Monolith Five alternatives?

[Sound Epistemology]

I just saw mention of a Tonewinner the other day, don't know much about them. Why the Rythmik particularly? For $1500 you could almost have dual Hsu VTF-3 Mk5s. Curious why a 5ch amp instead of 3 particularly?

As to the Rythmik: I have just heard so many great things about them and if Im not mistaken they go considerably lower than the mk5 (correct me if Im wrong of course).

As to the 3ch vs 5 ch amp: I have five 4ohm speakers in my system and was just gonna future proof myself. Its also just such a better value $/channels once you go 5 and above.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

Curious why a 5ch amp instead of 3 particularly?

Its actually a bit crazy when you crunch the numbers.

$1249 for the 3 channel Mono
$150 more for two more channels.
Then $229 more for two more channels on the 7

Strangely disproportionate the way they price em

 

[lovinthehd]

So I am considering this option but I have always had a question about these amps. Is it true that no matter what the signal will be converted back to digital in the amp and then use the Crown internal DAC instead. If so, does that absolutely negate any benefit of having a high quality DAC upstream of the amp?

It doesn't bother me in any case but I've read that, and that it can be bypassed as well (which may just be the term stereo bypass, which is one of the setup options at least on gen 1, would have to look again at gen 2) ....would need to ask Crown for details to be sure. Lots of stuff goes thru multiple conversions without issue, tho. The one audible issue some have is with high sensitivity speakers to have some audible hiss, tho with 92dB speakers not an issue for me.

As to the Rythmik: I have just heard so many great things about them and if Im not mistaken they go considerably lower than the mk5 (correct me if Im wrong of course).

As to the 3ch vs 5 ch amp: I have five 4ohm speakers in my system and was just gonna future proof myself. Its also just such a better value $/channels once you go 5 and above.

I was more curious if you needed amps for all channels or had an avr where you could run the surrounds off the internal amps, altho low impedance speakers a more powerful amp is good (and the Crowns are rated to 2ohm, not many consumer amps are)....agreed on the more channel thing in one box for economy, which is why I might just go all 7 and leave the option for other processing options down the line. Monolith's pricing is a bit odd on the 2 to 7 range, agreed, which is why the 7 is the most attractive option

 

[Pogre]

Hsu do make very good subs and don't cost nearly as much. Very close in performance too. I have a pair of them in a very large room and they kill it.

Also, why the need for 5 channels necessarily? Low sensitivity speakers or..?

 

[Pogre]

As to the Rythmik: I have just heard so many great things about them and if Im not mistaken they go considerably lower than the mk5 (correct me if Im wrong of course).

Well, my VTF-3 MK5s are +/- 2 dB all the way down to 15 hz. I'm not sure how much lower than that would be "considerable", but humans don't hear much below 20 hz.

I think Rythmik make great subs, sure, but so do HSU. Performance-wise they're pretty much on the same level, imo. I do not believe that the FV15 is worth the extra $600, especially if it puts a strain on the budget and limits your options elsewhere. Btw, I feel the same about amplification. I think you can save a little there too. Do you really need an additional 5 channels of amplification? Why not just offload the front 3 and let your receiver power the surrounds?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What kind of system do you have? AVP or AVR?

 

[Kleinst]

Personally if the Monolith 7 isn't much more, getting an ATI AMP that could last hopefully 20 years, you probably wouldn't regret the extra couple hundred. But I get it if the budget is tight. It might make zero difference.

But if you get a real solid 3 channel for WAY cheaper, that's not a bad path too.

 

[Pogre]

Personally if the Monolith 7 isn't much more, getting an ATI AMP that could last hopefully 20 years, you probably wouldn't regret the extra couple hundred. But I get it if the budget is tight. It might make zero difference.

But if you get a real solid 3 channel for WAY cheaper, that's not a bad path too.

Yeah, if it can be finagled the Mono 7 is bang for buck a really good deal for what you get in power and build quality. That was my thinking when I got mine, but of course they were in stock and readily available. It looks like Monoprice is oos on the 7 right now too.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

Hsu do make very good subs and don't cost nearly as much. Very close in performance too. I have a pair of them in a very large room and they kill it.

Also, why the need for 5 channels necessarily? Low sensitivity speakers or..?

Yes. Speakers are 4ohm 88db/1w

Ill look more into hsu but they too are having backorder issues

 

[Sound Epistemology]

Do you really need an additional 5 channels of amplification? Why not just offload the front 3 and let your receiver power the surrounds?

I agree in principle its just that there doesnt seem to be a good 3 channel option that makes much sense financially. 3 channel monolith is only $150 less which would endlessly eat at me. If there were a 3 channel solution for about 1k I would seriously consider it.

 

[Verdinut]

I agree in principle its just that there doesnt seem to be a good 3 channel option that makes much sense financially. 3 channel monolith is only $150 less which would endlessly eat at me. If there were a 3 channel solution for about 1k I would seriously consider it.

You could get three Outlaw Monoblocks for $399 each. That would represent a good and wise outlay

 

[Pogre]

I agree in principle its just that there doesnt seem to be a good 3 channel option that makes much sense financially. 3 channel monolith is only $150 less which would endlessly eat at me. If there were a 3 channel solution for about 1k I would seriously consider it.

I totally understand your logic in going with the Mono 5, but there's the availability thing and your options are what they are. I'm putting myself in your shoes and I think what I'd do is wait til the 5th and see if the Mono 5 shows up. If not then plan b would be 3 Outlaw 2220s and (a pair of?) VTF-3 MK5s instead of a single FV15... That should still be close to budget and a second sub would be pretty sweet. A pair of MK5s will blow the doors off of a single FV15. Plus having some extra subwoofage will take some of the sting out of not getting your first choice. Of all the upgrades I've done, I think dual subs are right at the top of things that have made an actual impactful, audible improvement in my room.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

You could get three Outlaw Monoblocks for $399 each. That would represent a good and wise outlay

Yes these were my 1st choice some months back but then they pulled the bundle price so I went elsewhere. But that may be the best bet at this point. Literally could have had 3 on black friday for under 900 shipped so forking over 1,300 shipped is like .

But as you suggest...perhaps thats the best/only alternative

 

[Sound Epistemology]

I totally understand your logic in going with the Mono 5, but there's the availability thing and your options are what they are. I'm putting myself in your shoes and I think what I'd do is wait til the 5th and see if the Mono 5 shows up. If not then plan b would be 3 Outlaw 2220s and (a pair of?) VTF-3 MK5s instead of a single FV15... That should still be close to budget and a second sub would be pretty sweet. A pair of MK5s will blow the doors off of a single FV15. Plus having some extra subwoofage will take some of the sting out of not getting your first choice. Of all the upgrades I've done, I think dual subs are right at the top of things that have made an actual impactful, audible improvement in my room.

I like your line of reasoning here. That sounds like a decent idea

 

[Timforhifi]

I love hsu subs but to be fair the Fv15hp is a huge step up in performance below 30hz. You’ll see real 10-12hz output on Rythmik and 8-10db more output at 16hz. From 20-30hz it gets closer within 4-5db but Rythmik easily outperforms Vtf3 mk5. Even 2 Vtf3 wouldn’t match one Fv15hp down low.

if I were you I’d get something like outlaw 7000x at under $1000. They are underrating their power at 125x7. I’ve seen bench tests that show it to be within 20 watts of monolith 7x with all channels driven. Over 200 watts for outlaw as well with 2-3 channels and that’s at 8ohms. Both will give you plenty of power for dynamic bursts. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be able to tell a difference from the two. Now for a sub get something like monolith 15 or the new improved Rythmik Fv15hp/2. That new Rythmik has 1000 watt amp used on fv18 and better ds1520 driver used by fv25. I think the mono 15 is still a better performer though overall.

What avr do you use?

 

[Pogre]

I love hsu subs but to be fair the Fv15hp is a huge step up in performance below 30hz. You’ll see real 10-12hz output on Rythmik and 8-10db more output at 16hz. From 20-30hz it gets closer within 4-5db but Rythmik easily outperforms Vtf3 mk5. Even 2 Vtf3 wouldn’t match one Fv15hp down low.

You have some measurements or something to back this up? Here's what I can achieve in room with my Hsus.

A single FV15 will not outperform a pair of MK5s, and I don't think there's a huge difference even 1 on 1. There's no magic sauce in Rythmik subs that make them markedly superior.

 

[Auditor55]

So I am considering this option but I have always had a question about these amps. Is it true that no matter what the signal will be converted back to digital in the amp and then use the Crown internal DAC instead. If so, does that absolutely negate any benefit of having a high quality DAC upstream of the amp?

Do you have an AVR?

 

[shadyJ]

You have some measurements or something to back this up? Here's what I can achieve in room with my Hsus.

View attachment 48248

A single FV15 will not outperform a pair of MK5s, and I don't think there's a huge difference even 1 on 1. There's no magic sauce in Rythmik subs that make them markedly superior.

These are all variable tuned subs, and the Rythmik subs have deeper tuning frequencies than the Hsu subs, so it probably could produce a lot more output than the Hsu subs below the Hsu's tuning frequencies. However those tuning frequencies are so deep that it scarcely matters, and when you do tune a sub that deep, it gives up output. Also, the deeper you tune a sub, the sooner it will run into port turbulence. I would guess that the HV15HP has an advantage over the VTF-3 MK5 below 20 Hz, but not so much above that point. Even two VTF-3s would probably have a difficult time matching an FV15HP below 16Hz. On the other hand, two VTF-3s would smoke an FV15HP above that point.

 

[Benni777]

OSD make a 5 channel amp. No idea on quality but seems like the few people in net world that have bought it are happy with it.

Amazon.com: OSD Nero XA5180 Class H 240W 5x Channel Home Theater Amplifier RCA XLR Inputs, Audiophile Class H Technology : Everything Else

Amazon.com: OSD Nero XA5180 Class H 240W 5x Channel Home Theater Amplifier RCA XLR Inputs, Audiophile Class H Technology : Everything Else

www.amazon.com

 

[Timforhifi]

These are all variable tuned subs, and the Rythmik subs have deeper tuning frequencies than the Hsu subs, so it probably could produce a lot more output than the Hsu subs below the Hsu's tuning frequencies. However those tuning frequencies are so deep that it scarcely matters, and when you do tune a sub that deep, it gives up output. Also, the deeper you tune a sub, the sooner it will run into port turbulence. I would guess that the HV15HP has an advantage over the VTF-3 MK5 below 20 Hz, but not so much above that point. Even two VTF-3s would probably have a difficult time matching an FV15HP below 16Hz. On the other hand, two VTF-3s would smoke an FV15HP above that point.

I totally agree from 40-100hz a pair of Vtf3 would have 3-4db more max output than a single Fv15hp.

I personally owned Vtf3 mk5 when it first came out 6-7years ago. Loved it. I had at the time a pair of Fv15hp and I could easily hear a difference when I played at higher levels. Down lower though or even mid spl Vtf3 was good. Vtf3 just struggles when pushed, especially if you plug a port. You’ll definitely get chuffing but setup right Vtf3 is great sub.

Last Christmas I bought my son a pair of mono 12 to replace that Vtf3 mk5 that I gave to him. He really wanted duals and hsu was unavailable. We tried one mono 12 vs Vtf3 and mono 12 shakes room better and has deeper sound. The mid bass though on Vtf3 has more slam. Now 2 mono 12 made things so much better.