Parasound A51 owners chime in..

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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Re-ran Audessy/level matched etc etc 3 x same Audioquest cables etc setup same everything ONLY difference was Marantz internal vs Emotiva
As ADTG and Cos said, those amps are likely so accurate/neutral that you wouldn't have heard the difference if you did not know which one was playing.

That being said, I am open to the potentially plausible reasons for the difference you heard as real so my question is, which model of Marantz you compare the Emotiva to?
 
A

Atlas-Athena

Junior Audioholic
As ADTG and Cos said, those amps are likely so accurate/neutral that you wouldn't have heard the difference if you did not know which one was playing.

That being said, I am open to the potentially plausible reasons for the difference you heard as real so my question is, which model of Marantz you compare the Emotiva to?
SR7012
I agree sound difference should be negligible though I hear it..
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
SR7012
I agree sound difference should be negligible though I hear it..
Thank you, the SR7012's amp section is the same as my AVR-X4400H so now I know it should be quite transparent and neutral. I don't have an Emo amp to compare to, but I have compared the AVR with my A21 and 4B SST, heard no difference but that's just me.

Regardless, if you heard a difference then you heard a difference. My comments on the need of blind listening tests were based on articles such as this one:

Audio Musings by Sean Olive: The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests

But again, I am not suggesting you didn't actually hear a difference, just wonder about the reasons behind it, such as level matching, everything else being equal, and/or, you happen to have excellent hearing as well the ability to pick up any minute differences.

So I guess there is a good chance you would like the A51 better..
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I suspect those differences would disappear if you dbt'd it. Sounds like a classic case of expectation bias/placebo to me.

Most solid state amps are very accurate. So accurate that any minute differences are imperceptible given the limitations of human hearing. If one is "brighter", then it's not an accurate amplifier. I highly doubt Parasound made an inaccurate amplifier. There are a whole bunch of reasons you could have perceived these differences tho. Not level matched, dsp involved (if any), sighted testing, etc. Sighted testing is notoriously inaccurate.

Just go with whatever one you think sounds best. Me personally, I highly doubt I could pick one from another in a proper comparison. I'd prolly go with the most power.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
I had 5.1 with Ultra towers for a few years. I love those speakers.
I'm very intrigued by the Prime pinnacle speakers. I really want to hear today things. I might go in that direction but I really want to try the RSL big brother CG5 series too. I might buy one soon and try as a center with my other RSL CG3 speakers. CG25 for center. I want to see the difference.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
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Atlas-Athena

Junior Audioholic
I heartily agree with all of you thanks.. Thing is I do have really good hearing & vision BUT as you have ALL noted differences should be negligible to nil.. I

Thing is I’m huge anti placebo guy, & literally didn’t expect to hear any difference but extra watts IE Marantz internal 9 channel amp @ best puts out? 70-75 watts IE anything more than 2 channel driven. Emotiva spits out 250 @ 8 ohm all driven etc..

So I did see huge swing in Dynamics & mid bass etc etc but indeed heard a bit of brightness, so I started reversing everything as noted & its there (lol albeit in my head only)

I didn’t read about it prior etc just noticed slight brightness w/Emotiva

We shall see what Parasound does to my perception? No biggie it’s all subjective anyway.. Cheers
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Thing is I’m huge anti placebo guy, & literally didn’t expect to hear any difference...
Then you should be familiar with studies done on it and have a good understanding of how biases can affect your senses. I've done a few deep dives on it and it's really pretty astounding how the smallest things can affect perception. I wouldn't trust my own doing a comparison like this without some controls and careful level matching. This is an interesting experiment that demonstrates what I'm talking about.


Once biases are removed, the differences just... disappear.
We shall see what Parasound does to my perception? No biggie it’s all subjective anyway.. Cheers
Exactly. A properly set up dbt to do these comparisons removes a lot of that subjectivity for a more objective analysis. I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you end up with tho. They're all good amps. Me personally I'd be putting that amp money into something more substantial to improve my audio.
 
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Atlas-Athena

Junior Audioholic
Well next up will be the Receiver I prefer the Marantz Audessy & ease of setup so Marantz AV8805A
I know there are better DAC’s in Emotiva lineup etc etc but I really like Marantz
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you're a huge anti-placebo guy how the heck did you end up with the Fraudioquest cabling?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I'm very intrigued by the Prime pinnacle speakers. I really want to hear today things. I might go in that direction but I really want to try the RSL big brother CG5 series too. I might buy one soon and try as a center with my other RSL CG3 speakers. CG25 for center. I want to see the difference.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
I'll tell ya Het, I really think it's worth saving up for the Ultras. You already have good subwoofage so even the Ultra books would work really well for you. Now, I've never heard your RSLs, but by all accounts they're nice speakers too so I dunno if the Ultras would blow your balls off or if it'd be more of a lateral move.

Then again we are talking about SVS so you'd have plenty of time to check 'em out risk free. You should order both Primes and Ultras! Do a shootout and send the loser home! Somebody here actually did that with a couple of sub models, Prime Pinnacles and Ultra towers. He definitely got his money's worth out of their trial period.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Well next up will be the Receiver I prefer the Marantz Audessy & ease of setup so Marantz AV8805A
I know there are better DAC’s in Emotiva lineup etc etc but I really like Marantz
I prefer Audyssey too. The XT32 version works really well on my subs.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well next up will be the Receiver I prefer the Marantz Audessy & ease of setup so Marantz AV8805A
I know there are better DAC’s in Emotiva lineup etc etc but I really like Marantz
The heart wants what it wants. :D

I am sure the AV8805A will sound great with your Parasound amps.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
If you're a huge anti-placebo guy how the heck did you end up with the Fraudioquest cabling?
Fraudioquest?? I missed that... those guys' bread and butter is placebo. What an evil company.

Atlas, you really should dig in and research the placebo effect and bias. Exotic cables are one of the biggest scams in the industry and run by a bunch of snake oil scammers.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'll tell ya Het, I really think it's worth saving up for the Ultras. You already have good subwoofage so even the Ultra books would work really well for you. Now, I've never heard your RSLs, but by all accounts they're nice speakers to so I dunno if the Ultras would blow your balls off or if it'd be more of a lateral move.

Then again we are talking about SVS so you'd have plenty of time to check 'em out risk free. You should order both Primes and Ultras! Do a shootout and send the loser home! Somebody here actually did that with a couple of sub models, Prime Pinnacles and Ultra towers. He definitely got his money's worth out of their trial period.
I hear what you are saying, I love what you are saying, I agree but I think my days of buying 2,000 dollar speakers is over. I will say that it's only what 500 bucks difference between the Pinnacles and the Ultra so if I do that route I might as well go to the Ultras.


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I hear what you are saying, I love what you are saying, I agree but I think my days of buying 2,000 dollar speakers is over. I will say that it's only what 500 bucks difference between the Pinnacles and the Ultra so if I do that route I might as well go to the Ultras.


Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Well wait a sec, I missed that you said Pinnacles (or do you mean just Prime?). I haven't listened to the Pinnacles yet, but I'd consider them more Ultra than Prime. They share the same upgraded midrange and tweets. I'll bet they sound in the same league. The Pinnacle is a good speaker.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well wait a sec, I missed that you said Pinnacles (or do you mean just Prime?). I haven't listened to the Pinnacles yet, but I'd consider them more Ultra than Prime. They share the same upgraded midrange and tweets. I'll bet they sound in the same league. The Pinnacle is a good speaker.
Yeah, I was talking about Prime Pinnacle speakers. I have been salivating over them since they were released. I heard they are pretty awesome.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah, I was talking about Prime Pinnacle speakers. I have been salivating over them since they were released. I heard they are pretty awesome.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Okay, yeah. Yup. Agreed. The Pinnacles look pretty sweet. I'll bet you'd love 'em. The midrange used in those is the same type they use in the Ultras. I think they all share the same tweets, but those mids are where most of the magic happens. That and likely higher quality crossovers.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
Okay, yeah. Yup. Agreed. The Pinnacles look pretty sweet. I'll bet you'd love 'em. The midrange used in those is the same type they use in the Ultras. I think they all share the same tweets, but those mids are where most of the magic happens. That and likely higher quality crossovers.
Yeah maybe I'll spring for them someday. I mean I can, I just need to put my mind to it and save up. I really would like to hear these babies at some point.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
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Atlas-Athena

Junior Audioholic
My input on the Ultra Towers, only buy them if you can pull them OUT from your soundstage wall IE front wall a minimum of 2’ optimal 3’ + at least 18” from corners.. Those side 8” passive radiators indeed act like additional small subs..
Doing this creates a massive deep soundstage w/zero boomy bloat from trapped standing waves etc etc

I have mine setup 14’ apart 2.5’ out & 18” corners..
 

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