offset issue, I measured it. My other devices such as AVRs, AVPs and several other amps are only audible with ears touching the chassis. Overall, for the size of the transformer I think it is quite normal but lean on the noisy side, relative to my other amps. Some transformers are just louder than others, even when the power line is super clean with no dc offset. At least my A21 did not cause my speakers to hiss audibly unless the volume is turned way up.

 

[Andrein]

I understand your frustration. The guys could have handled this thread much better. Common sense should not be forgotten in these discussions. Not everyone can do the measurements or double blinded tests to provide evidence. In many cases it is not possible or not practical. So, whoever gives his suggestions here should understand that and not trying interrogate OP for the sake of science making his own assumptions along the way claiming they are closer to the truth... Just because they are)))

Also, OP should be trusted more. Look from above down is not great to help out. Do not put yourself above others. What do you really know about OP? He might be 100 times smarter and more flexible than you, have better education, etc. No need for patronising. If OP says he hears something or does not like something, you do not need to doubt that all the time. The fact is nobody knows fore sure what is going on in particular situation as there is no evidence on either side. Might be one way or another. But if OP says something like 'day and night difference' you need to think what it might actually mean by trying to translate this to more scientific language rather than producing even more doubt.

Nobody even thought that what OP experienced might be an amp issue. Surely, might be some other reasons. So just explore them, dont just fixate on subjectiveness of the OP's opinion.

It is not the first thread like this. I think some homework needs to be done by whoever tries to help others to improve things in future.

Good for you!

Guy you have noted your opinions shall we say in the 1st 2 pages of my thread, I took them & played nice.. Now after 5 + total pages you wish to label your Ad nauseam as honest debate?

All you’ve done here is non stop transmit & grandstand, telling me & others we “Can’t hear it” “Don’t know this/that etc” over & over???

How are you helping anyone here? You’re comments are mostly negative/berating in nature.. Then you try & flip it with.. Why? Are you angry Why are you upset?

Did I stumble upon your precious pissing ground territory lol

 

[Pogre]

Also, OP should be trusted more. Look from above down is not great to help out. Do not put yourself above others. What do you really know about OP? He might be 100 times smarter and more flexible than you, have better education, etc.

Your whole post is kinda whiny... I call it like I see it, and when someone is making claims that run counter to common wisdom I will always call it out.

Plus he called me names, personally insulted me and accused me of saying things I never said, and I'm the one putting myself above others? C'mon man. You're just butt hurt because you got called out too Andrein... this whole post is nothing but sophistry.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After starting this thread & digesting all the feedback, I did not expect much more than a lateral move.. I couldn’t of been more wrong..

To sum it up the difference isn’t slight, or hard to hear it’s literally night & day, semantics aside I’ll leave it with an analogy latest Emotiva Gen 3 is like a Base model Corvette vs Parasound A51 = McLaren 720S

If we haven't already said so, CONGRATS on your new Parasound Amp!

I think you won't hear many people on AH recommend Emotiva, especially after how they treated Gene with his Emotiva amp.

But even before that, many people would never want Emotiva over big famous brands like Parasound, ATI, Anthem, Rotel, etc.

Some of us are willing to be more "open" about our feelings of Emotiva, some of us are not.

The salient thing here is for us to share our opinions. We may disagree on some things.

But bottom line is, congrats on your new Parasound amps. They look great. Enjoy!

 

[Atlas-Athena]

If we haven't already said so, CONGRATS on your new Parasound Amp!

I think you won't hear many people on AH recommend Emotiva, especially after how they treated Gene with his Emotiva amp.

But even before that, many people would never want Emotiva over big famous brands like Parasound, ATI, Anthem, Rotel, etc.

Some of us are willing to be more "open" about our feelings of Emotiva, some of us are not.

The salient thing here is for us to share our opinions. We may disagree on some things.

But bottom line is, congrats on your new Parasound amps. They look great. Enjoy!

Thanks… Agreed… & perhaps my enthusiastic lingo ruffled the nerd continuum to hysterical levels (proclaiming I no long post here )

Somebody hint.. hint.. Pogre should get some fresh air & sunshine… You’d think I was talking about sensitive Politics/Religion etc

Again these were/are MY OPINIONS on my setup etc etc Not telling ANYONE what to think HEAR or do ahem…

 

[Pogre]

Thanks… Agreed… & perhaps my enthusiastic lingo ruffled the nerd continuum to hysterical levels (proclaiming I no long post here )

Somebody hint.. hint.. Pogre should get some fresh air & sunshine… You’d think I was talking about sensitive Politics/Religion etc

Again these were/are MY OPINIONS on my setup etc etc Not telling ANYONE what to think HEAR or do ahem…

Me either. Just offering possible reasons for why you may have heard what you did. You're the one who got upset and and resorted to name calling, ad hominem attacks and false accusations...

Picked up latest version due here this Thursday, adding to my system would love to hear some feedback on your thoughts/personal experience what you liked? Disliked etc thnx

I gave you my feedback, thoughts/personal experience what I like/dislike (since you asked and all...) and you went off on me... I'd have prolly dropped it by now had you not started lying, contradicting yourself and acting like I personally attacked you when I didnt.

 

[Atlas-Athena]

Pogre… Do you actually own a Parasound A51? You never mentioned any personal experience? Hence the title of my Thread..

Parasound A51 is inherently different vs Emotiva..

Again with your lies, I didn’t call you any names? Or attack you in ANY fashion.. I slightly defended myself after many pages of your lecturing tirades..

You are acting like this was/is a full on holy war of scientific fact here? When we ALL… well most all of us agree this lol Hobby is very subjective in nature…

I have a myriad of interests cars, women, art, etc etc This is a great fun “HOBBY” ease the F’ up… You’ve turned this into an arduous task vs some general fellowship among like minded hobbyists..

Again look at yourself in the mirror guy…

Pogre— Your whole post is kinda whiny... I call it like I see it, and when someone is making claims that run counter to common wisdom I will always call it out.—-Pogre

I made my OWN OPINIONS ON MY SETUP..
WTF are you on about? Where did I say if YOU guys can’t hear what I hear you are wrong?

Again stop beating the proverbial dead horse here..

 

[Pogre]

You guys are a bunch of old hens… Barring few normal 1’s here sheesh you’re worse than my X wife..

try reading this maybe it will help ease your mental constipation

You contradict yourself & come off as a self indoctrinated know it all period.. Classic Inmate running the asylum.

you sir are indeed toxic.. Not helpful but that annoying amplifier /buz/hum or squeak in an old chair

Funny… You try adding your propaganda style of misleading masses by adding untruths as legitimate statements..

Did I stumble upon your precious pissing ground territory lol

Pogre should get some fresh air & sunshine…

None of those comments are helpful to anyone (tho they do tell me something about you...) nor do they further discussion. They're just childish deflections to avoid addressing the actual discussion and quite frankly, toxic and rude. Clearly you're not hear to learn anything, nor do you really want anyone's opinion unless it lines up with yours.

You're just here looking for a pat on the back and can't handle someone who has a different opinion. Well I'll tell ya what, if you got to pretty much any forum and ask for opinions you should expect some differing ones. You buddy up with those who agree with you and insult and deride those who don't. That's not how debate or reasoned argument works. It's not how civil, honest discussions work. You can disagree with someone without hurling a bunch of insults and false accusations. If you don't like it, that's too bad.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre… Do you actually own a Parasound A51?

Yup.

 

[Atlas-Athena]

Name calling?? Referred to whole group ONCE in a funny euphemistic term “You GUYS are a bunch of old hens” That’s name calling lol..

Pogre.. rest is just the tip of the iceberg in labeling what you do here.. You act like your the “Joan of Arc” defender of the Scientific Universe

In reality… You wear it like a badge touting You’ll always call out anyone counter to your beliefs?

For the final time… we are talking about ONLY my opinions on my personal setup, what I like/disliked & what I hear out of my 2 ears?

wtf gives you any right to tell anyone what they hear/see etc etc is wrong? They’re PERSONAL subjective OPINIONS on equipment I purchased NOTHING else..

I never said anything like “you can’t hear this your wrong?”what is your exact malfunction?
Besides acting like a petulant 2 year old?

 

[Atlas-Athena]

If you owned/own the new or old version A51 why would you not note this back on page 2?
When you said this regarding my purchase?
Obvious dig at the $5k pricing

. Me personally I'd be putting that amp money into something more substantial to improve my audio.

(Pogre… Do you actually own a Parasound A51? You never mentioned any personal experience? Hence the title of my Thread..)

Yup.

 

[Pogre]

Hmm if you owned the new or old version A51 why would you not note this back on page 2?
When you said this regarding my purchase?

Old version. It's collecting dust right now. I think it's too bright compared to my Monolith and haven't used it in a while...

Plus... I really would put my money into different speakers, eq or room treatments before upgrading amplification. If I'm not satisfied with what I'm hearing then I look to either the room or the speakers first. Once you get your speakers and room dialed in, a nice amp is just frosting on the cake. Trying to eq your system by swapping amps is a fool's errand and kind of a waste. I think folks should know that. As long as it's competently made, has sufficient power and functions properly you're good to go.

 

[Pogre]

wtf gives you any right to tell anyone what they hear/see etc etc is wrong? They’re PERSONAL subjective OPINIONS on equipment I purchased NOTHING else..

You keep saying that, but it's not true. I've offered possible explanations for why you might be hearing what you do. There are actual, valid, proven, peer reviewed studies on it, and I along with others have repeatedly linked you to the sources. Which I doubt you even looked at. You're just making crap up, lol.

As to what right I have? It's a public forum and you authored a post asking for opinions, which I gave, and you consequently lost your cookies over it...