Parasound A51 owners chime in..

[Atlas-Athena]

My apologies for upsetting you by, um... "beating my chest"(?). I never said I don't think you actually hear a difference. I just don't think it is what you think it is, nor do I think you really understand placebo or expectation bias. Your last couple of posts demonstrate that.

Again I believe you hear a difference, I just don't think you would under more controlled conditions.

Not upset man.. You just come off a bit abrasive lol “Bright”
On 1 hand you say you don’t doubt I can hear it? Then backhand it w/
ogre said:
I don't think you'd be able to tell which was which in a proper dbt.

For an anti placebo guy, you don't seem to understand much about it...

 

[Pogre]

Not upset man.. You just come off a bit abrasive lol “Bright”
On 1 hand you say you don’t doubt I can hear it? Then backhand it w/
ogre said:
I don't think you'd be able to tell which was which in a proper dbt.

For an anti placebo guy, you don't seem to understand much about it...

I don't doubt you hear it. I DO doubt you'd be able to tell in a dbt. Is that offensive?

I'm just stating what I'm observing. You don't seem to understand much about it. There was a time not too long ago that I didn't either, and still don't entirely. I will say I thought I understood it, until I really dug in and read up some more about it.

It's pretty mind blowing really, how easily your (or my) brain can be influenced by different input from our other senses. A lot of science is designing experiments to get away from cognitive biases because we know our brains can give false positives when influenced by other stimuli.

Sighted testing for audio is notoriously unreliable. I'm unaware of a single double blind test performed for something like this where the participants could do any better than chance at guessing which was which. Here is an example of one such experiment that demonstrates what I'm talking about.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

Some of those participants were convinced they could easily detect the differences between a budget system and a high end system. Those differences disappeared when they tried it blind. I've never found an example that has shown otherwise, but if you can find one I'd be very interested to read about it.

FWIW I'm happy you're enjoying your new amp, it's a very good amp. This is a science based forum tho, and we're pretty big on evidence and testability. This forum's bread and butter is debunking audio myths. Your claims run counter to the evidence and general consensus around here so you should expect them to be challenged. You might want to read up on some of the work they do here...

 

[Atlas-Athena]

Science based huh? You could easily state your “Opinions” w/out the “Bias”

You contradict yourself & come off as a self indoctrinated know it all period.. Classic Inmate running the asylum..

 

[Pogre]

Science based huh? You could easily state your “Opinions” w/out the “Bias”

You contradict yourself & come off as a self indoctrinated know it all period.. Classic Inmate running the asylum..

How did I contradict myself?

 

[Pogre]

You seem to be getting angry and I don't understand why. You don't have to believe me. In fact I encourage you to look into it for yourself and reach your own conclusion. The info is all out there.

 

[Atlas-Athena]

Funny… You try adding your propaganda style of misleading masses by adding untruths as legitimate statements..

Progre ——This is a science based forum tho, and we're pretty big on evidence and testability. This forum's bread and butter is debunking audio myths. Your claims run counter to the evidence and general consensus around here so you should expect them to be challenged. You might want to read up on some of the work they do here...——

IE Quite a few members of your supposed flock seem to agree w/me on Emotiva sounding bright/anemic etc

 

[Andrein]

I think if doing blind testing, you need to go for it from the very beginning for this amp. Because once you did not like it no blind testing will prove the opposite(( It will be sitting in your head. This is also a part of our thinking.

But regarding Emotiva there are surely some objective scientific reasons why some people including me do not like the sound from Emotiva amp.

I don't doubt you hear it. I DO doubt you'd be able to tell in a dbt. Is that offensive?

I'm just stating what I'm observing. You don't seem to understand much about it. There was a time not too long ago that I didn't either, and still don't entirely. I will say I thought I understood it, until I really dug in and read up some more about it.

It's pretty mind blowing really, how easily your (or my) brain can be influenced by different input from our other senses. A lot of science is designing experiments to get away from cognitive biases because we know our brains can give false positives when influenced by other stimuli.

Sighted testing for audio is notoriously unreliable. I'm unaware of a single double blind test performed for something like this where the participants could do any better than chance at guessing which was which. Here is an example of one such experiment that demonstrates what I'm talking about.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

Some of those participants were convinced they could easily detect the differences between a budget system and a high end system. Those differences disappeared when they tried it blind. I've never found an example that has shown otherwise, but if you can find one I'd be very interested to read about it.

FWIW I'm happy you're enjoying your new amp, it's a very good amp. This is a science based forum tho, and we're pretty big on evidence and testability. This forum's bread and butter is debunking audio myths. Your claims run counter to the evidence and general consensus around here so you should expect them to be challenged. You might want to read up on some of the work they do here...

 

[Atlas-Athena]

You seem to be getting angry and I don't understand why. You don't have to believe me. In fact I encourage you to look into it for yourself and reach your own conclusion. The info is all out there.

Lol I’m over it guy… You obviously enjoy arguing more than I.. Cheers

 

[Atlas-Athena]

I think if doing blind testing, you need to go for it from the very beginning for this amp. Because once you did not like it no blind testing will prove the opposite(( It will be sitting in your head. This is also a part of our thinking.

But regarding Emotiva there are surely some objective scientific reasons why some people including me do not like the sound from Emotiva amp.

Exactly.. Well said sir!

 

[Pogre]

Funny… You try adding your propaganda style of misleading masses by adding untruths as legitimate statements..

Progre ——This is a science based forum tho, and we're pretty big on evidence and testability. This forum's bread and butter is debunking audio myths. Your claims run counter to the evidence and general consensus around here so you should expect them to be challenged. You might want to read up on some of the work they do here...——

IE Quite a few members of your supposed flock seem to agree w/me on Emotiva sounding bright/anemic etc

I don't have a "flock", I don't even know what you're talking about... I do, and have disagreed with a few members who also dismiss the evidence. I never said "everyone". There will always be differing opinions no matter where you go. I'm right about the general consensus tho. All you need to do is read a few articles and threads here...

I think if doing blind testing, you need to go for it from the very beginning for this amp. Because once you did not like it no blind testing will prove the opposite(( It will be sitting in your head. This is also a part of our thinking.

But regarding Emotiva there are surely some objective scientific reasons why some people including me do not like the sound from Emotiva amp.

You seem to not understand what "blind" testing is...

I'm open to the objective evidence. Do you have any? Lol.

Lol I’m over it guy… You obviously enjoy arguing more than I.. Cheers

I do enjoy honest debate, I'll admit it. That's kinda what posting on forums is for. I'm glad you're over it tho.

You did however, accuse me of contradicting myself..?

 

[Pogre]

Exactly.. Well said sir!

Adrien and I go back a long way. You're in good company... lol.

 

[Bonscott]

I think if doing blind testing, you need to go for it from the very beginning for this amp. Because once you did not like it no blind testing will prove the opposite(( It will be sitting in your head. This is also a part of our thinking.

But regarding Emotiva there are surely some objective scientific reasons why some people including me do not like the sound from Emotiva amp.

Why didn’t you like that power amplifier? “It was Some Objective Scientific Reason”. What else didn’t you like about it? “Sounded Bright”

 

[Atlas-Athena]

If you insist…

How did I contradict myself?

Progre —FWIW I'm happy you're enjoying your new amp, it's a very good amp.—-

personally I'd be putting that amp money into something more substantial to improve my audio.

IYou did however, accuse me of contradicting myself..?

On 1 hand you say you don’t doubt I can hear it? Then backhand it w/
ogre said:
I don't think you'd be able to tell which was which in a proper dbt.

For an anti placebo guy, you don't seem to understand much about it...Ogre..


I ignored all of your earlier posts, you sir are indeed toxic.. Not helpful but that annoying amplifier /buz/hum or squeak in an old chair

 

[Pogre]

Funny… You try adding your propaganda style of misleading masses by adding untruths as legitimate statements..

Progre ——This is a science based forum tho, and we're pretty big on evidence and testability. This forum's bread and butter is debunking audio myths. Your claims run counter to the evidence and general consensus around here so you should expect them to be challenged. You might want to read up on some of the work they do here...——

IE Quite a few members of your supposed flock seem to agree w/me on Emotiva sounding bright/anemic etc

And btw, you can read part of my "propaganda" in the header for the Audioholics site at the top of forum page. "Pursuing the truth in audio and video". Hence "debunking audio myths", and the scientific method is a big part of that pursuit. Gene (an engineer and the site owner) has incredibly sensitive equipment for measuring and an entire staff devoted to testing these claims. “Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans”. Again, you might wanna read up on some of the work they do here...

 

[Pogre]

If you insist…


Progre —FWIW I'm happy you're enjoying your new amp, it's a very good amp.—-




On 1 hand you say you don’t doubt I can hear it? Then backhand it w/
ogre said:
I don't think you'd be able to tell which was which in a proper dbt.

For an anti placebo guy, you don't seem to understand much about it...Ogre..

Yes. I typed those things. What's your point? I don't see any contradictions....

 

[Atlas-Athena]

My point exactly… Lol the last to know..

 

[Andrein]

@Pogre How do you know that I dont understand what blind testing is? I know what it is. I just did not have time or energy to do it. I plugged the amp in. Did not like the sound. Like half of the frequencies are not hearable and I think there was some hiss from the twitters too which was unusual. I checked the settings in avr, reran calibration many times still something weird. Disconnected the amp and avr by itself sounded good/normal. Connected another amp I had at the time and again the sound was as normal.

So I packed the amp and returned at my cost (£60 if I remember correctly). Then found Anthem amp bought it and it sounded "normal" again.

Yes I did not do the measurements and I dont know what exactly was wrong. But the difference was obvious and did not require any blind testing. Maybe amp had some defect. No idea. It should have sounded very similar to my avr and Monolith, Anthem amps I had but it did not.

 

[Pogre]

My point exactly… Lol the last to know..

You have no point. There are no contradictions and I've been entirely consistent. For some reason you've got a bee in your bonnet now and are just making unfounded accusations instead of addressing what's actually been said. I've offered evidence and reasoned argument, and you haven't even considered any of it. I'm pretty sure that's going to be transparent to anyone reading this thread tho, so I'm satisfied. If you don't want to be an honest interlocutor or have the actual debate that's fine, but I think we're done now. I enjoy honest debate. Cheers.

 

[Pogre]

@Pogre How do you know that I dont understand what blind testing is? I know what it is. I just did not have time or energy to do it. I plugged the amp in. Did not like the sound. Like half of the frequencies are not hearable and I think there was some hiss from the twitters too which was unusual. I checked the settings in avr, reran calibration many times still something weird. Disconnected the amp and avr by itself sounded good/normal. Connected another amp I had at the time and again the sound was as normal.

So I packed the amp and returned at my cost (£60 if I remember correctly). Then found Anthem amp bought it and it sounded "normal" again.

Yes I did not do the measurements and I dont know what exactly was wrong. But the difference was obvious and did not require any blind testing. Maybe amp had some defect. No idea. It should have sounded very similar to my avr and Monolith, Anthem amps I had but it did not.

I said you seemed to not know because you said this.

I think if doing blind testing, you need to go for it from the very beginning for this amp. Because once you did not like it no blind testing will prove the opposite(( It will be sitting in your head. This is also a part of our thinking.

It doesn't matter what you thought of it beforehand. If it's double blind and the conditions are set up correctly it can be objectively tested.

 

[Andrein]

I said you seemed to not know because you said this.


It doesn't matter what you thought of it beforehand. If it's double blind and the conditions are set up correctly it can be objectively tested.

Would you do a double blinded test between working and defective devices? Most likely Emotiva has poor quality control which results in this variation in quality. I think OP experienced the same thing. Sorry, we cant give you any evidence. You will have to believe. I agree on double blind tests between working similar devices. Like my Monolith vs Anthem. Would not be able to tell the difference. I think good copies of Emotiva might sound just as good. Probably