Monolith Five alternatives?

[Pogre]

These are all variable tuned subs, and the Rythmik subs have deeper tuning frequencies than the Hsu subs, so it probably could produce a lot more output than the Hsu subs below the Hsu's tuning frequencies. However those tuning frequencies are so deep that it scarcely matters, and when you do tune a sub that deep, it gives up output. Also, the deeper you tune a sub, the sooner it will run into port turbulence. I would guess that the HV15HP has an advantage over the VTF-3 MK5 below 20 Hz, but not so much above that point. Even two VTF-3s would probably have a difficult time matching an FV15HP below 16Hz. On the other hand, two VTF-3s would smoke an FV15HP above that point.

Right. The MK5 has it where it counts. I don't think the difference between 12 hz and 15 hz is going to be audible for most anyone, let alone how much source material is there with bass that deep anyway? It's not enough to justify an extra $600 for me. Not when I could get a pair of MK5s on the same (or similar) budget.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

What kind of system do you have? AVP or AVR?

Sorry for the delay I didnt see this yesterday.

What kind of system do you have? AVP or AVR?

Sorry for the delay. I have a Denon 4308ci with 4 ohm buchards (spelling?) all around.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sorry for the delay I didnt see this yesterday.

Sorry for the delay. I have a Denon 4308ci with 4 ohm buchards (spelling?) all around.

So the speakers are 4 ohms with a recommended power of 40 watts to 200 watts?

How loud do you listen? How far away from the speakers do you sit? Would you say typical loud or extremely dangerous loud?

 

[shadyJ]

I totally agree from 40-100hz a pair of Vtf3 would have 3-4db more max output than a single Fv15hp.

I personally owned Vtf3 mk5 when it first came out 6-7years ago. Loved it. I had at the time a pair of Fv15hp and I could easily hear a difference when I played at higher levels. Down lower though or even mid spl Vtf3 was good. Vtf3 just struggles when pushed, especially if you plug a port. You’ll definitely get chuffing but setup right Vtf3 is great sub.

Last Christmas I bought my son a pair of mono 12 to replace that Vtf3 mk5 that I gave to him. He really wanted duals and hsu was unavailable. We tried one mono 12 vs Vtf3 and mono 12 shakes room better and has deeper sound. The mid bass though on Vtf3 has more slam. Now 2 mono 12 made things so much better.

That is strange since the Mono 12" doesn't have significantly more extension than the VTF-3.

 

[Timforhifi]

The denon 4308 is a very powerful avr and I wouldn’t worry about an amp. The 4308 is more powerful then the new denon 8500. I want to say it was over 300w at 4 ohms. Around 180x2 at 8ohms. Sound and vision bench test over a decade ago

 

[Timforhifi]

That is strange since the Mono 12" doesn't have significantly more extension than the VTF-3.

maybe mono 12 just plays louder with less distortion. Just doesn’t make bad sounds when pushed. Vtf3 can get upset with wrong content.

 

[Pogre]

maybe mono 12 just plays louder with less distortion. Just doesn’t make bad sounds when pushed. Vtf3 can get upset with wrong content.

Your experience and my experience don't line up at all. The only time I've heard mine misbehave was that ridiculous deep tone at the beginning of Edge of Tomorrow that drops down to single digit frequencies with power and even then it was just port chuff. 5 years I've had these and never once heard them distort, bottom out or get "upset", whatever that means...

 

[lovinthehd]

The VTF-3 Mk5 has been out 6-7 years already? Time flies....

@Sound Epistemology which Buchardts (I assume) do you have? https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/passive-speakers

 

[Timforhifi]

Vtf3 is a great subwoofer an we’ve liked it for many years too. The chuffing or distortion is mostly when you ask for too much from the sub. Which we have been known to do a few times. Mono 12 just won’t make a bad sound. In all fairness the Fv15hp in 12hz tune chuffs as well and makes unpleasant noises at higher spl. I think you can make most subs experience this.

 

[Pogre]

Vtf3 is a great subwoofer an we’ve liked it for many years too. The chuffing or distortion is mostly when you ask for too much from the sub. Which we have been known to do a few times. Mono 12 just won’t make a bad sound. In all fairness the Fv15hp in 12hz tune chuffs as well and makes unpleasant noises at higher spl. I think you can make most subs experience this.

I'm wondering just how hot you run your subs because I have a 6000^3 room, like it loud and can rattle pictures off the walls with no audible distortion. I also have a lot of music with very deep bass and I've never heard any of what you describe aside from chuffing with single digit frequencies. How did you integrate your subs? Do you have a way to measure what's going on? Something is not adding up.

 

[Timforhifi]

In that room he’s running a marantz 7011. He uses umik with rew as well to test. The last time we talked about it he was saying the two mono 12 were hitting 120+dB at 20hz. His room is about 15x17x9.
I don’t think vtf3 is a bad sub at all but when pushed to those higher levels with deeper bass it makes bad noises. I’ve heard it with my own ears for many years. He likes bass and he’s around 6-8db hot.

A lot of people move up to vtf15 to get less port noise at lower frequencies. To also get a lot more output down low. If you play mid to low spl from 90-100db really won’t matter as much. At reference with a hot tune when content asks for 15hz, and your sub is hot, lesser subs will show. If you play loud get more subs or more capable ones. I just went through trying out a few different psa subs. They aren’t a good sounding sub when pushed. Chuffing and clacks will occur throughout a movie. To be fair though they were just v1512. I’d easily recommend Vtf3 over that sub.

 

[Pogre]

I don’t think vtf3 is a bad sub at all but when pushed to those higher levels with deeper bass it makes bad noises.

You keep saying that, but in 5 years I've never heard any bad sounds come out of mine.

I have spent a lot of time dialing them in tho and I don't run them hot (2 dB bump after calibration), but I do crank the volume with bass heavy material from time to time. I actually own these subs and know them very, very well. What you're describing just simply does not happen here. At all. With the exception of some port chuff with single digit frequencies at very high volume I have never heard a hint of distortion or bad sound from them. Ever. Just lots of clean, powerful undistorted bass.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

The VTF-3 Mk5 has been out 6-7 years already? Time flies....

@Sound Epistemology which Buchardts (I assume) do you have? https://buchardtaudio.com/collections/passive-speakers

S400. Five of em

 

[lovinthehd]

S400. Five of em

Have heard such nice things about those, I can somewhat understand the desire to give 'em an amp . I've used a variety of speakers with and without amps on avrs (including some Denons of similar power to yours. but think yours is a bit more powerful) and these days I just can't justify it generally, it really only comes in handy when I'm listening at levels I shouldn't (but did plenty of times in my younger days)

 

[Sound Epistemology]

Have heard such nice things about those, I can somewhat understand the desire to give 'em an amp . I've used a variety of speakers with and without amps on avrs (including some Denons of similar power to yours. but think yours is a bit more powerful) and these days I just can't justify it generally, it really only comes in handy when I'm listening at levels I shouldn't (but did plenty of times in my younger days)

Do you think a few crown 1502 would do em justice?

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you think a few crown 1502 would do em justice?

I can't tell any audible difference between the XLS amps vs others I've used vs my avrs (I also have an Onkyo and a Sony plus the two Denons) or my other amps (within their limits of course)....so I think it would do fine. FWIW I am not a guy who gets excited about different amps' "sound" which I think is mostly due the old days of tube amps when they could be quite different (vs solid state), or poor comparison techniques or very particular speakers (perhaps, never had one that sounded different on one vs another, but supposedly it does affect some out there). They ain't the prettiest boxes, but good value for the power. YMMV.

 

[Sound Epistemology]

UPDATE: Monoprice seems to have their entire line back in stock. Suppose Im gonna pick up a FIVE and then get my fv15hp for now. Suppose Ill follow up with a second in a few months once $ allows.

Just cant stop thinking I should get 2x fv15hp and just use the 4308 amps. I dunno. I hate choices

 

[lovinthehd]

UPDATE: Monoprice seems to have their entire line back in stock. Suppose Im gonna pick up a FIVE and then get my fv15hp for now. Suppose Ill follow up with a second in a few months once $ allows.

Just cant stop thinking I should get 2x fv15hp and just use the 4308 amps. I dunno. I hate choices

Well if you do get the amp and don't find it changes things a lot....join the club. I remember long ago when I went from a 70wpc receiver (2ch kind) to 250wpc....it was better but not like all those guys said it was gonna be with the night and day differences and such I'd go dual subs over an amp myself, or more.

 

[Pogre]

UPDATE: Monoprice seems to have their entire line back in stock. Suppose Im gonna pick up a FIVE and then get my fv15hp for now. Suppose Ill follow up with a second in a few months once $ allows.

Just cant stop thinking I should get 2x fv15hp and just use the 4308 amps. I dunno. I hate choices

I'll tell ya, in my opinion, you'll get a lot more audibly from a 2nd subwoofer than you will an amp. I'm with HD. I've never noticed any differences between the various amps and avrs I've had through my system, but dual subs really woke everything up in surprising ways. If you're not running into distortion or having problems with overheating I'd do subs first then get the amp.

PS, I think a pair of HSUs will offer you pretty much equal performance down to 20 hz, but the FV15 is a very nice sub and is a li'l easier on the eyes.

 

[Kleinst]

I would agree with these guys and get the best sub you can or you will try to upgrade later (check out the other posts of all these people that are responding to you

When it's time to get the AMP, if the Monolith 7 is within a couple hundred of the 5. Get it. Just my opinion. Always nice to have extra channels and if one of them breaks but the others are still running it's like insurance so you ALWAYS have AT LEAST 3 working 200 WPC channels. That was my thought process but it's simply one person's opinion

Maybe if you buy the SUB or SUBS now, you can be on the lookout for someone dumping their AMP or a huge sale comes (even monoprice puts them on sale every now and then... Alleged B stock) and you can snag it when it's cheaper